Canadian Health Care after activating US Visa (split)

[NykahDeah 71]

4 minutes ago, ice-qube said:

Semantics is part of what *law* is all about--the meanings of words.

 

This statement is substantially, if not entirely false.

 

OK, and that is a good strategy all things considered, but it is pretty much beside the point of the actual question.

OK I have no idea how you did this, so cool, but the false statement is not false:

 

https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/temporary-i-551-stamps-and-mrivs

 

When you "activate" your immigration visa you are given a temporary I-551, AKA a permanent resident status of the USA.

[ice-qube 649]

1 minute ago, NykahDeah said:

OK I have no idea how you did this, so cool, but the false statement is not false:

 

https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/temporary-i-551-stamps-and-mrivs

 

When you "activate" your immigration visa you are given a temporary I-551, AKA a permanent resident status of the USA.

Yes, that part is not false. The part that was false was "which technically means you're no longer a Canadian resident". That's, at best, only partially true.

 

 

[ice-qube 649]

1 minute ago, ice-qube said:

Yes, that part is not false. The part that was false was "which technically means you're no longer a Canadian resident". That's, at best, only partially true.

 

 

BTW, to quote different sentences from a post, highlight the words and then click "quote selection". 😃

 

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

4 minutes ago, Danii said:

@ice-qube @NykahDeah (not sure who else was interested in knowing) but I just called service Ontario/OHIP to clarify. My call got transferred a few time so I guess even their general team isn't sure. Eventually someone asked their supervisor, and they said that as soon as I cross and intend to live in the US permanently/for the foreseeable future, I'm considered a non resident and no longer eligible for coverage, even if I travel back to Canada the same day. I think the key word here was permanently, as that may imply that my Ontario address would no longer be my primary one? I'm not sure, I should've clarified 😂

@ice-qube @Danii @NykahDeah

 

You all make excellent points and what @ice-qube has brought up is something I have wondered for a while as well. This notion that you lose your healthcare the moment you cross the border is a notion that is rampant on VJ, and I have taken that for for all practical purposes to be true, and make my decisions based on it, while I have at the back of mind wondered about the nuances of it. I remember reading about a grace period of 3 months, but it wasn't conclusive.

 

@Danii You and I seems to think alike, as I called them too. LOL. I think I had a little better luck than you as I had a more detailed explanation.

 

So in the context of Ontario:

 

1. You are supposed to call Service Ontario and let them know when you are moving permanently to the US. You are moving permanently, so you are not a resident of Ontario and hence will lose your healthcare.

2. You don't necessarily lose it the moment you cross. You can cross and return to your home here in Canada and still have healthcare, as in Ontario's eyes, you are still a resident here until you permanently move.

3. You do have a grace period of 3 months from the date you declare to OHIP that you have moved permanently. This is because if you move to another province, it takes 3 months for their healthcare to kick in, so they have made the provision for you to have coverage until then.

4. You losing your healthcare is triggered by that call to Service Ontario declaring that you are moving permanently. If you don't call, you won't necessarily lose it, but being a permanent resident of US and making that your primary residence, does make you ineligible for OHIP claims, and should you use it after moving and it is found out  that Canada is not your primary residence anymore, you will get a bill.

 

 

[NykahDeah 71]

2 minutes ago, From_CAN_2_US said:

@ice-qube @Danii @NykahDeah

 

You all make excellent points and what @ice-qube has brought up is something I have wondered for a while as well. This notion that you lose your healthcare the moment you cross the border is a notion that is rampant on VJ, and I have taken that for for all practical purposes to be true, and make my decisions based on it, while I have at the back of mind wondered about the nuances of it. I remember reading about a grace period of 3 months, but it wasn't conclusive.

 

@Danii You and I seems to think alike, as I called them too. LOL. I think I had a little better luck than you as I had a more detailed explanation.

 

So in the context of Ontario:

 

1. You are supposed to call Service Ontario and let them know when you are moving permanently to the US. You are moving permanently, so you are not a resident of Ontario and hence will lose your healthcare.

2. You don't necessarily lose it the moment you cross. You can cross and return to your home here in Canada and still have healthcare, as in Ontario's eyes, you are still a resident here until you permanently move.

3. You do have a grace period of 3 months from the date you declare to OHIP that you have moved permanently. This is because if you move to another province, it takes 3 months for their healthcare to kick in, so they have made the provision for you to have coverage until then.

4. You losing your healthcare is triggered by that call to Service Ontario declaring that you are moving permanently. If you don't call, you won't necessarily lose it, but being a permanent resident of US and making that your primary residence, does make you ineligible for OHIP claims, and should you use it after moving and it is found out  that Canada is not your primary residence anymore, you will get a bill.

 

 

Thanks everyone! Great information and debate.

 

This was fun, you guys helped pass at least 2 hours! What else can we research instead of my constant refresh of the CEAC status??

 

 

[SalishSea 17,837]

1 hour ago, ice-qube said:

A snowbird, many and perhaps most, may cross on a visitor visa. However, *some* snowbirds also have a US Green Card. Therefore, such a person does not cross on a visitor visa. Some of them maintain their "primary" residence (tax purposes) in Canada while also keeping their Green Card status, spending time in the United States each year at a "temporary" residence. In some cases, they may even have to pay taxes in both places. Thus the question. How does a snowbird in such a scenario keep their health benefits, because they certainly do have them, if the claim is correct that merely going to a POE and declaring residence of the US makes you lose the benefits automatically? This is not consistent.

Keep in mind that green card holders who appear to live abroad risk losing their permanent residence status.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Jorgedig

[ice-qube 649]

3 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

Keep in mind that green card holders who appear to live abroad risk losing their permanent residence status.

There is no actual rule that Green Card holders cannot live in two places, per se. The problem occurs when the Green Card holder is out of the country for more than 1 year, but snowbirds don't usually have such a problem; they split their time between Canada and the US. 

[mam521 2,063]

1 hour ago, NykahDeah said:

I think it's semantics.. if you are immigrating to US you're declaring you're now a US resident, which technically means you're no longer a Canadian resident, however if you haven't established a domicile in the US and return to Canada (now you're technically a visitor of Canada) can Ontario deny you coverage? Well.. according to all the requirements for being eligible, yes, but you didn't give up your Ontario health card, so it's more of a catch me if you can rather than an instant denial of coverage since you still have a residence in Ontario, potentially a job, etc... Not sure there's an easy answer here... since there are all these grey zones in the system.

 

But what I read online is immigrating, then turning around and coming back, you're technically a visitor. Not sure how that works and I didn't want to test it, so I'm trying to close off as much as I can in prep for the Visa so I don't have to think too hard about it.

 

 

 

 

As part of the DS-260 process, the petitioner must establish domicile or provide sufficient evidence to indicate that once the I-551 is issued, that the beneficiary will be headed across the border as a LPR for the case to proceed.  CBP and CBSA share information.  It is known when that I-551 is activated in both countries.  

 

Also note that there has been a crackdown on "medical tourism" in Canada.  If utilizing services which you are not entitled to because you've become a LPR of the US, you can be billed at full cost and will be expected to repay those costs.  Even as a Canadian resident, if you incur medical expenses outside of your home province, you can be charged for that care.  

[Ontarkie 14,228]

~~Off topic comments from the DS-5535 thread have been split off to help keep things in one place~~

 

 

Mod Hate off

 

The only Province that I know of that allows something like 30 days to still use the Canadian Health care system in BC. It has something to do with that fact that you pay into it in BC and you pay ahead 30 days. 

 

Yes once you cross the border and get your visa endorsed you are tell health Canada you are leaving and setting up residency somewhere else. It is no different then moving from One Province to the other. There is a wait time and an enrollment process from going to one proving to the other.

Snowbirds are nothing more then visitors to the US, they  can own a house they can come every year and stay the whole allotted time. It just not the same as arriving at the border with your stuff telling them you're moving to the US to live permanently. Two completely different scenarios. 

 

Yes they are cracking down on health care fraud. How long will it take for them to connect the dots who knows. But remember when you do your last income tax and you mark your exit days they will have a record made by you the day you left.

 

Another thing, any child tax (used to be called baby bonus) or GST (what ever they call it ) you also are no longer eligible for it.  Say you cross on the 5 if a payment comes any time after that send it back. Send it back each and every time they send you one. We have had more then on member on here who ended up with a big bill because they didn't send the checks back or kept the direct deposit. 

[Danii 312]

On 1/11/2022 at 1:22 PM, From_CAN_2_US said:

3. You do have a grace period of 3 months from the date you declare to OHIP that you have moved permanently. This is because if you move to another province, it takes 3 months

I randomly remembered this conversation today and was wondering if you can elaborate what OHIP told you about this grace period? Do I have 3 months to tell them or will they still cover me 3 months after crossing/establishing US residency without getting billed? (or both? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I just can't wrap my mind around this for some reason tonight 😂) I ask because I still have a lot of pending test results and wonder if my family dr would still be able to discuss them with me

Edited January 26, 2022 by Danii

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

8 hours ago, Danii said:

I randomly remembered this conversation today and was wondering if you can elaborate what OHIP told you about this grace period? Do I have 3 months to tell them or will they still cover me 3 months after crossing/establishing US residency without getting billed? (or both? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I just can't wrap my mind around this for some reason tonight 😂) I ask because I still have a lot of pending test results and wonder if my family dr would still be able to discuss them with me

The way I understood it, you have 3 months of grace coverage after the date of leaving as declared to Service Ontario.

 

So if you move on Feb 1, and you call Service Ontario on Jan 28 to inform them you are leaving Canada on Feb 1, then you have coverage until April 30.

 

But since you are sure you are seeing your doctor, perhaps best to call Service Ontario and confirm.