MENA/USA marriages

[sarah and hicham 3]

Things to give up.

We've had this talk and many more. He gave up smoking I gave up alcohol. I offered the "we can do it in moderation" option, but he said a venomus "no". Explaining I wouldn't like him if he became someone else because of drinking that it's black and white.

Among the list:

- farting (which yeah right we're humans and I had all brothers growing up so plsssssssss.)

- pork (which I don't eat much anyways, but he did say I could if I liked just don't serve him any.)

- non-modest clothing (which I don't wear anymore because I'm no longer a twig with T&A. I've grown to accept my woman body & wear age apropriate clothing.)

- being alone with male friends (I try to watch that now even. I understand this because I am the same way. I don't want him alone with female friends.)

- Alcohol (ok it's better for my body and child rearing.)

- Smoking (That one's his. I can't live with a habitual smoker. I am more relaxed though since I went to Egypt and saw how shisha is ingrained in the culture. He can bring it over as long as it's not habitual stinking up the house.)

- Giving up having children (I feel this one is going to make or break us. The debate is still swirling on this one. I've read articles that in Egypt they function by associating their social status on how good a muslim they are. If the father isn't raising the children muslims then his family is looked down upon and scorned. Even so far as people lose jobs, people in stores won't sell products to the families, ect. At first we wanted children and I agreed to raise them islamic in my ignorance to please him thinking I had an understanding of Islam from reading nine books at the library and the Quran. I didn't agree however that the daughters wear the head thing because I know not all muslims do. We even disagree on names for future children. He wants arabic ones and I like western ones. The western ones he's chosen are modern arabic ones with religious context. One day I told him, "I don't know if I want kids." Now he says, "Lets not have kids. If you couldn't have kids I would still want you over all the kids in the world." It's a sore topic because I like to know we have the option when he's saying after marriage "nope". As optimistic as we like to be we may not stay together because the realty is we are having espeically different view points on the kids issues. From raising them here to raising them there, to what to name them, to how to raise them, to what schools they go to. And he doesn't like the idea of going to a marriage counselor about it. I don't know what to do and it's not like I have all the time in the world but at least a few more years. For now we have agreed that once we get through this immigration process, and we've achieved all we want to have a stable life then we'll reconsider the children issue. That gives us at most 5 years time.)

When polling successful (long marriages) married people before I got married I asked what makes it last so long. Among the things mentioned in every group was compatability, and compromise.

The kid problem comes up here time and time again. Honestly I can't understand how people commit to marriage and file for a visa if they haven't decided or been able to agree on so many things. For us it was very important to talk about everything and make sure we weren't going to have any bumps in the road about children. We both want kids and both want to wait several years and are both very happy that we talked about those things and agreed before he got here. It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids (which is usually when the women already has some and is too old to have more) I think that is a big red flag.

Edited September 9, 2007 by sarah and hicham

[Hassan /mony 0]

Things to give up.

We've had this talk and many more. He gave up smoking I gave up alcohol. I offered the "we can do it in moderation" option, but he said a venomus "no". Explaining I wouldn't like him if he became someone else because of drinking that it's black and white.

Among the list:

- farting (which yeah right we're humans and I had all brothers growing up so plsssssssss.)

- pork (which I don't eat much anyways, but he did say I could if I liked just don't serve him any.)

- non-modest clothing (which I don't wear anymore because I'm no longer a twig with T&A. I've grown to accept my woman body & wear age apropriate clothing.)

- being alone with male friends (I try to watch that now even. I understand this because I am the same way. I don't want him alone with female friends.)

- Alcohol (ok it's better for my body and child rearing.)

- Smoking (That one's his. I can't live with a habitual smoker. I am more relaxed though since I went to Egypt and saw how shisha is ingrained in the culture. He can bring it over as long as it's not habitual stinking up the house.)

- Giving up having children (I feel this one is going to make or break us. The debate is still swirling on this one. I've read articles that in Egypt they function by associating their social status on how good a muslim they are. If the father isn't raising the children muslims then his family is looked down upon and scorned. Even so far as people lose jobs, people in stores won't sell products to the families, ect. At first we wanted children and I agreed to raise them islamic in my ignorance to please him thinking I had an understanding of Islam from reading nine books at the library and the Quran. I didn't agree however that the daughters wear the head thing because I know not all muslims do. We even disagree on names for future children. He wants arabic ones and I like western ones. The western ones he's chosen are modern arabic ones with religious context. One day I told him, "I don't know if I want kids." Now he says, "Lets not have kids. If you couldn't have kids I would still want you over all the kids in the world." It's a sore topic because I like to know we have the option when he's saying after marriage "nope". As optimistic as we like to be we may not stay together because the realty is we are having espeically different view points on the kids issues. From raising them here to raising them there, to what to name them, to how to raise them, to what schools they go to. And he doesn't like the idea of going to a marriage counselor about it. I don't know what to do and it's not like I have all the time in the world but at least a few more years. For now we have agreed that once we get through this immigration process, and we've achieved all we want to have a stable life then we'll reconsider the children issue. That gives us at most 5 years time.)

When polling successful (long marriages) married people before I got married I asked what makes it last so long. Among the things mentioned in every group was compatability, and compromise.

The kid problem comes up here time and time again. Honestly I can't understand how people commit to marriage and file for a visa if they haven't decided or been able to agree on so many things. For us it was very important to talk about everything and make sure we weren't going to have any bumps in the road about children. We both want kids and both want to wait several years and are both very happy that we talked about those things and agreed before he got here. It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids (which is usually when the women already has some and is too old to have more) I think that is a big red flag.

we have talked about the kid issue to because I already have kids and i asked him if that bother him, he said no, i asked him about adopting children, and i have not hear any thing back on that issue. but he did say that he would be so glad to be a father to my kids . as far as smoking or drinking goes we don't have that problem because never one of us do it. my ex was a bad drinker and a very violent man, so for the longest time i did not want to be near men, but it all changed when i meet Hassan Salhi, he stole my heart. as far as by dressing goes biggest part of the time i am nursing uniforms and he likes that, but there are times on my day offs i wear tank tops and shorts and he has no problem with it. I asked him when i come to visit him if would be okay if a guy coworker could come with me on the plane , because my parents cannot, they are taking care of by eldery grandmother, and Hassan respons to that idea was no no , no male coworkers come because i don't want to share you with him when you only have a short time to be here with me and my family. I told him that was okay , because i wanted to spent time with him alone too. mony

[LaL 418]

It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids... I think that is a big red flag.

My husband does not want kids, neither do I. Never saw that as any kind of a red flag despite what some may consider a cultural norm. Mine breaks the mold I guess

[Aymerlu 3]

It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids... I think that is a big red flag.

My husband does not want kids, neither do I. Never saw that as any kind of a red flag despite what some may consider a cultural norm. Mine breaks the mold I guess

My husband does not want kids of his own either. He has always said my kids are his since their biological father really has nothing to do with them. Actually none of his brothers or sisters want kids either. I'll have to ask what's up with that.

[coolred38 0]

Speaking from my personal experience married to an arab and living here for 20 years I find that a great many men from here who marry foreign women present oneself to that woman before marriage and then present something totally different after marriage. Most women who meet their arab boyfriend meet him in another country other than his own...and so they see the person he is when his family and friends are not watching him...this means that he might drink, smoke, play the field so to speak while abroad...but once he's back home he's back to being the strict Muslim guy everyone knows...this also means that much of the fun and many of the things he accepted his girlfriend to do previously no longer is accepted now that she is his wife. How many foreign women here are living miserable lives because the guy they married in their country is not the guy they are married to now....he bears little resemblence and suddenly finds the ability to compromise impossible. It happens and its very sad. Thats not true of all marriages Im sure but far too many to make one be anything other than jaded about the whole process.

To the ladies here who say that they have discussed it all before marriage and its all settled....I sincerely and truly hope that it all works out for you...a happy marriage is hard to come by these days it seems....but always be aware that people are not always the same after marriage as before....and thats particularly true of Arabs.

Also for the poster that said "he prefers i wear hijab/niqab but is leaving it up to me"....if he has made it known that he prefers you to wear it then chances are it will be a hot issue between you until you do wear it....he means what he says...he wants you to wear it....the choice may be yours right up until the moment its not....not saying its true for everyone but Ive seen it happen time and time again.

One more thing...Arab men are extremely jealous creatures....usually that jealousy comes out at the most unlikely of places...smile at the guy bagging your groceries and the fight could be on....mention a guys name that you ran into and had a chat with that day with and the fireworks might fly...seriously you never know what sets off the jealousy radar....and to make it even more rediculous...you are not allowed to be jealous of him because he is a man and can do as he pleases.....you probably think this a bitter ex speaking(and to some extent your right) but Im also speaking from the experience of other women speaking to me over a span of 20 years...always the same stories....always the same kind of beginning and same miserable outcome.

What Im saying is that you need to learn about his culture inside and out....learn about his family life and what is accepted within it and what wasnt....learn about his religion because after marriage it will be much more important to him then it was before marriage....and totally learn about his feelings regarding kids cause thats the huge hangup for many mixed religious/culture couples. Do your homework ladies....do extra credit assignments too if you can cause you need all the info you can get and then some.

I hope every single marriage mentioned on this site is a successful happy committed one....with trust, patience, and compromise the 3 leading characteristics....God bless every union and keep a watchful eye over you all.....

[chasnik 0]

[quote name='OlivianWaleed' date='Sep 8 2007, 11:30 PM' post='1179205'

When polling successful (long marriages) married people before I got married I asked what makes it last so long. Among the things mentioned in every group was compatability, and compromise.

Honestly I dont think compatability is a big helper in staying together....if it was you wouldnt so much need compromise. The reason alot of those people are married 30,40,50 years is because they got married for life. Do these couples fight...of course, but they dont break up over it. They talk and work and move forward in the marriage. My parents are as different as night and day. My mom is social and loves to have family around...loves animals, my dad is a loner and would walk a mile out of his way to kick an animal. This is their 40th yr anniversary. When I asked my parents for advice and my granparents who just celebrated 62 yrs they essentially said the same thing. Love isnt that flash in the pan butterfly feeling even though thats where it starts. Love is family suppers...car trips where everyone throws up in the car...spilled milk and dirty diapers. How many couples do you hear that divorce because of I love you but Im not in love with you anymore....

[Caladan 19]

I think there's a tendency for everyone, male or female, no matter where they're from, to have a default idea of what married life looks like based on their own experiences growing up. Little things, like how people argue, or whose responsibility it is to wash the dishes or do the laundry, or the amount of deference a husband is supposed to show his wife, or who drives when you go out. And it's stuff that might not show up while dating, because it's like people have a space in their head about how a boyfriend or girlfriend is supposed to act, but a different space for how a wife or husband is supposed to act. It happens with everyone, but when two people are from the same culture they don't notice as much.

And long distance makes this worse. Because when you visit, even if you rack up ten visits before marrying, someone is always on vacation. Vacations have different rules than the rest of life. You spend a little more. You're not worried about dividing up chores or going to work or any of that.

And if his idea of what a wife does is very different from what yours is, it's going to be a hard time. And it's not because anyone's wrong, really.

[bhajishah 4]

no prblem here. it helped that i was muslim before i got hooked up

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Wow, what have I given up since my husband's arrival.... ?

1. Housework - He pretty much handles that since he's there at the house waiting on his GC anyway.

2. Cooking - He cooks too since he's there and I'm not (He cooks better than me anyway hehehe)

3. Worrying about what my kids are learing at the babysitter's - He picks them up from school and helps them with their homework and all that stuff before I get home from work in the evening.

4. Being lonely - That's pretty self-explainatory I think

5. Wondering when he'll get the visa.... well, I've exchanged that for wondering when he'll get the GC lol

6. I almost forgot the BIG one!! DRIVING!! He takes me everywhere I want to go and I haven't had to get behind the wheel in over four months!!!

Other than that I haven't really given up anything for him. I didn't have male friends before marriage because it's against my religion, I already covered to my own satisfaction because of my religious preference, I've always liked food from different cultures so that's not a big change. We pretty much have everything in common so it's been a pretty easy adjustment IMO.... I guess you could say we're pretty boring

[jade2004 0]

I think all marriages (MENA or not) requires a lot of compromise from both people...but, the key factor i think is respect for the other person. It isn't about changing the person that I am inside, but being respectful to the others cultures and traditions...Little things get Moe really excited...the fact that I bought a book on Islam to learn about the religion (i am christian)...the fact that I decided I wanted to participate in Ramadan (even though he isn't here)...they are little things for me, but he was really happy about this...When I was in Jordan he would ask me when we went in the street to button my jacket (i have really big t~lassies) hehe...so instead i just went and bought a scarf to cover the top part that would show. But like everyone here has said, just make sure you don't adjust yourself and the person that you are....i always think to myself, by compromising on this, will it be hurting me??? if not, why not???

**Moe also believed that dogs should not be inside--I told him, they have been around alot longer than you...they stay!! they are my babies and they weigh all of 5 pounds each. He asked, does our daughter love the dogs and I said yes...so he agreed they stay inside...lol...i'm NOT budging on that one...

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

The kid problem comes up here time and time again. Honestly I can't understand how people commit to marriage and file for a visa if they haven't decided or been able to agree on so many things. For us it was very important to talk about everything and make sure we weren't going to have any bumps in the road about children. We both want kids and both want to wait several years and are both very happy that we talked about those things and agreed before he got here. It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids (which is usually when the women already has some and is too old to have more) I think that is a big red flag.

Yeah I know. Everything was settled before marriage. Then I joined VJ after reading this 56 page thread in response to this ladies gut wrenching long post about MENA men and their attitudes and how he done her wrong after them being together for five years and he marries a local. I confronted my Husband on some of the issues and maybe didn't manage it well. It was our first real fight and realization we may not stay together. He told me to call off the visas and if I wanted a divorce he'd proceed. Even a month or so after that he's not sure about kids. I don't blame him because even I'm not. It brings a whole other wealth of issues. We're over coming the argument though. It takes time.

[Nicole_Michel2007 0]

The kid problem comes up here time and time again. Honestly I can't understand how people commit to marriage and file for a visa if they haven't decided or been able to agree on so many things. For us it was very important to talk about everything and make sure we weren't going to have any bumps in the road about children. We both want kids and both want to wait several years and are both very happy that we talked about those things and agreed before he got here. It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids (which is usually when the women already has some and is too old to have more) I think that is a big red flag.

Yeah I know. Everything was settled before marriage. Then I joined VJ after reading this 56 page thread in response to this ladies gut wrenching long post about MENA men and their attitudes and how he done her wrong after them being together for five years and he marries a local. I confronted my Husband on some of the issues and maybe didn't manage it well. It was our first real fight and realization we may not stay together. He told me to call off the visas and if I wanted a divorce he'd proceed. Even a month or so after that he's not sure about kids. I don't blame him because even I'm not. It brings a whole other wealth of issues. We're over coming the argument though. It takes time.

This thread is quite interesting - although i used to say that Micho and I have talked about everything I knwo there will definately be adjustments for both of us - I have lived alone and independently for 6 years - i was 18 when i left my parents house - he appreciates that i am independent and looks forward to learning from me. But there will definately pebbles in our journey...

I have come to realize that this thread seems to lean towards and excuse me if i am not beign politically correct - but it seems to lean towards relationships where one part is of muslim religion. Both Micho and I are Christians - as are many arabs and the branding thats being put on Arab Men seem to be characteristics of Muslim men - and for the most part is stereotypical. Just because you have experience with 1 arab man doesn't mean you know them all. Mine for example doesn't mind shorts and sleeveless but was very weary about kissing me in front of his 18 yr old cousin bc of respect for me. (no criticism intended on the shorts just trying to use on of the forums examples) But I also have a good friend who's married to an Egyptian man who's pretty much not allowed to leave the house unless its with him. And this is a man who took her to parties and the beach and day trips while they were engaged - she's lucky if he sets aside an hour for grocery shopping. Everyone's different.

Anyways - just thought i'd give my two cents. Have a good nite!

[sandinista! 1,816]

The kid problem comes up here time and time again. Honestly I can't understand how people commit to marriage and file for a visa if they haven't decided or been able to agree on so many things. For us it was very important to talk about everything and make sure we weren't going to have any bumps in the road about children. We both want kids and both want to wait several years and are both very happy that we talked about those things and agreed before he got here. It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids (which is usually when the women already has some and is too old to have more) I think that is a big red flag.

Yeah I know. Everything was settled before marriage. Then I joined VJ after reading this 56 page thread in response to this ladies gut wrenching long post about MENA men and their attitudes and how he done her wrong after them being together for five years and he marries a local. I confronted my Husband on some of the issues and maybe didn't manage it well. It was our first real fight and realization we may not stay together. He told me to call off the visas and if I wanted a divorce he'd proceed. Even a month or so after that he's not sure about kids. I don't blame him because even I'm not. It brings a whole other wealth of issues. We're over coming the argument though. It takes time.

This thread is quite interesting - although i used to say that Micho and I have talked about everything I knwo there will definately be adjustments for both of us - I have lived alone and independently for 6 years - i was 18 when i left my parents house - he appreciates that i am independent and looks forward to learning from me. But there will definately pebbles in our journey...

I have come to realize that this thread seems to lean towards and excuse me if i am not beign politically correct - but it seems to lean towards relationships where one part is of muslim religion. Both Micho and I are Christians - as are many arabs and the branding thats being put on Arab Men seem to be characteristics of Muslim men - and for the most part is stereotypical. Just because you have experience with 1 arab man doesn't mean you know them all. Mine for example doesn't mind shorts and sleeveless but was very weary about kissing me in front of his 18 yr old cousin bc of respect for me. (no criticism intended on the shorts just trying to use on of the forums examples) But I also have a good friend who's married to an Egyptian man who's pretty much not allowed to leave the house unless its with him. And this is a man who took her to parties and the beach and day trips while they were engaged - she's lucky if he sets aside an hour for grocery shopping. Everyone's different.

Anyways - just thought i'd give my two cents. Have a good nite!

so lemme see if i have this straight.

"Just because you have experience with 1 arab man doesn't mean you know them all."

BUT

"the branding thats being put on Arab Men seem to be characteristics of Muslim men"

so we're to avoid making generalizations about arabs...cause some of them might be christian. and God forbid we make generalizations about christian arabs because, duh, only arab muslims can have generalizations made about them, like "the branding thats being put on Arab Men seem to be characteristics of Muslim men". alright, cool, got it.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

The kid problem comes up here time and time again. Honestly I can't understand how people commit to marriage and file for a visa if they haven't decided or been able to agree on so many things. For us it was very important to talk about everything and make sure we weren't going to have any bumps in the road about children. We both want kids and both want to wait several years and are both very happy that we talked about those things and agreed before he got here. It's hard for me to imagine a man from MENA who doesn't want children since family is so important in those countries. When a man says they don't want kids (which is usually when the women already has some and is too old to have more) I think that is a big red flag.

Yeah I know. Everything was settled before marriage. Then I joined VJ after reading this 56 page thread in response to this ladies gut wrenching long post about MENA men and their attitudes and how he done her wrong after them being together for five years and he marries a local. I confronted my Husband on some of the issues and maybe didn't manage it well. It was our first real fight and realization we may not stay together. He told me to call off the visas and if I wanted a divorce he'd proceed. Even a month or so after that he's not sure about kids. I don't blame him because even I'm not. It brings a whole other wealth of issues. We're over coming the argument though. It takes time.

I'm reminded of this thread today because I mentioned the kids thing and it brought up red flags for some.

Happily I would like to add Waleed and I are have overcome the previous argument that started all that not having kids stuff and are discussing the option of having children again. We have been talking about having two kids and for the boy I like the name Amoon but nothing is set in stone. We also have been discussing houses an future plans. I am happiest when we're not fighting and we're chatting over planning our future dreams together. It is lovely.

[PetraPerson101 0]

One more thing...Arab men are extremely jealous creatures....usually that jealousy comes out at the most unlikely of places...smile at the guy bagging your groceries and the fight could be on....mention a guys name that you ran into and had a chat with that day with and the fireworks might fly...seriously you never know what sets off the jealousy radar....and to make it even more rediculous...you are not allowed to be jealous of him because he is a man and can do as he pleases.....you probably think this a bitter ex speaking(and to some extent your right) but Im also speaking from the experience of other women speaking to me over a span of 20 years...always the same stories....always the same kind of beginning and same miserable outcome.

o.O

Gah, you talk about us like we're monsters. Maybe it's because I grew up in the USA.

Sure, I want some changes out of my wife. Let me list them:

- cook with olive oil instead of corn oil

- trim the fat off the chicken

- I cook the beef. The grill's mine.

- Wh00t! You've got to finish learning English anyways, why not just get a degree in English?

- Um ... you know, wear pants & boots. They're better for hiking. (She was a real sport in Petra we made it to the monestary - even though I offered to literally carry her back down the mountain! )

I'd be skeptical of uber-jealous people. I was married to one. She was still seeing her boyfriend of 4 years ... for a year *after* she "married" me. (married = "opened a bank account".)

I could toss in a word about Arab guys who are drinking disrespectful hypocrites and all that, if you'd like. I know one - and I'm going to punch him next time I see 'em.

I'm reminded of this thread today because I mentioned the kids thing and it brought up red flags for some.

Yeah, that would be something to avoid saying in front of a consular officer ... it's not - how can I say - culturally correct.

Although you'll be speaking to a US government employee - they know the local culture inside & out.

Edited September 21, 2007 by KyanWan