B tourist visa while married to a US citizen possible?

[my_gf_wants_cr1 13]

4 minutes ago, Kor2USA said:

Can you clarify.

Are you talking about the DCF request being denied or the actual CR1 visa application.

Remember requesting DCF is not an actual application. You're just asking the embassy if you can go direct through them and not via USCIS. 

And your relationship with your partner is possibly a barrier to her obtaining a B2 regardless of your marital status. 

 

If an immigration benefit is denied, your partner might not be approved for an ESTA once she obtains her German passport.

 

If you were previously denied a visa, or previously refused entry to the United States, or previously removed from the U.S., your ESTA application will most likely be denied.

If you were allowed to board your carrier, you may be subject to additional processing upon arrival at U.S. ports of entry, and may be denied admission to the U.S. Applicants who are uncertain of whether they qualify for travel under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) are encouraged to apply for ESTA authorization early, to allow time to apply for a visa, if needed.

Many people make the mistake of thinking that if they were denied a visa when they were a citizen of one country, then become a citizen of another country, they can travel to the U.S. under the visa waiver program using their new passport. That is wrong. The eligibility question about having been denied a visa does not ask whether or not the denial was made after you became a citizen of another country. It asks, "Have you ever been denied a visa?" - period. If you answer "No" then we determine that you have been denied a visa in the past, we consider that to be fraud, and you will be barred from entry for a number of years. It is better to admit the truth, and then apply for a visa, than go through the experience of being deported for fraud.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1097?language=en_US#:~:text=If you were previously denied,will most likely be denied.&text=It is better to admit,of being deported for fraud.

 

 

I am talking about CR-1 application denial

Thanks for the notes from CBP about ESTA.

I assume what their clarification is there because a lot of people tried to go the route of "I was denied in country A, now I am citizen of country B, was never denied via B, ergo I was never denied.

To me, personally, that is obviously NOT the case, if she is denied then she would write that in her ESTA application.

So what would her options be?

If we are applying for CR-1 and it's denied (no matter how unlikely, I know!), are we then screwed as a couple? Do we then have to live with the fact that her B2 and/or ESTA chances forever are super low?

[Redro 4,611]

3 minutes ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

I am talking about CR-1 application denial

Thanks for the notes from CBP about ESTA.

I assume what their clarification is there because a lot of people tried to go the route of "I was denied in country A, now I am citizen of country B, was never denied via B, ergo I was never denied.

To me, personally, that is obviously NOT the case, if she is denied then she would write that in her ESTA application.

So what would her options be?

If we are applying for CR-1 and it's denied (no matter how unlikely, I know!), are we then screwed as a couple? Do we then have to live with the fact that her B2 and/or ESTA chances forever are super low?

Why do you think the CR-1 will be denied? 

 

[my_gf_wants_cr1 13]

5 minutes ago, Kor2USA said:

Why do you think the CR-1 will be denied? 

 

I don't really, I just ask VJ as a precaution in case it happens, so I would know what are my options.

 

I will be honest - I DID have a fleeting thought of "maybe it's a stupid move and we should drop it, apply for a B2, and then I will try and do a relocation job offer" just because then at the very least she could go visit with me.

After all, there is always the chance of the job offer suddenly out of the blue being rescinded etc etc.

 

What I am saying is - I am thinking about all the scenarios just to be prepared, because a single problem along the way could have irreversible consequences.

(For example getting married would effectively put her out of a B2 eligibility, at least until divorce...)

[Redro 4,611]

23 minutes ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

I don't really, I just ask VJ as a precaution in case it happens, so I would know what are my options.

 

I will be honest - I DID have a fleeting thought of "maybe it's a stupid move and we should drop it, apply for a B2, and then I will try and do a relocation job offer" just because then at the very least she could go visit with me.

After all, there is always the chance of the job offer suddenly out of the blue being rescinded etc etc.

 

What I am saying is - I am thinking about all the scenarios just to be prepared, because a single problem along the way could have irreversible consequences.

(For example getting married would effectively put her out of a B2 eligibility, at least until divorce...)

Don't borrow trouble. 

 

What you can do depends on why the visa was denied. 

1.) If the visa is denied because they do not believe you have a real relationship, you can have the petition re-affirmed ( @JeanneAdil went through that process).

2.) If the visa is denied because of another reason, you might be able to file a waiver and then your partner will be able to immigrate to the States. 

3.) If the visa is denied because your wife is found inadmissable for whatever reason and that inadmissablity carries a permanent ban. She won't be able to visit the States ever. 

 

If you do not seek re-affimation or apply for a waiver. Your partner will most likely not be allowed to enter the States on an ESTA or a B2 even if you divorce because she has already shown immigrant intent. Unless she can prove she has very strong ties to Israel. Vacationing in the States is dependent on your partner's ability to show she doesn't want to live in the States.

As @millefleur stated previously, even if you are not married there is a chance your partner would not be able to obtain a B2 visa due to your 5 year relationship. It's not fair but those are the rules we all have to abide by. 

 

This is my understanding of the US immigration system. Other members can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Have a read around the CR1/IR1 forums to see what issues lead to a denial and how USCs have overcome these issues. But, given the facts you've provided a CR-1 denial is very unlikely. Your partner will probably have to wait 1-2 years to move to the States. If you're not willing to be apart for that length of time do not accept the current job offer. 

Continue with your life in Israel and when the time comes to visit the USA have your partner apply for ESTA if she obtains German citizenship or have her apply for a B2 visa and hope she receives one. 

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Kor2USA

[powerpuff 6,746]

1 hour ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

So what would her options be?

If we are applying for CR-1 and it's denied (no matter how unlikely, I know!), are we then screwed as a couple? Do we then have to live with the fact that her B2 and/or ESTA chances forever are super low?

Marrying and applying for a spousal visa is a very serious step, it’s intended for immigration to the US and to build a life there. So yes, if it’s denied, chances are low for a subsequent B2 visa because overcoming such a strong immigrant intent is difficult to say the least. That’s just the risk you have to take. Thousands of other couples took that risk, including everyone here. Your options are only two: take the risk and apply for CR1 or not take the risk and you both live in her country. That’s it. 

[Crazy Cat 42,033]

3 hours ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

But then one lawyer said "You can try, but why put yourself in a situation which is not guaranteed? Just go the 3rd country wedding which will be recognized 100%, look more valid, so you won't have any scrutiny about it".

Did that attorney cite an example of the Utah marriage not being recognized?  I'll bet he/she didn't..... because it is a valid, recognized marriage.  

Edited December 25, 2021 by Crazy Cat

[Mike E 11,742]

16 hours ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

Odds of getting a tourist visa if we both stay in home country and can prove our jobs and lives are here?

 

I have never heard of a spouse of a USA citizen getting a B-1/B-2 visa except when the following are all true:

 

* The USA citizen has a second citizenship 

 

* This second citizenship is with a country whose citizens have a visa waiver or visa exemption with the USA 

 

* The country of the second citizenship is considered highly advanced 

 

* The spouse of the USA citizen successfully gets a visa to visit that second country

 

* The spouse visits that second country for under a month and does not over stay 

 

* The spouse can document that visit to the second country 

 

So get a second citizenship 

[Redro 4,611]

32 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I have never heard of a spouse of a USA citizen getting a B-1/B-2 visa except when the following are all true:

 

* The USA citizen has a second citizenship 

 

* This second citizenship is with a country whose citizens have a visa waiver or visa exemption with the USA 

 

* The country of the second citizenship is considered highly advanced 

 

* The spouse of the USA citizen successfully gets a visa to visit that second country

 

* The spouse visits that second country for under a month and does not over stay 

 

* The spouse can document that visit to the second country 

 

So get a second citizenship 

OP already has dual citizenship and has never lived in the USA.

 

I know 2 South Africans who've received B2 visas whilst married to an American and one Nigerian. In all scenarios the USCs did not have second citizenship but in all cases the USC lived with the spouse.  The foreign spouse needs to prove strong ties to their country of residence.  I will say in all 3 cases, the foreign spouse only obtained a single entry B2. In two of the cases I reference the couple had a child or the USC was pregnant and in the third case an I-130 had been filed. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Kor2USA

[millefleur 5,047]

2 hours ago, Kor2USA said:

I know 2 South Africans who've received B2 visas whilst married to an American and one Nigerian. In all scenarios the USCs did not have second citizenship but in all cases the USC lived with the spouse.  The foreign spouse needs to prove strong ties to their country of residence.  I will say in all 3 cases, the foreign spouse only obtained a single entry B2. In two of the cases I reference the couple had a child or the USC was pregnant and in the third case an I-130 had been filed. 

Fascinating! I always wondered if there were single entry visas for people with USC spouses. This is my first time hearing about it. I'm curious what ties they showed other than the child also living abroad. I'm surprized a pregnant applicant would get approved in that case. Sadly, it seems most people in this situation walk away with denials.

[Mike E 11,742]

2 hours ago, Kor2USA said:

OP already has dual citizenship and has never lived in the USA.

a second citizenship where?

 

oh yes.  The country of the alien spouse.  So please reread what I wrote.  

 

Matters not if the USC has never lived in the USA. 

 

Quote

 

I know 2 South Africans who've received B2 visas whilst married to an American and one Nigerian. In all scenarios the USCs did not have second citizenship but in all cases the USC lived with the spouse.  The foreign spouse needs to prove strong ties to their country of residence.  I will say in all 3 cases, the foreign spouse only obtained a single entry B2. In two of the cases I reference the couple had a child or the USC was pregnant and in the third case an I-130 had been filed. 

That’s nice.  In your guesstimating would to say this happens closer to  0.9 percent of the time, 9 percent, 90 percent, or 99 percent?

Edited December 25, 2021 by Mike E

[my_gf_wants_cr1 13]

Again, thank you ALL.

 

 

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

I have never heard of a spouse of a USA citizen getting a B-1/B-2 visa except when the following are all true:

 

* The USA citizen has a second citizenship 

 

* This second citizenship is with a country whose citizens have a visa waiver or visa exemption with the USA 

 

* The country of the second citizenship is considered highly advanced 

 

* The spouse of the USA citizen successfully gets a visa to visit that second country

 

* The spouse visits that second country for under a month and does not over stay 

 

* The spouse can document that visit to the second country 

 

So get a second citizenship 

I actually have a dual citizenship, one of them with the same nationality as my fiance.

Not a waiver country tho.

 

4 hours ago, Crazy Cat said:

Did that attorney cite an example of the Utah marriage not being recognized?  I'll bet he/she didn't..... because it is a valid, recognized marriage.  

Your bet is true, they didn't cite any example of either actually.

They only said "they know of such marriage but never have they seen them in an immigration case" and they also cite "it's effectively a proxy marriage", even though I understand it's not.

 

4 hours ago, powerpuff said:

Marrying and applying for a spousal visa is a very serious step, it’s intended for immigration to the US and to build a life there. So yes, if it’s denied, chances are low for a subsequent B2 visa because overcoming such a strong immigrant intent is difficult to say the least. That’s just the risk you have to take. Thousands of other couples took that risk, including everyone here. Your options are only two: take the risk and apply for CR1 or not take the risk and you both live in her country. That’s it. 

I agree. With this current job offer, not taking it would be silly.

 

 

5 hours ago, Kor2USA said:

Don't borrow trouble. 

 

What you can do depends on why the visa was denied. 

1.) If the visa is denied because they do not believe you have a real relationship, you can have the petition re-affirmed ( @JeanneAdil went through that process).

2.) If the visa is denied because of another reason, you might be able to file a waiver and then your partner will be able to immigrate to the States. 

3.) If the visa is denied because your wife is found inadmissable for whatever reason and that inadmissablity carries a permanent ban. She won't be able to visit the States ever. 

 

If you do not seek re-affimation or apply for a waiver. Your partner will most likely not be allowed to enter the States on an ESTA or a B2 even if you divorce because she has already shown immigrant intent. Unless she can prove she has very strong ties to Israel. Vacationing in the States is dependent on your partner's ability to show she doesn't want to live in the States.

As @millefleur stated previously, even if you are not married there is a chance your partner would not be able to obtain a B2 visa due to your 5 year relationship. It's not fair but those are the rules we all have to abide by. 

 

This is my understanding of the US immigration system. Other members can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Have a read around the CR1/IR1 forums to see what issues lead to a denial and how USCs have overcome these issues. But, given the facts you've provided a CR-1 denial is very unlikely. Your partner will probably have to wait 1-2 years to move to the States. If you're not willing to be apart for that length of time do not accept the current job offer. 

Continue with your life in Israel and when the time comes to visit the USA have your partner apply for ESTA if she obtains German citizenship or have her apply for a B2 visa and hope she receives one. 

 

Thanks for those point, I do a agree "even if you are not married there is a chance your partner would not be able to obtain a B2 visa due to your 5 year relationship." and it's actually one of the reasons she didn't apply for B2 during this time (she also didn't have a stable job which is another red flag during interviews).

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

a second citizenship where?

 

That’s nice.  

I have a 2nd citizenship in the same country as my fiance (Israel).

We both live here and work here.

Edited December 25, 2021 by my_gf_wants_cr1

[millefleur 5,047]

14 minutes ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

I have a 2nd citizenship in the same country as my fiance (Israel).

We both live here and work here.

I do want to add some optimism: refusal rate for B visas for Israelis is really low, only around 5%. That's one of the lowest refusal rates I've seen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Adjusted_visa_refusal_rate

 

If she's eligible for German citizenship and then just enter on VWP, though, I think that's still the best bet for visitation plans.

[Mike E 11,742]

32 minutes ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

 

I have a 2nd citizenship in the same country as my fiance (Israel).

We both live here and work here.

Then get a third citizenship 

[my_gf_wants_cr1 13]

15 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Then get a third citizenship 

Well the plan is, I guess at some point, is getting a German via her.

But all of this doesn't solve the expediency of the issue we face now, i.e "what if her CR-1 is refused and we married BECAUSE of the CR-1 and the immediate job offer".

This is why I asked everything here

 

31 minutes ago, millefleur said:

I do want to add some optimism: refusal rate for B visas for Israelis is really low, only around 5%. That's one of the lowest refusal rates I've seen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Adjusted_visa_refusal_rate

 

If she's eligible for German citizenship and then just enter on VWP, though, I think that's still the best bet for visitation plans.

Thanks for those pointers.

[Mike E 11,742]

10 minutes ago, my_gf_wants_cr1 said:

 

But all of this doesn't solve the expediency of the issue we face now, i.e "what if her CR-1 is refused and we married BECAUSE of the CR-1 and the immediate job offer".

 

So IOW you  would not get married unless you knew the CR-1 would be approved.  
 

That doesn’t seem like a bonafide relationship from  the perspective  of immigration. 
 

To answer your “what if” question: you have a spouse then.  You can

 

1. do a  long distance marriage

 

2. return to Israel to live with your spouse. 
 

3. divorce. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Mike E