How the rise of electric cars endangers the ‘last frontier’ of the Philippines

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

Just now, Dashinka said:

When people start taking delivery of those EV trucks, hitch up their trailer and have to stop after 150 miles to recharge, we will see what happens.  

Agree. It may be great for some applications. The new hybrid tundra will have 437 horsepower and 583 ft lb torque. It is rumored between 28 and 30mpg but that is not confirmed.  

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

3 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I agree, Toyota and to some extent Honda and Nissan are still running the hybrid game.  I think Ford is also staying with hybrid for a time at least as they are taking a little more wait and see approach to going full EV.

If they can get the EV only range up in the 50-60 mark with the Prime hybrids, it may be great fro a daily commuter and gas for the long haul

[Dashinka 24,726]

11 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

If they can get the EV only range up in the 50-60 mark with the Prime hybrids, it may be great fro a daily commuter and gas for the long haul

This to me would be perfect for when you want to take those occasional cross-country trips, but generally drive shorter distances daily. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

Just now, Dashinka said:

This to me would be perfect for when you want to take those occasional cross-country trips, but generally drive shorter distances daily. 

42 EV range on the RAV4 prime is getting there.  Starting in the high 30s to low 40s is not that out of reach for many. A decked out Camry can run close to that much.

 

 

[Boiler 45,931]

I have a friend who has a Tesla and a ICE SUV, some big Toyota.

 

Also somebody on the waiting list for a Rivian.

 

I have changed my mind, one of the big advantages is significant reduction in operating costs, Even brake pads, no oil changes before we get into engine repairs.

 

I think once they start becoming available at regular price points we will see a massive up take, Now how the Government will get its take that will be interesting.

 

I occasionally watch Munro videos and I think it was there where the cost of developing a new ICE engine was mentioned, I was surprised.

 

Going to be very difficult to justify R&D for new ICE vehicles or Hybrids without large sale numbers. We are seeing now difficulties with oil and coal explorations.

 

This sort of reminds me of the strong independent women discussion, none of this acts independently. Not only will there be a big increase in electricity demand but also in distribution. Where I am the big increase will be in winter as most energy is used for heat.

 

Interesting times.

 

Ohh and the Dealership system, can not see that surviving.

 

 

 

[Boiler 45,931]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Politely disagree. All Sienna and Venza are 100 Hybrid. even the Tundra is going to have a Hybrid option for  22.

Also the Prius Prime and RAV 4 primes are plug in hybrids 25 miles and 42 miles respectively on EV mode only.  I suspect the EV only ranges will increase but have a motor for backup.

 

I am only repeating what the Toyota executives are planning for 

Seem to remember Toyota were focussing on Hydrogen? They do seem to be behind the curve, but thought I saw they were investing a lot now into batteries? I remember when the UK has a large Motor Bike industry, that disappeared fairly quickly, feels we are going through something similar, some will survive, some will not.

[Dashinka 24,726]

44 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I have a friend who has a Tesla and a ICE SUV, some big Toyota.

 

Also somebody on the waiting list for a Rivian.

 

I have changed my mind, one of the big advantages is significant reduction in operating costs, Even brake pads, no oil changes before we get into engine repairs.

 

I think once they start becoming available at regular price points we will see a massive up take, Now how the Government will get its take that will be interesting.

 

I occasionally watch Munro videos and I think it was there where the cost of developing a new ICE engine was mentioned, I was surprised.

 

Going to be very difficult to justify R&D for new ICE vehicles or Hybrids without large sale numbers. We are seeing now difficulties with oil and coal explorations.

 

This sort of reminds me of the strong independent women discussion, none of this acts independently. Not only will there be a big increase in electricity demand but also in distribution. Where I am the big increase will be in winter as most energy is used for heat.

 

Interesting times.

 

Ohh and the Dealership system, can not see that surviving.

 

 

 

That kind of goes back to the OP here.  The materials needed for EVs are also seeing issues related to finding and extracting them.  I still think there will be a need for dealerships, or at least service centers.  EVs are not all software, and there are a lot of issues that can still go wrong with them that cannot be fixed in driveways.  About a year ago, a Tesla dealer showed up in my area, and I see a lot of them heading there on a regular basis.

[Boiler 45,931]

It is not that they need no maintenance, just a lot less. 

 

The guy with the Tesla, turns out his wife has one and she does a lot of miles and she got one first. His was secondhand and basically all he has had to pay for is tires.

 

I think one of the main issues the Legacy automakers have is dealers, no reason Costco could not sell EV's like they do Computers. Or just like Tesla sell direct.

 

Now they do get into accidents and this seems something Tesla has not got to grips with.

 

Lots of changes coming.

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

9 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

42 EV range on the RAV4 prime is getting there.  Starting in the high 30s to low 40s is not that out of reach for many. A decked out Camry can run close to that much.

 

 

I just looked at a list of several US EVs after this thread.  Tesla and Lucid weren't on the list for some reason.  What's up with numbers like 42?  The bigger EV makers are getting 300-500+ on a charge.  Seems like Toyota, Ford, Chevy et. al. have a LONG way to go.

https://evadoption.com/ev-models/available-phevs/ 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

2 minutes ago, LIBrty4all said:

I just looked at a list of several US EVs after this thread.  Tesla and Lucid weren't on the list for some reason.  What's up with numbers like 42?  The bigger EV makers are getting 300-500+ on a charge.  Seems like Toyota, Ford, Chevy et. al. have a LONG way to go.

https://evadoption.com/ev-models/available-phevs/ 

It's not an ev it's a hybrid that has short ev range. 

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

4 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

It's not an ev it's a hybrid that has short ev range. 

Yeah, I just realized I was mixing apples with kumquats, sorry.  Didn't realize I had flipped the page between BEVs and PHEVs.

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:47 PM, Boiler said:

It is not that they need no maintenance, just a lot less. 

 

The guy with the Tesla, turns out his wife has one and she does a lot of miles and she got one first. His was secondhand and basically all he has had to pay for is tires.

 

I think one of the main issues the Legacy automakers have is dealers, no reason Costco could not sell EV's like they do Computers. Or just like Tesla sell direct.

 

Now they do get into accidents and this seems something Tesla has not got to grips with.

 

Lots of changes coming.

Just read a story of a guy who has owned a Tesla Model S for about 8 years.  Started throwing all sorts of warnings.  Had the car towed to a Tesla service center, where it took them a month to determine that the entire battery pack needed to be replaced, at a cost of $22,480.  No more warranty.  Owner got upset and instead of paying to replace the battery pack, he instead loaded the car with dynamite and blew it up.

Compared to a new engine for $1200-3000, a battery pack that costs more than a brand new vehicle is NOT sustainable, IMO.

[Boiler 45,931]

That is more a right to repair issue, and that applies across the board. I remember seeing a story on YT where it was sort of that sum and Rich Rebuilds I think fixed it for a lot less.

 

I have a friend whose truck has now been in for 2 weeks and he is expecting more that 3 grand without a new engine. I also remember seeing I think a really nice upmarket BMW that somebody bought for a song with the hope of a cheap fix, that did not work out and he had to sell it for parts, I forget how much he expected it to cost him but a lot more than the car could possibly be worth.

 

Some time back I was looking at a Prius and that needed a new pack, there is now a market for fitting new packs at a lot less than a Dealer would charge.

 

Realistically I expect the bottom mid range of the market to be mainly Chinese and I expect battery maintenance to attract a lot of attention from the independents, just like what happened to Laptops and phones. May not be the traditional automotive people.

 

In a logical world it should be a simple ish swap out, test the old battery and get a price for replacing with a new or nearly new. and the way things are moving the replacement battery could be a lot lot better.

[Dashinka 24,726]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

That is more a right to repair issue, and that applies across the board. I remember seeing a story on YT where it was sort of that sum and Rich Rebuilds I think fixed it for a lot less.

 

I have a friend whose truck has now been in for 2 weeks and he is expecting more that 3 grand without a new engine. I also remember seeing I think a really nice upmarket BMW that somebody bought for a song with the hope of a cheap fix, that did not work out and he had to sell it for parts, I forget how much he expected it to cost him but a lot more than the car could possibly be worth.

 

Some time back I was looking at a Prius and that needed a new pack, there is now a market for fitting new packs at a lot less than a Dealer would charge.

 

Realistically I expect the bottom mid range of the market to be mainly Chinese and I expect battery maintenance to attract a lot of attention from the independents, just like what happened to Laptops and phones. May not be the traditional automotive people.

 

In a logical world it should be a simple ish swap out, test the old battery and get a price for replacing with a new or nearly new. and the way things are moving the replacement battery could be a lot lot better.

The person thinking they could do a cheap refurbishment of any upmarket German brand really did not do their research.  As to battery replacement, much like a fuel tank, battery packs are packaged specifically for a vehicle platform, so updating them to the latest technology in battery cells is not always that easy.  On top of that, you also have all the cooling systems equipped which may change depending on the battery technology used.

[Boiler 45,931]

He definitely knew he was taking a flyer but probably made good his loss on his YT income. Seem to remember it was in Florida? But it was maybe 10 years old but the engine was super complicated. 
 

I remember with the Tesla they pulled the pack out and replaced some of the cells. The Prius there are enough around to have packs from scrapped cars they rebuild and take yours as part of the deal.