And we are done!

[JT4/25 38]

awesome.  congratulations to Mary and you!

[Ben & Katy 168]

18 hours ago, Crazy Cat said:

Congratulations to both of you!!!!!

Did you hear anything on yours yet?

[Beth & Achraf 328]

19 hours ago, Paul & Mary said:

Mary had her interview this morning in Phoenix.  It took about five minutes after waiting about an hour.  I was outside in the car and she called me crying; I thought some disaster happened.  Took about 45 minutes then she and 5 other were naturalized.   

 

We have a trip to London next week so the only Passport Offices with openings are Honolulu, San Juan and El Paso!  We will work on reacquiring her Filipino Citizenship when we return.

 

Thanks for all the support!

A Very Big Congratulations!!!  ♥♥

[nathan92845 7]

Congratulations!  It’s such a long process but worth it at the end.

[Letspaintcookies 2,308]

Congratulations 🥳🥳 awesome news

[TBoneTX 45,014]

Such great news, si man (and ma'am)!

 

You'd better remain a regular here on VJ, or it will be a sad loss!

[bsd058 296]

Wouldn't she then have to swear allegiance to the Philippines, if she attempts to get her citizenship back from them?

[millefleur 5,046]

2 hours ago, bsd058 said:

Wouldn't she then have to swear allegiance to the Philippines, if she attempts to get her citizenship back from them?

A lot of Americans retain their US citizenship when they acquire others (which usually requires some kind of allegiance or promise), I don't see it being an issue on the US side? Not sure about the Philippines side.

[Adventine 3,195]

7 minutes ago, millefleur said:

A lot of Americans retain their US citizenship when they acquire others (which usually requires some kind of allegiance or promise), I don't see it being an issue on the US side? Not sure about the Philippines side.

Very easy to reacquire Philippine citizenship after becoming a US citizen. You  put together a small packet of easily obtainable documents, schedule an appointment at a PH embassy/consulate, pay a small fee, and take the PH oath. 

[bsd058 296]

12 minutes ago, millefleur said:

A lot of Americans retain their US citizenship when they acquire others (which usually requires some kind of allegiance or promise), I don't see it being an issue on the US side? Not sure about the Philippines side.

I was just thinking about the morality of it, though. Whether or not it's done regularly. The oath for US citizenship is that you swear allegiance to the USA. The oath for The Philippines is that you swear allegiance to them and must admit their supremacy. It just seems shady to take an oath to one nation with the mental reservation that you intended to swear your allegiance to another nation almost immediately after. I don't think I could do that, in good conscience. Feels like a violation of the oath of US citizenship. I'm not saying it 100% is. I guess I was just curious as to how one justifies that in their own personal lives. Perhaps there is something I'm not thinking of about the oaths required for both countries that would make it okay.

Edited December 3, 2021 by bsd058

[Adventine 3,195]

@bsd058 I think everyone who decides on dual citizenship asks themselves this question at some point. I think a lot of people who choose to become dual citizens think about being able to travel easily, own property in either country, or stay for very long periods of time in either country without needing to apply for visas.

[millefleur 5,046]

1 minute ago, bsd058 said:

I was just thinking about the morality of it, though. Whether or not it's done regularly. The oath for US citizenship is that you swear allegiance to the USA. The oath for The Philippines is that you swear allegiance to them and must admit their supremacy. It just seems shady to take an oath to one nation with the mental reservation that you intended to swear your allegiance to another nation. I don't think I could do that, in good conscience. Feel like a violation of the oath of US citizenship.

From my view is, if the US government had a problem with it, they wouldn't allow dual citizenship. The way it works is sort of like this: if a dual US citizen is traveling/living in the country which you also have citizenship with, and let's say you get in trouble with their local laws and end up in prison there, the US government cannot act on your behalf or represent or accompany you because as a dual citizen, you are also subject to that country's laws. The US government can, however, use diplomacy and mass media to highlight your case and escalate it to a diplomatic talking point with the other country. There was a famous case like this involving dual US-Israeli citizen Jonathan Pollard.

 

I actually thought about this a lot because my husband is a Russian-American dual citizen where something like this could actually happen, lol. Also, having dual US citizenship does bar the person from a lot of other rights that sole US citizens have: ability to get a security clearance and run for president. Dual citizens can still get elected to Congress, however. And indeed, there are many dual citizen Congress members. It doesn't seem like the US cares that much about it unless you cross the line into actually spying or somehow betraying US interests (which a green card holder could also do as well, actually.)

[millefleur 5,046]

3 minutes ago, Adventine said:

I think everyone who decides on dual citizenship asks themselves this question at some point. I think a lot of people who choose to become dual citizens think about being able to travel easily, own property in either country, or stay for very long periods of time in either country without needing to apply for visas.

100% this. It's about freedom of movement for the vast majority of dual citizens. Getting citizenship is really the only way to be able to go back and forth between the two countries.

 

In Europe, apparently some EU countries will issue the European "green card"/residence permit to EU non-citizen relatives and allow them to just come and go as they please, without actually having to live in that country. My Italian friend's Russian wife has this card for Italy even though they actually live full-time in Russia. This enables her to just come and go from Europe as she pleases, so she doesn't need Italian citizenship through her husband, she flies through the Schengen zone without any questions. The US GC does not allow that. You have to actually physically live in the US to maintain your GC. Because of that, the only choice for free movement is citizenship. If the GC allowed people to just come and go, there would probably be a lot fewer people applying for citizenship.

[Just Paul 4,595]

On 12/2/2021 at 9:28 AM, TBoneTX said:

Such great news, si man (and ma'am)!

 

You'd better remain a regular here on VJ, or it will be a sad loss!

I'll be around until I say or do something to get me banned!   Next year will bring some changes in my work . . .  as my non-compete expires this month.  I'll be working for $ a bit more and won't be able to volunteer with some local immigration groups (which is fine because they didn't believe our timeline at first -haha)  I signed up for VJ the day we did our petition! We actually met up with a few folks I met here along the way. It has been a good overall experience. 

[Just Paul 4,595]

Hello @bsd058  as @millefleur pointed out it is more about freedom of movement for most duals.   In the case of the Philippines she automatically loses her citizenship when she acquired her US.  The same would apply if she was Chinese.  Philippines allows her to require it but if she was Chinese she would not.  If the US were to ban dual then I am not sure she would have naturalized, especially in the covid climate. For example it is easier for her to travel back to see her family with a Filipino passport.

 

I used to teach a Business Ethics class.  We would pontificate about the differences between morals, ethics and laws.  Laws never keep with technology or "reality". So while there is an "ethical" question with a dual allegiance in the case of US Law it is not illegal.  In our case I had to decline certain business opportunities (Federal Government related) because I was married to a Foreign National.  My brother even had this come up in a security review while he was in USAF.

 

So now we are wrapped up and Mrs Mary is now a US Citizen, will regain the Filipino status and because she married me - still has a Mexican Green Card!