And speaking of jealousy....

[tnh9479 1]

Morocco has only been a protectorate and was bERBER not Arab to begin with. The arabic influence traveled to there

How is this any different than there being a Native American culture here in the US and the European culture travelled here? Does this mean I don't have any right to discuss how much my family's culture is based upon the British Isles and France? NO.

Many people in Morocco and Algeria are NOT EVEN ARAB. Hence the amazigh culture and the berber culture.

No one is denying that issue. HOWEVER, they are people of Arab descent. My husband is one of them.

Morocco and algeria have a completely different story and ethnic background and frankly in 1917 to 1922 in the berber highlands of Morocco the moroccan berbers FOUGHT AGAINST ARABIZaTION.

And to be honest, I would say most of Morocco compared to Algeria are two different stories. To compare Algerians to Moroccans is like comparing Canadians to Americans. We share some history, but there are differences. (Ask those on here who immigrated from Canada.) And, like a lot of Canadians I know who don't want to be lumped together with Americans, there are Moroccans who don't want to be lumped together with Algerians. So...be careful about doing what you proclaimed the Jordanian wives were doing -- shoving your SO's culture down the throat of someone else's and proclaiming it is the same. Heck...even within a country there can be huge differences. So...all you can speak of is your husband's family and the few people you have gotten to know in that country. IN THE END...I THINK THIS IS WHAT WE ALL HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU. SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES...HOWEVER...DON'T GENERALIZE THAT INTO AN ENTIRE SEX, RACE, OR REGION.

[mybackpages 0]

so do you perfer pics of funny cats or pics of canoli?

[♥JP♥ 5]

so do you perfer pics of funny cats or pics of canoli?

Neither. I prefer cookies.

[Aymerlu 3]

so do you perfer pics of funny cats or pics of canoli?

Neither. I prefer cookies.

Yum....my fav

[♥JP♥ 5]

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I admit I still have a lot to learn about MENA culture and I look forward to sharing that with my husband. Unfortunately, I won't be learning much of it here as you are setting a bad example. What's the point of discussing some of these questions if you're going to be insulted about it. There are a few things on this site that have been helpful, but the nastiness is beginning to outweigh the benefit.

I don't know how I set a bad example but that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. The only thing I have been insulted by is Wahrania calling all arab women spiteful. I think if I said something like that about american women all hell would break loose.

charles a little letter to allousa....

read

Allousa first let me help you with something so you have some perspective. First Jordanians and Palestinians are NOT experts on Moroccan culture and middle eastern arab culture is not the same as north african culture so arab or not, she cannot teach you about Morocco. Let me break it down.

The gulf has one set of culture

Palestine and Jordan have another ( with alot of palestinians living in Jordan and Lebanon......you see some of this also in the historical premis for civil war which has palgued lebanon)

Egypt has a completely OTHER set of rules and history beinng that they have had a different set of colonial influences,not being colonised per se but coptic and a whole other ancient history.

Then you have libyans who have an italian influence.

Tunisia which to this day has so many outside influences

Morocco has only been a protectorate and was bERBER not Arab to begin with. The arabic influence traveled to there

And then last of course is algeria.... a country actually that was roman,berber, celtic,phoenician,in the 6th century,large jewish population, and speaks arabic, tuareg,kabilye and chawwi,

The only thing the mid east did for algeria was after a 130 years of colonization by the French in 1962 Houari Boumedienne hired middle eastern and arabic people to come teach them arabic because NO ONE SPOKE ARAB FLUENTLY. They speak Darja ( now of course they all speak formal arabic) but in the early 60s even Ben Bella could not properly address the Egyptian congress. Several radical palestinian and egyptian teachers, some of them in exile from their own countries ( well we all know that palestine suffered immensely...other subject thank you) came i nto Algeria and imported some of their ideas and culture into algeria. Some very good. Some very very bad.. Between 1962 and the present there has been a conflict between the non arabic speaking kabilyes in the east and arabists that belittle and demean them and its only been recently that amazigh is being taught again ( other wise known as berber...do not call them arabs) They are not

Now for a jordanian to come onto your post and hold her self as an expernt on mena culture is absurd. Many people in Morocco and Algeria are NOT EVEN ARAB. Hence the amazigh culture and the berber culture. ( ask your husband to tell you the story of Kahina) I am just letting you know that being arab does not make one an expert on morocco because Morocco and algeria have a completely different story and ethnic background and frankly in 1917 to 1922 in the berber highlands of Morocco the moroccan berbers FOUGHT AGAINST ARABIZaTION. I think its presumtuous for someone to hold themseles up as arab and give you a lecture. Some people in Algeria are more closely related to the celts or basque than the arabs. And not all Algerians or Moroccans even speak arabic. So here we have some jordanian ( god bless jordan) telling you married to a Moroccan Allousa with a Moroccan daughter that you dont not MENA culture? Well you dont know JORDANIAN CULTURE ( neither o i) but there is a good chance that you are pretty familiar with Moroccan because you have a baby with one and are married to one. This is not to offend but to merely make a point...that being arab doesnt make you and expert on everyone who speaks arabic nor does being American make you and expert on the constitution. Some Americans are more knowledgable about foreign affairs and history as well as some arabs know tons about the history of the USA. Think for yourself and ignore harpies, especially ones who say they know everything. So Allousa, think for yourself girlfriend... You know tons and don't pay attention to know it alls. Your life experience is the best teacher

You know I am beginning to enjoy the fact that you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. Now if you go back and read, I have never claimed to be an expert or even know anything at all about Moroccan Culture. If you go back and read my posts, I have never included Morocco, Algeria, or any other North African country as part of the Middle East. I have never claimed to be an expert on MENA culture nor have I stated so. The statments I have made in this thread about MENA culture are by far the most common of them all.

And then you go on to say that so many people in Morocco and Algeria aren't even Arabs, so then why do you feel the need to insult Arab women so much??????? And now that you are done insulting Arab women you are insulting Palestinians again.

I never insulted all arab women.And you know that. You can villify pull quotes out of context and whatever you want. This is aim immigration board and I am here for immigration advice and support. You know very well what I meant with the post and you are very well aware that not all rules in Jordanian or Palestinian culture apply to North Africa. I do not think I need to elaborate about just how different North Africa is from Palestine. You never could fathom just how much some of the actions of pan arabists and radical thinkers from certain middle eastern countries have caused the deaths of thousands by asserting their interpretaion of religion and intellectual progressive thought into countries that have no relation to them. I do not have to say a thing about the palestinian conflict. I think you have plenty of thoughts on the matter and I am sure you will espouse them.

I look foward to the next lecture Dr. Berzeit . I just hope some sensitive soul on MENA does not run across the harpies before they find someone nice to talk to. I am quite used to it. I am sure you have plenty to say and I will continue to read and participate as I like. It is nice to for you to actually admit you don't know something. This is a first. ( hehehe)

[peezey 0]

I never insulted all arab women.And you know that. You can villify pull quotes out of context and whatever you want. This is aim immigration board and I am here for immigration advice and support. You know very well what I meant with the post and you are very well aware that not all rules in Jordanian or Palestinian culture apply to North Africa. I do not think I need to elaborate about just how different North Africa is from Palestine. You never could fathom just how much some of the actions of pan arabists and radical thinkers from certain middle eastern countries have caused the deaths of thousands by asserting their interpretaion of religion and intellectual progressive thought into countries that have no relation to them. I do not have to say a thing about the palestinian conflict. I think you have plenty of thoughts on the matter and I am sure you will espouse them.

I look foward to the next lecture Dr. Berzeit . I just hope some sensitive soul on MENA does not run across the harpies before they find someone nice to talk to. I am quite used to it. I am sure you have plenty to say and I will continue to read and participate as I like. It is nice to for you to actually admit you don't know something. This is a first. ( hehehe)

Now intellectual progressive thought has no place in the maghreb? Ahh, those secretly intellectually lazy maghrebi bastards have been waiting for Wahrania to let them off the hook.

[♥JP♥ 5]

I admit I still have a lot to learn about MENA culture and I look forward to sharing that with my husband. Unfortunately, I won't be learning much of it here as you are setting a bad example. What's the point of discussing some of these questions if you're going to be insulted about it. There are a few things on this site that have been helpful, but the nastiness is beginning to outweigh the benefit.

I don't know how I set a bad example but that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. The only thing I have been insulted by is Wahrania calling all arab women spiteful. I think if I said something like that about american women all hell would break loose.

charles a little letter to allousa....

read

Allousa first let me help you with something so you have some perspective. First Jordanians and Palestinians are NOT experts on Moroccan culture and middle eastern arab culture is not the same as north african culture so arab or not, she cannot teach you about Morocco. Let me break it down.

The gulf has one set of culture

Palestine and Jordan have another ( with alot of palestinians living in Jordan and Lebanon......you see some of this also in the historical premis for civil war which has palgued lebanon)

Egypt has a completely OTHER set of rules and history beinng that they have had a different set of colonial influences,not being colonised per se but coptic and a whole other ancient history.

Then you have libyans who have an italian influence.

Tunisia which to this day has so many outside influences

Morocco has only been a protectorate and was bERBER not Arab to begin with. The arabic influence traveled to there

And then last of course is algeria.... a country actually that was roman,berber, celtic,phoenician,in the 6th century,large jewish population, and speaks arabic, tuareg,kabilye and chawwi,

The only thing the mid east did for algeria was after a 130 years of colonization by the French in 1962 Houari Boumedienne hired middle eastern and arabic people to come teach them arabic because NO ONE SPOKE ARAB FLUENTLY. They speak Darja ( now of course they all speak formal arabic) but in the early 60s even Ben Bella could not properly address the Egyptian congress. Several radical palestinian and egyptian teachers, some of them in exile from their own countries ( well we all know that palestine suffered immensely...other subject thank you) came i nto Algeria and imported some of their ideas and culture into algeria. Some very good. Some very very bad.. Between 1962 and the present there has been a conflict between the non arabic speaking kabilyes in the east and arabists that belittle and demean them and its only been recently that amazigh is being taught again ( other wise known as berber...do not call them arabs) They are not

Now for a jordanian to come onto your post and hold her self as an expernt on mena culture is absurd. Many people in Morocco and Algeria are NOT EVEN ARAB. Hence the amazigh culture and the berber culture. ( ask your husband to tell you the story of Kahina) I am just letting you know that being arab does not make one an expert on morocco because Morocco and algeria have a completely different story and ethnic background and frankly in 1917 to 1922 in the berber highlands of Morocco the moroccan berbers FOUGHT AGAINST ARABIZaTION. I think its presumtuous for someone to hold themseles up as arab and give you a lecture. Some people in Algeria are more closely related to the celts or basque than the arabs. And not all Algerians or Moroccans even speak arabic. So here we have some jordanian ( god bless jordan) telling you married to a Moroccan Allousa with a Moroccan daughter that you dont not MENA culture? Well you dont know JORDANIAN CULTURE ( neither o i) but there is a good chance that you are pretty familiar with Moroccan because you have a baby with one and are married to one. This is not to offend but to merely make a point...that being arab doesnt make you and expert on everyone who speaks arabic nor does being American make you and expert on the constitution. Some Americans are more knowledgable about foreign affairs and history as well as some arabs know tons about the history of the USA. Think for yourself and ignore harpies, especially ones who say they know everything. So Allousa, think for yourself girlfriend... You know tons and don't pay attention to know it alls. Your life experience is the best teacher

You know I am beginning to enjoy the fact that you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. Now if you go back and read, I have never claimed to be an expert or even know anything at all about Moroccan Culture. If you go back and read my posts, I have never included Morocco, Algeria, or any other North African country as part of the Middle East. I have never claimed to be an expert on MENA culture nor have I stated so. The statments I have made in this thread about MENA culture are by far the most common of them all.

And then you go on to say that so many people in Morocco and Algeria aren't even Arabs, so then why do you feel the need to insult Arab women so much??????? And now that you are done insulting Arab women you are insulting Palestinians again.

I never insulted all arab women.And you know that. You can villify pull quotes out of context and whatever you want. This is aim immigration board and I am here for immigration advice and support. You know very well what I meant with the post and you are very well aware that not all rules in Jordanian or Palestinian culture apply to North Africa. I do not think I need to elaborate about just how different North Africa is from Palestine. You never could fathom just how much some of the actions of pan arabists and radical thinkers from certain middle eastern countries have caused the deaths of thousands by asserting their interpretaion of religion and intellectual progressive thought into countries that have no relation to them. I do not have to say a thing about the palestinian conflict. I think you have plenty of thoughts on the matter and I am sure you will espouse them.

I look foward to the next lecture Dr. Berzeit . I just hope some sensitive soul on MENA does not run across the harpies before they find someone nice to talk to. I am quite used to it. I am sure you have plenty to say and I will continue to read and participate as I like. It is nice to for you to actually admit you don't know something. This is a first. ( hehehe)

You are comletly unreal. Like MK, I am beginning to think you are on drugs or drunk. Nothing you say makes sense. None of your arugments are backed up. Everytime some makes a point for you to address you just add more mumbo jumbo into the mix.

What you said is written very clearly in black and white and was NOT taken out of context. You have yet to address all the venom you spewed about arab women. FIrst of all, I never NEVER said rules of Palestine or Jordan apply to North Africa. Nor have I ever said anything about culture in North Africa, but I guess you are still having reading comprehension problems otherwise you would have already figured that one out. Why dont you pick a subject and stick to it. Is this about the Palestinian conflict now?

Instead of continuing to insult different races of people and arab women, why don't you address the posts that have been made to you? And like you said, if you are infact Berber and are talking about North African culture then what the heck do you know about Arab culture and how do you even have the knowledge to dispute anything I am saying.

Jordanian and Palestinian are not the only cultures that are similar. The entire Levant fits into this category. Do you think that the boundries that were drawn up less than 100 years ago have anything to do with the culture that the entire region shares?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Palestine's history is far more reaching than any other Arab/MENA country, IMO. I mean the "Cradle of Civilization" is in their backyard for heaven sakes!

And to suggest that Palestinians are adding the "radical" element to MENA! Are you sure about that??? Last time I read about the spreading of radical Islamists (admittedly, I haven't check all of their passports), but I do believe they are from just about every other country in the MENA area. Not once have I ever agreed with the radical tactics of terrorists, because I believe there are better ways to voice opposition, yet Hamas and Hezbollah have done more for the basic needs of the people than any other country...including their own neighboring Arab countries! And as stated before this is really not the topic to get into this, but I will say, if you are going to bring up the spread of radicalization, don't forget to add how the U.S. Foreign Policy has been involved in sparking a good bit of the turmoil that is there today.

Actually Iraq is the cradle of civilization and the birth place of Abraham. But there are apparently no americans petitioning Iraqis at this time to pipe in. IRAQ .... the fertile crescent and the plain of mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. As far as Hamas and Hezbollah being charitable organizations , I will bow out on that one. I would love to see the red crescent listed. I think that qualifies as a little more charitable than the previous two. Um.... I won't be getting dressed in c4 anytime soon, at least not this week. cheers

[peezey 0]

She isn't berber. Just loca.

[♥JP♥ 5]

She isn't berber. Just loca.

She has claimed to be Berber in VJ chat. There were several MENA members in the chat room at that time that can confirm this.

[ya falaha! 0]

I was there and yes she said she was Berber.

There was a lot of Palestinian bashing going on that night, too. It was kinda sickening.

She isn't berber. Just loca.

She has claimed to be Berber in VJ chat. There were several MENA members in the chat room at that time that can confirm this.

Edited August 9, 2007 by moody

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I never insulted all arab women.And you know that. You can villify pull quotes out of context and whatever you want. This is aim immigration board and I am here for immigration advice and support. You know very well what I meant with the post and you are very well aware that not all rules in Jordanian or Palestinian culture apply to North Africa. I do not think I need to elaborate about just how different North Africa is from Palestine. You never could fathom just how much some of the actions of pan arabists and radical thinkers from certain middle eastern countries have caused the deaths of thousands by asserting their interpretaion of religion and intellectual progressive thought into countries that have no relation to them. I do not have to say a thing about the palestinian conflict. I think you have plenty of thoughts on the matter and I am sure you will espouse them.

I look foward to the next lecture Dr. Berzeit . I just hope some sensitive soul on MENA does not run across the harpies before they find someone nice to talk to. I am quite used to it. I am sure you have plenty to say and I will continue to read and participate as I like. It is nice to for you to actually admit you don't know something. This is a first. ( hehehe)

Now intellectual progressive thought has no place in the maghreb? Ahh, those secretly intellectually lazy maghrebi bastards have been waiting for Wahrania to let them off the hook.

You know very well what I am talking about in reference to the influx of palestinian teachers and members of the egyptian brotherhood that went to teach in Algeria in the 1960s. stop your ####### peezy.... You know very well what I was talking about . Pan arabism cause the intellectual vaccum which led to the civil war that killed over a 100,000 between 1992 and 2002. Pan arabism is the belief the entire world should be united under one caliphate. Unfortunately when you have a melange of 10 different cultures, importing radicalism and arabization at all costs is going to make for a blood bath

[peezey 0]

Palestine's history is far more reaching than any other Arab/MENA country, IMO. I mean the "Cradle of Civilization" is in their backyard for heaven sakes!

And to suggest that Palestinians are adding the "radical" element to MENA! Are you sure about that??? Last time I read about the spreading of radical Islamists (admittedly, I haven't check all of their passports), but I do believe they are from just about every other country in the MENA area. Not once have I ever agreed with the radical tactics of terrorists, because I believe there are better ways to voice opposition, yet Hamas and Hezbollah have done more for the basic needs of the people than any other country...including their own neighboring Arab countries! And as stated before this is really not the topic to get into this, but I will say, if you are going to bring up the spread of radicalization, don't forget to add how the U.S. Foreign Policy has been involved in sparking a good bit of the turmoil that is there today.

Actually Iraq is the cradle of civilization and the birth place of Abraham. But there are apparently no americans petitioning Iraqis at this time to pipe in. IRAQ .... the fertile crescent and the plain of mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. As far as Hamas and Hezbollah being charitable organizations , I will bow out on that one. I would love to see the red crescent listed. I think that qualifies as a little more charitable than the previous two. Um.... I won't be getting dressed in c4 anytime soon, at least not this week. cheers

So it is reading comprehension that is your problem? What part of "back yard" do you not understand?

You seem to enjoy insulting Palestinians, and MENA in general. There are many, many topics in OT you can post this drivel in and get lots of praise for.

[♥JP♥ 5]

Yes she seems to enjoy bashing people quite a bit. Pretty hypocritical of her to call other people bullies, dont you think? I guess a bully in her opinion is someone that won't let her spew venom about Arabs and Palestinians.

I was there and yes she said she was Berber.

There was a lot of Palestinian bashing going on that night, too. It was kinda sickening.

She isn't berber. Just loca.

She has claimed to be Berber in VJ chat. There were several MENA members in the chat room at that time that can confirm this.