And speaking of jealousy....

[chaishai 1]

"Algerians and Moroccans who live in France in my opinion are much more cosmopolitan, connected to French culture both in language and cuisine.If you go to a moroccan restaurant or Algerian restaurant you can taste a blend of several cultures. I find that very cosmopolitan."

I know thats your opinion but I completely disagree!!!!! I have been in the homes of quite a few people in morocco that I would say are "cosmopolitan" and I have seen some VERY non "cosmopolitan" moroccans, north africans, etc in france. I think there are "cosmopolitan" and "non cosmopolitan" people everywhere!!!!

All of these posts are making me want to drink a cosmopolitan!

[morocco4ever 63]

If it isn't jealousy what is it then? Purhaps prejudice? The fact is that you can tell by the look in their faces if they are merely curious. But they don't try to hide a look of some sort of nastiness. Maybe it isn't jealousy, but sometimes thats all we can attribute it too in many cases when you have done nothing worse than exist.

Maybe they are offended. Maybe the person getting the look did something distasteful, something you don't even realize is distasteful, but nonetheless was offensive or at the very least nasty-look-worthy.

We have given dozens of reasons but people continue to insist on this jealousy idea. It's really shallow and self-serving to continue this line of thinking.

Hmmmm....I was walking, similar to everyone else. Similar clothes as well. The only difference is that I am blonde. Thats it....all MENA women are hateful and spiteful towards blondes....yeah thats the ticket!

Actually I am hateful and spiteful and jealous of MENA women. They wake up in the morning and already have a face. I have to apply mine.

For all the italian americans out there, I present the best of both worlds - a chocolate chip cannoli

Never had a cannoli, but it looks delicious, outside of the chocolate chips that is.

[♥JP♥ 5]

I admit I still have a lot to learn about MENA culture and I look forward to sharing that with my husband. Unfortunately, I won't be learning much of it here as you are setting a bad example. What's the point of discussing some of these questions if you're going to be insulted about it. There are a few things on this site that have been helpful, but the nastiness is beginning to outweigh the benefit.

I don't know how I set a bad example but that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. The only thing I have been insulted by is Wahrania calling all arab women spiteful. I think if I said something like that about american women all hell would break loose.

charles a little letter to allousa....

read

Allousa first let me help you with something so you have some perspective. First Jordanians and Palestinians are NOT experts on Moroccan culture and middle eastern arab culture is not the same as north african culture so arab or not, she cannot teach you about Morocco. Let me break it down.

The gulf has one set of culture

Palestine and Jordan have another ( with alot of palestinians living in Jordan and Lebanon......you see some of this also in the historical premis for civil war which has palgued lebanon)

Egypt has a completely OTHER set of rules and history beinng that they have had a different set of colonial influences,not being colonised per se but coptic and a whole other ancient history.

Then you have libyans who have an italian influence.

Tunisia which to this day has so many outside influences

Morocco has only been a protectorate and was bERBER not Arab to begin with. The arabic influence traveled to there

And then last of course is algeria.... a country actually that was roman,berber, celtic,phoenician,in the 6th century,large jewish population, and speaks arabic, tuareg,kabilye and chawwi,

The only thing the mid east did for algeria was after a 130 years of colonization by the French in 1962 Houari Boumedienne hired middle eastern and arabic people to come teach them arabic because NO ONE SPOKE ARAB FLUENTLY. They speak Darja ( now of course they all speak formal arabic) but in the early 60s even Ben Bella could not properly address the Egyptian congress. Several radical palestinian and egyptian teachers, some of them in exile from their own countries ( well we all know that palestine suffered immensely...other subject thank you) came i nto Algeria and imported some of their ideas and culture into algeria. Some very good. Some very very bad.. Between 1962 and the present there has been a conflict between the non arabic speaking kabilyes in the east and arabists that belittle and demean them and its only been recently that amazigh is being taught again ( other wise known as berber...do not call them arabs) They are not

Now for a jordanian to come onto your post and hold her self as an expernt on mena culture is absurd. Many people in Morocco and Algeria are NOT EVEN ARAB. Hence the amazigh culture and the berber culture. ( ask your husband to tell you the story of Kahina) I am just letting you know that being arab does not make one an expert on morocco because Morocco and algeria have a completely different story and ethnic background and frankly in 1917 to 1922 in the berber highlands of Morocco the moroccan berbers FOUGHT AGAINST ARABIZaTION. I think its presumtuous for someone to hold themseles up as arab and give you a lecture. Some people in Algeria are more closely related to the celts or basque than the arabs. And not all Algerians or Moroccans even speak arabic. So here we have some jordanian ( god bless jordan) telling you married to a Moroccan Allousa with a Moroccan daughter that you dont not MENA culture? Well you dont know JORDANIAN CULTURE ( neither o i) but there is a good chance that you are pretty familiar with Moroccan because you have a baby with one and are married to one. This is not to offend but to merely make a point...that being arab doesnt make you and expert on everyone who speaks arabic nor does being American make you and expert on the constitution. Some Americans are more knowledgable about foreign affairs and history as well as some arabs know tons about the history of the USA. Think for yourself and ignore harpies, especially ones who say they know everything. So Allousa, think for yourself girlfriend... You know tons and don't pay attention to know it alls. Your life experience is the best teacher

You know I am beginning to enjoy the fact that you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. Now if you go back and read, I have never claimed to be an expert or even know anything at all about Moroccan Culture. If you go back and read my posts, I have never included Morocco, Algeria, or any other North African country as part of the Middle East. I have never claimed to be an expert on MENA culture nor have I stated so. The statments I have made in this thread about MENA culture are by far the most common of them all.

And then you go on to say that so many people in Morocco and Algeria aren't even Arabs, so then why do you feel the need to insult Arab women so much??????? And now that you are done insulting Arab women you are insulting Palestinians again.

[allousa 1]

I guess the only safe posts to comment on anymore are the "It's Thursday!" threads.

nope...the real trick is to accept the absurdity and have fun with it. You can always change the subject....

For example:

Everything I learned about Morocco and MENA came from Secret Agent Squirrel and his sidekick Morocco Mole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVmX-2ijN6k

Which of course will now lead me down the tangent of the US army recruiting squirrels to spy on iran.

And then further on a tangent to ramble about how my husband would love to get a flying squirrel as a pet.

But then I wonder how the squirrel will get along with our future cat mish mish.

Mish mish is apparently means apricot and is a common name for cats in Egypt

And now I'm hungry and want lunch.

As you can see, tangents are lots of fun with pictures.

EXCELLENT POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Wahrania -- ####### are you babbling about ??? Again, your attempt at a reply doesn’t address any of the actual issues raised. In fact it has so little to do with anything actually posted in the thread, I’m having a hard time just trying to stop laughing long enough to type out a response.

I am simply saying that Jordanians and Palestinians are not experts on all MENA countries nor should they pass themselves off as such.

Um who said any of that ? (Other than you yourself.) Post the quotes, or stifle your BS.

The mid east is another universe compared to North Africa and even though they sympathise with the plight of the palestinians they do not share the same history. Algeria cared so much about Palestine that they gave over 35 million in the last couple of years to the Palestinian authority. But Algeria and Morocco have both suffered from outside influences importing terror into their countries. Outside countries funding extremism,building dissent etc.

Palestinians the most cosmopolitan? Who says? I have met lots of them. Some of them couldnt show you Europe on a map. I must be missing somethingBut som here. Iwill say that many of the arab worlds great minds are palestinian. That does not mean that all palestinians have always contributed to other arab countries in a postitive manner. Far from that, but thats a different thread and a different topic more related to the development of radical terrorist groups in countries by outcast intellectuals who were thrown out of other mena countries ( different topic altogether)

I see Allousa has already addressed your pathetic attempt to paint Palestinians as "importers" of terror in Algeria and Morocco. Moving on....

Are you completely dense ? Or are you pretending not to understand plain and simple English in order to avoid acknowledging your egregious errors of fact ? *You* said that Palestinians (and Jordanians) have an entirely “separate” culture, insinuating that they could not understand the culture of other ME/NA countries. Don’t you even remember what you post ??? Here are your exact words:

First Jordanians and Palestinians are NOT experts on Moroccan culture and middle eastern arab culture is not the same as north african culture so arab or not, she cannot teach you about Morocco. Let me break it down.

The gulf has one set of culture

Palestine and Jordan have another ( with alot of palestinians living in Jordan and Lebanon......you see some of this also in the historical premis for civil war which has palgued lebanon)

Egypt has a completely OTHER set of rules and history beinng that they have had a different set of colonial influences,not being colonised per se but coptic and a whole other ancient history.

Then you have libyans who have an italian influence.

Tunisia which to this day has so many outside influences

…

Now for a jordanian to come onto your post and hold her self as an expernt on mena culture is absurd

….

I think its presumtuous for someone to hold themseles up as arab and give you a lecture.

Unfortunately for you and your completely lame argument, the fact is: there as many (or even more) Palestinians living OUTSIDE Palestine than inside. As I’ve already told you, there are millions of Palestinians living in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Lebanon, Egypt, the U.S., Europe, South America, and MORE. My point is: contrary to your absurd claims, VAST NUMBERS of Palestinians have extensive first-hand EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE of these other cultures – and *especially* in regard to North Africa, the Gulf, and Egypt.

Please, Wahrania, tell us which other ME/NA country has *half* of its population living abroad ? This is why I’m telling you that Palestinians are probably the most “cosmopolitan” of all ME/NA people – half their people are living in other countries INCLUDING the Gulf and North Africa. Nearly EVERY Palestinian family has members living abroad, either as refugees or working or studying. Palestinians have the highest percentage of Ph.D.s of ANY people in ANY ME/NA country – higher than that of the general American population. So don’t try to paint Palestinians as some kind of naïve provincials living in some kind of isolated backwater with no idea or exposure to “the culture” in other ME/NA countries, or the rest of the world.

You are completely out of your element here. Why don’t you use that Google you keep talking about to actually CHECK some facts before you post more nonsense.

Algerians and Moroccans who live in France in my opinion are much more cosmopolitan, connected to French culture both in language and cuisine.If you go to a moroccan restaurant or Algerian restaurant you can taste a blend of several cultures. I find that very cosmopolitan. I will say it again. Not all mena countries have an arab history and arab culture is not pervasive through out all of North Africa. The entire east side of Algeria is chaawi and kabilye and they are constantly at odds with arabization and do not want arabic as their language. They are not veiled there and their music culture and history reveals a constant fight and resistance against arabization.

Of COURSE there is an enormous French influence in Morocco and Algeria – DUH again. This is so completely obvious that I can’t believe you are writing it as if it’s some kind of revelation. As ANYone should know, Morocco and Algeria were French colonies for more than a hundred years. But the Arab influence there is MUCH older – based on more than a thousand years of cultural exchange. You need to wake up and smell the qahweh.

Also, face the hard cold fact: there are not nearly as many Moroccans living in other countries as there are Palestinians -- only about 3 million Moroccans out of a total population of some 30 million. Your attempt to compare/contrast the two populations in terms of “being cosmopolitan” by listing the obvious Moroccan familiarity with French culture is completely missing the point. I'm telling you that Palestinians as a GROUP are FAR more versed in North African/Gulf (and other) cultures than you want to admit.

I like coming to the boards to learn and grow but after 7 years of constant study ( 4 additional years of history at the college level) I would say that my knowledge is adequate enough to tell you not to tell people on the boards that they do not know arabic culture. Jordanian, palestinian perhaps. I do not think you should take the roll of lecturing to people about what they know and dont know. You are pan arabist and pan arabism suits palestinians fine but not people who are not even ethnically or poltically tied to an arab background. I think you are very well versesd in pan arabism and could teach everyone a great deal about it. I frankly find the entire thing sad because you can talk over the heads of the average reader and unless they had a background to understand what you are alluding to , they just might buy all of it. I am not. I respect your understanding of palestinian culture. I do not think for one minute you can speak for all mena countries. Many inside some of the mena countries resent pan arabism and fight against it ( google amazigh and resistance, tizi ouzou, lounes matoub)

Again, ####### are you talking about ? Which members did I say “don’t know Arabic culture” ??? I’ve never even said ANYthing about “pan-Arabism,” nor have I claimed to “speak for all ME/NA countries.” I’m starting to think you’re either high or drunk because you can’t seem to follow the actual points made in this thread. I have a piece of advice for you – try to sober up and pay closer attention before you attempt to debate issues of which you have absolutely NO clue.

If I’m talking over YOUR head, well, I must say I’m not surprised. But don’t you dare insult everyone else on the board by trying to portray them as just as academically challenged as yourself -- no one else seems to be sharing your remarkable difficulty in comprehending my posts.

BTW I meant to say before that your little girl is absolutely beautiful.

Edited August 9, 2007 by wife_of_mahmoud

[♥JP♥ 5]

[doodlebug 3]

OMG

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

LOL this is like one of the best threads for forum graphics EVER !!!!

I was ROFLing @ me4musa's contribution, too

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I hereby hijack this thread in the name of lolzcats everywhere

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Definitely need to see more of this guy posting !

[♥JP♥ 5]

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Heyyyyyyyyyyyy those are my bikini cats from last summer !!!!!

[morocco4ever 63]

Heyyyyyyyyyyyy those are my bikini cats from last summer !!!!!

OMG....

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Thread cats are funny !

[morocco4ever 63]

Isn't there some sort of copyright laws here?