Alec Baldwin fires prop gun on movie set, killing cinematographer

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

35 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

A lot of sense in here.  Comments?

Basic firearm 101. Treat every gun as if it's loaded 

[TBoneTX 45,305]

True.  I do think that he should be prosecuted.

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

A lot of sense in here.  Comments?

I'm reading new stories from several sources that contradict that story.  As much as I dislike the guy, this may be a case of karma coming back to bite him, rather that complete negligence on his part.  Either way, he could be up for manslaughter.

 

Right or wrong, apparently movie sets rely on certain people to check the guns, and the movie armorer may have made a mistake.  Supposedly, an assistant director yelled "Cold Gun" when handed the gun to Baldwin.  That still does not excuse Baldwin.

 

Apparently, the movie armorer is a youthful female, second film as head armorer, and the daughter of an armorer famous in the industry.

 

On 10/23/2021 at 8:21 AM, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

It looks more and more like it was a live round, not just the gas discharge from a blank, which can be dangerous. 

 

Why would you need live rounds on a movie set?

That is what I am not following.  I could see why a "hot gun" with live rounds might be used for a few scenes under tight supervision, but otherwise, why would a "hot gun" be around during the routine filming?

[yuna628 9,676]

From all the articles that have leaked out over the weekend... here's what' being said now:

 

1) How did live ammo get loaded into a prop gun when there would be no need to fire live rounds? Apparently, the director and some crew liked to go 'out back' and go shooting from time to time for 'fun'. Bullets with live rounds and prop blanks were kept in the same area. There will be a whole host of new questions, such as did any of the people that would fire live rounds, have the proper license to discharge weapons.

 

2) The armorer (the person in charge of weapons and safety) was only 24, inexperienced, and routinely made mistakes on this set and others - that included multiple firearm discharges on the set of Rust, and previously putting a live loaded weapon into the hands of an 11 year old actor. She had previously said handling bullets was 'not a thing she liked', made her nervous. Staff said she would often load weapons improperly and was careless holding them. She is the daughter of a famous armorer. She has only been trying out guns since 16 years old, when it seemed like her dad wanted her to take on the business when he would retire some day. Her only other experience was being in media studies.

 

3) The AD is also supposed to 'sign off' on and check 'prop guns' before they are handed to the actor. No attempt was made, and the AD is known for being a real piece of work.

 

4) It is unlikely that an actor would be charged. I don't know of any case where that's happened. However, because Baldwin is producer some responsibility will lay with him in other ways. I've read numerous actors that say the protocol is the armor controls the situation at all times, and is supposed to personally show the 'empty' gun before placing it into their hands. Some actors are aware when corners get cut and will feel unsafe, so some of them do take up safety classes and learn how to check a gun themselves... but this is not in every case. Many films/TV utilize rubber guns and add VFX later on. This is very expensive though, and some directors will claim they can't be 'realistic' enough for audiences without using guns. I think John Wick's producers and others dispel such claims - the reality is some in Hollywood are very cheap. There is no doubt he will be sued for negligence or wrongful death civil court.

 

5) This film was very low budget, and likely would be funded put up on a streaming service. Some have said especially during COVID cost cutting is paramount, and productions for streaming services often do not have the experience or funds to be able to keep safety in check. Several well known armorers refused to take part in Rust, citing the sheer amount of real firearms used, lack of experienced crew, and lack of pay.

 

6) Could there have been someone with a grudge? The union members and more experienced team had all left - they had been forced out because of severe safety concerns, lack of pay, lack of a hotel (some being forced to sleep in their cars or travel 50 miles in the desert in the dark to find the nearest 'roach motel')

 

7) Several misfirings and live round accidents had already happened on this set. People were super nervous. There were no established safety protocols.

 

8 ) Why did Baldwin fire at the camera? We don't know that he fired. In some instances, this same gun had 'gone off' randomly when touched. I don't believe he intended to fire at the camera even if he thought it was 'cold'. He had pulled it from his holster successfully once, the second time was not so lucky. He is also lucky he did not shoot himself. Nevertheless, the police would need to look at if he was goofing off with the gun in some way. Still, he genuinely blindly believed (as many actors do) that the gun was unloaded. He did not intend to kill anyone.

 

9) None of the crew was prepping to shoot a scene where a 'blank round' would be fired. There was no safety crew, stunt crew, or armorer on set. There was no shielding. The cinematographer, cameraman, and director were huddled together, while Baldwin wanted to practice drawing a 'cold' gun from his holster.

 

Experienced armorers and stuntmen are absolutely stunned and furious by everything that's being discussed in this case... but it does not surprise them. They've been seeing more and more how bad things have been happening on set. Using experienced, well paid, union crews are important in good productions because it ensures safety for all involved. It was only a matter of time for something to happen, they've been warning.

[Boiler 45,525]

You do point a gun at somebody no matter what else, so everything else could have gone wrong and nothing would have happened.

[yuna628 9,676]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

You do point a gun at somebody no matter what else, so everything else could have gone wrong and nothing would have happened.

So do you advocate the retirement of all prop guns in Hollywood and the full utilization of rubber guns with post production VFX (some use airsofts not sure how safe that is either)? There are only two prop gun makers. Apparently they were too cheap and didn't think they could afford them making a historically accurate rubber gun.

[Boiler 45,525]

Sounds like the gun is an over focus, could have been say something say involving cars, badly managed badly run.

[Mike E 11,739]

14 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

So do you advocate the retirement of all prop guns in Hollywood and the full utilization of rubber guns with post production VFX (some use airsofts not sure how safe that is either)? There are only two prop gun makers. Apparently they were too cheap and didn't think they could afford them making a historically accurate rubber gun.

I can buy a replica “old west” non firing revolver for under $100. 
 

If there are scenes that require shooting blanks then don’t shoot scenes with the barrel pointed at anything or anyone live; whether it is behind the camera or another actor or animal in the scene.  Such weapons should be under lock and key until needed for the scene.  
 

If such scenes are needed then indeed use special effects. 
 

 

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

If you search the armorer Hannah Gutierrez and add citizens free press to the search string, there is an "interesting" tweeted video.  (Cannot post it here due to the lyrics of the song)

 

As others here have said, gun safety 101... EVERY gun is loaded, every time I pick it up, until I clear it.  Period.  Even if you clear a weapon while I watch and you hand it to me, it is loaded until I clear it myself.  Period.  "hot gun / cold gun" are cute terms that mean nothing IMO.

 

It's going to be an interesting tale before it is fully told, I suspect.

 

 

 

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

15 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Why did Baldwin fire at the camera?

I had thought about why he would point towards them.  Perhaps it was supposed to be the way a scene was shot.  There are scenes like that sometimes, where the audience has the gun pointed right at them.  Just speculation.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

Legal experts weigh in on Alec Baldwin’s possible liability in tragic on-set shooting of Halyna Hutchins

 

https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-could-face-liability-in-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins-legal-experts/

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

Madness. This is what happens when you put a bunch of anti gun mdl in charge of firearms. One good NRA safety trainer on the set and this would never have happened.  Heck if anyone with gun training had been in Baldwin's place it never would have happened  

 

Interesting people like Baldwin advocate for extensive back ground checks and training to own a gun, bit its ok for a bunch of elitist with no training to handle guns.

 

Live firing then mixing and matching.  No one with training would have , not cleared the weapon themselves or pointed it at someone. 

 

 

Gun that killed Halyna Hutchins used for leisure shooting by crew the morning of the accident: report

 

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/gun-killed-halyna-hutchins-leisure-shooting-morning-accident

[Mike E 11,739]

Madness indeed.
 

I’ve pointed lots of fake / toy guns at people in my life.  
 

I’ve held and fired real guns.  
 

I don’t point real guns at people, period. 

 

The average emotional development on the set of that production seems to have been about age 7.  Baldwin was supposed to have been the adult. Old people  like he and me are supposed to stand up say: “this is reckless  and this stops now”.  

[Dashinka 24,512]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Madness indeed.
 

I’ve pointed lots of fake / toy guns at people in my life.  
 

I’ve held and fired real guns.  
 

I don’t point real guns at people, period. 

 

The average emotional development on the set of that production seems to have been about age 7.  Baldwin was supposed to have been the adult. Old people  like he and me are supposed to stand up say: “this is reckless  and this stops now”.  

Being the Producer as well as the last person that could have verified the firearm was in fact "cold" could put Baldwin in a world of hurt regardless of how many tears he sheds.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]