Occupation 101

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I would think that your views are as slanted in the other direction as ours are in the pro Israel point of view, that we receive from the Western media.

I do believe that Israel is willing to negotiate with the "real" govt of the Palestinians, if such a govt exists.

Maybe after the Palestinians are finished with their own internal conflicts, that a 'real' govt will emerge. I sure hope so. I have worked with many ppl from that part of the world and they are good decent ppl, and they are able to see another point of view after living in the US for several years.

Oh my goodness here comes a prime example of exactly what I'm talking about.

Desert Fox, who do you think the "real" government of the Palestinian Authority is ? You DO know, don't you, that there was an election last year ?

In this completely open election, closely monitored by international observers and universally recognized as free and fair, the Palestinian people exercised their democratic rights and made their choice at the ballot box. In both Gaza and the West Bank, Palestinian voters overwhelmingly chose Hamas candidates to represent them as their elected leaders. Hamas -- which was even encouraged by the U.S. to take part in the elections -- won a majority of Parliament seats and the constitutional right to select the prime minister and form a new government.

Problem is, this wasn't how Israel and the U.S. planned it. So instead of honoring the results, they have moved to punish the winners and empower the losers to deny the legitimacy of that democratic election, and even replace it. Fatah militias, along with Israeli troops, went about arresting and kidnapping members of Hamas in the West Bank, even attempting to topple the Hamas powerbase in Gaza. However, they failed miserably.

This is the "internal conflict" to which you refer, and it's all been created by the interference of the United States and Israel.

Forcibly substituting an appointed leadership to replace the constitutionally elected government requires a total abandonment of the rule of law and democracy.

So who is the "real" government here to which you refer ? Where is the glorious "freedom and democracy" President Bush brags about bringing to the Middle East ?

Here is some more irony for you: The position of Palestinian Prime Minister did not even exist under the original constitution of the Palestine Authority. It was added in March 2003 at the insistence of the United States -- it wanted a counterweight to then-President Yasser Arafat.

As a result, the 2005 elections meant Abbas was forced to share power with Ismail Haniya, the new Hamas prime minister.

So.... despite its claims to "support democracy and free elections," the U.S. has continually tried to undermine the democratically elected Palestinian government. It was because of U.S. pressure that Abbas refused Hamas' repeated invitations to form a national-unity government that would include Fatah.

As Robert Malley (former National Security Council member and special assistant for Arab-Israeli Affairs in the Clinton administration) put it -- "almost every decision the United States has made to interfere with Palestinian politics has boomeranged." But some people just never learn....

Oh and one more thing about which you seem to have no clue: Abbas (and his party, Fatah) -- you know, the ones now being pushed so strongly by the U.S. and Israel ? These are the very same people with whom Israel has refused to negotiate for the past 4 and half years. Abbas served as Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority in 2003, and has been the president since January 2005.

During his tenure, Abbas has repeatedly called for peace, offering strict security guarantees for Israel -- including the dismantlement of militias -- in return for an independent state on the 22% of historic Palestine occupied by Israel since 1967, and has even expressed his willingness to accept minor and reciprocal border adjustments. Polls show that a majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip would accept such an agreement.

However, Israel has repeatedly refused that offer, insisting on its right to annex large swaths of West Bank territory -- including Arab East Jerusalem -- in a way that would make a contiguous and viable Palestinian state impossible. Abbas could not get Israel to release Palestinian political prisoners, or even lift a single checkpoint.

It's been one giant joke.

Now Desert Fox -- I have no real expectations that you'll care to brush up on the actual history of events and educate yourself to the facts. I'm just posting this for the benefit of others who still have the desire to understand what has actually happened.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

As a result, the 2005 elections meant Abbas was forced to share power with Ismail Haniya, the new Hamas prime minister.

Typo -- should be 2006.

[doodlebug 3]

[desert_fox 32]

Nope...not interested in spending one minute of my time to learn anything about that part of the world, as I already have my own impressions, and dont want to spend time in twisting facts around. As long as they keep it internal to Palestine, the religious crazies can spend al day long killing each other until someone emerges as the winner. I do know that Israel will defend itself if attacked, and it does so quite effectively.

[allousa 1]

WOM,

"Forcibly substituting an appointed leadership to replace the constitutionally elected government requires a total abandonment of the rule of law and democracy. "

This is one of the most eloquent words I have read to describe this situation.

It is very sad that people wish to pass judgment on a people and a conflict and choose to be willingly ignorant of the situation.

Inshallah, their will be peace and equality for everyone in that religion.

[doodlebug 3]

Nope...not interested in spending one minute of my time to learn anything about that part of the world, as I already have my own impressions, and dont want to spend time in twisting facts around. As long as they keep it internal to Palestine, the religious crazies can spend al day long killing each other until someone emerges as the winner. I do know that Israel will defend itself if attacked, and it does so quite effectively.

And as long as people with your viewpoint exist in the US there will be people like Alquaeda yearning to blow us all to smithereens

[peezey 0]

Reading is always a good thing

As far as people not being educated about the history -- well, I guess I would call it "mis-educated." There has been such an overwhelmingly pro-Zionist slant to mainstream American news coverage -- it's so pathetic that a lot of people don't even understand who is occupying who. Most of the time, the word "occupation" is not even mentioned, much less "illegal settlements." Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has done extensive studies of this subject -- you can read their reports about it at http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=13

I would think that your views are as slanted in the other direction as ours are in the pro Israel point of view, that we receive from the Western media.

I do believe that Israel is willing to negotiate with the "real" govt of the Palestinians, if such a govt exists.

Maybe after the Palestinians are finished with their own internal conflicts, that a 'real' govt will emerge. I sure hope so. I have worked with many ppl from that part of the world and they are good decent ppl, and they are able to see another point of view after living in the US for several years.

You mean the real government that the Palestinians elected but the US refused to allow to take power?

[peezey 0]

Nope...not interested in spending one minute of my time to learn anything about that part of the world, as I already have my own impressions, and dont want to spend time in twisting facts around. As long as they keep it internal to Palestine, the religious crazies can spend al day long killing each other until someone emerges as the winner. I do know that Israel will defend itself if attacked, and it does so quite effectively.

This would make me laugh if it wasn't so sickening. At least you admit to your ignorance and bigottry. And, for the record, "religious crazies" aren't fighting right now. These are political parties, one rightfully elected by the people, and one corruptively propped up by the US.

[allousa 1]

WOM,

"Forcibly substituting an appointed leadership to replace the constitutionally elected government requires a total abandonment of the rule of law and democracy. "

This is one of the most eloquent words I have read to describe this situation.

It is very sad that people wish to pass judgment on a people and a conflict and choose to be willingly ignorant of the situation.

Inshallah, their will be peace and equality for everyone in that religion.

Yikes...BIG TYPO...

I MEANT to say....Inshallah, there will be peace and equality for everyone in that REGION!!!!

[desert_fox 32]

This would make me laugh if it wasn't so sickening. At least you admit to your ignorance and bigottry. And, for the record, "religious crazies" aren't fighting right now. These are political parties, one rightfully elected by the people, and one corruptively propped up by the US.

thank for explaining it to me...now I understand...just suprizes that the other 300 million ppl in the US dont get it.

so the crazies running Gaza are the duly elected govt??...or is it the other ones??

yanno...the Palestinians that I have worked with...dont even care about this stuff...they work side by side with ppl from all countries, including Jews, and have no problems getting along. They are just glad to be out of there. Maybe in another 1000 years, things may get resolved.

[allousa 1]

Nope...not interested in spending one minute of my time to learn anything about that part of the world, as I already have my own impressions, and dont want to spend time in twisting facts around. As long as they keep it internal to Palestine, the religious crazies can spend al day long killing each other until someone emerges as the winner. I do know that Israel will defend itself if attacked, and it does so quite effectively.

This would make me laugh if it wasn't so sickening. At least you admit to your ignorance and bigottry. And, for the record, "religious crazies" aren't fighting right now. These are political parties, one rightfully elected by the people, and one corruptively propped up by the US.

For once, Peezey, I wholeheartedly agree with you!

[palilover 1]

As long as people are thinking so ignorantly, Desert Fox, this sitaution will not be only in Palestine. It will (and has spread with the war on terror) to other regions of the world.

While one must work side by side and get along with others, it is sad to see that many immigrants (not just palestinian) forget wher ethey came from. They come here and get wrapped up in the life that they forget the life back home, the other people who are/may be suffering. The ones taht take news of theri mother countries to heart are the ones that still have families there I think. Many others forget. NEver a good idea to forget where you've come from...whether you are American, Palistinian, or otherwise. Everyone starts somewhere and everyone has their own roots...whatever or where ever they may be...

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Nope...not interested in spending one minute of my time to learn anything about that part of the world, as I already have my own impressions, and dont want to spend time in twisting facts around. As long as they keep it internal to Palestine, the religious crazies can spend al day long killing each other until someone emerges as the winner. I do know that Israel will defend itself if attacked, and it does so quite effectively.

Well there you have it, folks. Desert Fox freely admits he doesn't know anything about "that part of the world," nor is he even interested in learning anything. Yet he keeps posting his inanities, because he doesn't want to "spend time in twisting facts around."

LOL.

It's hilarious that he would even mention "religious crazies".... Desert Fox obviously has nary a clue as to who's squatting on appropriated Palestinian land in the illegal settlements all over the West Bank, heavily armed and guarded by Israeli troops -- and who happen to be, by the way, one of the biggest instigators of the conflict.

"Impressions." Tee hee.

[doodlebug 3]

Nope...not interested in spending one minute of my time to learn anything about that part of the world, as I already have my own impressions, and dont want to spend time in twisting facts around. As long as they keep it internal to Palestine, the religious crazies can spend al day long killing each other until someone emerges as the winner. I do know that Israel will defend itself if attacked, and it does so quite effectively.

Well there you have it, folks. Desert Fox freely admits he doesn't know anything about "that part of the world," nor is he even interested in learning anything. Yet he keeps posting his inanities, because he doesn't want to "spend time in twisting facts around."

LOL.

It's hilarious that he would even mention "religious crazies".... Desert Fox obviously has nary a clue as to who's squatting on appropriated Palestinian land in the illegal settlements all over the West Bank, heavily armed and guarded by Israeli troops -- and who happen to be, by the way, one of the biggest instigators of the conflict.

"Impressions." Tee hee.

and unfortunately his viewpoint is very common here since it doesn't affect Americans that much. That is, until some planes crash into buildings and it finally gets on our soil....but then it's all because of the crazy people "over there" and let's just blow 'em all up and that'll solve the problem. No sense trying to actually take a look at cause and effect.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

and unfortunately his viewpoint is very common here since it doesn't affect Americans that much. That is, until some planes crash into buildings and it finally gets on our soil....but then it's all because of the crazy people "over there" and let's just blow 'em all up and that'll solve the problem. No sense trying to actually take a look at cause and effect.

Indeed.

That's what happens when you get your "news" from the teevee.

The "dumbing down" of the average American is a key element in what's been permitted to happen....