FDA Panel Member on COVID Vaccines: 'Heart Attacks Happen 71 Times More Often...'

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

7 hours ago, laylalex said:

He doesn't even identify himself as a panel member. He's a guy who gave testimony at a hearing.

People give testimony at hearings before Congress all the time. Does that make them members of Congress?

What is interesting about Kirsch is that he isn't known as an ideologue in the past and has been generous to a number of philanthropic efforts.  It seems like an interesting twist that he would focus on this topic.

 

[laylalex 7,282]

1 minute ago, Crtcl Rice Theory said:

What is interesting about Kirsch is that he isn't known as an ideologue in the past and has been generous to a number of philanthropic efforts.  It seems like an interesting twist that he would focus on this topic.

 

My own (limited) experience of dealing with very bright, sometimes iconoclastic people is that when no one is telling them they're as infallible as we all are, they tend to believe their brilliance is portable to any area of knowledge. That isn't to say that people can't be talented in multiple pursuits, of course. Humility and understanding the limits of one's aptitude and intelligence are really underrated virtues these days. 

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

1 minute ago, laylalex said:

My own (limited) experience of dealing with very bright, sometimes iconoclastic people is that when no one is telling them they're as infallible as we all are, they tend to believe their brilliance is portable to any area of knowledge. That isn't to say that people can't be talented in multiple pursuits, of course. Humility and understanding the limits of one's aptitude and intelligence are really underrated virtues these days. 

Humility and understanding the limits of one's aptitude really don't apply in this forum...but the thought was nice.

[laylalex 7,282]

Just now, Crtcl Rice Theory said:

Humility and understanding the limits of one's aptitude really don't apply in this forum...but the thought was nice.

 

[laylalex 7,282]

11 minutes ago, laylalex said:

when no one is telling them they're as infallible as we all are

That was meant to say FALLIBLE. 🤦‍♀️ Clearly I am an example of that!

 

I'm tired, dealing with a husband back home after a month who also has crushing jet lag so when he's up at 4am, so am I.

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

Since we are trafficking in fiction and live action roleplaying, I wanted to point out that Santa has an historic announcement coming up.

 

 

Santa Claus will be making a huge historic announcement Live on Facebook on Wednesday December 23rd at 5pm. 🎅🏻🎄
Santa will announce the most incredible news that will shock the world and change things forever.
You'll be amazed & excited when you hear the news so do not miss this event! 🎅🏻🎄
More info coming soon!
Like the page to stay updated -
https://www.facebook.com/tracksantaonline4k
Help others to watch by sharing this.

 

https://fb.me/e/1ISQ1p36i

 

 

I am fairly sure Santa has found a new therapy for Covid that involves something I can buy at Tractor Supply.   I am sure the naysayers will point out that Santa is not real, but what do they know?

[TBoneTX 44,658]

1 hour ago, Crtcl Rice Theory said:

Humility and understanding the limits of one's aptitude really don't apply in this forum

The good news is that we all hate People, Animals, and Things.  

[Dashinka 24,108]

4 hours ago, Crtcl Rice Theory said:

Since we are trafficking in fiction and live action roleplaying, I wanted to point out that Santa has an historic announcement coming up.

 

 

Santa Claus will be making a huge historic announcement Live on Facebook on Wednesday December 23rd at 5pm. 🎅🏻🎄
Santa will announce the most incredible news that will shock the world and change things forever.
You'll be amazed & excited when you hear the news so do not miss this event! 🎅🏻🎄
More info coming soon!
Like the page to stay updated -
https://www.facebook.com/tracksantaonline4k
Help others to watch by sharing this.

 

https://fb.me/e/1ISQ1p36i

 

 

I am fairly sure Santa has found a new therapy for Covid that involves something I can buy at Tractor Supply.   I am sure the naysayers will point out that Santa is not real, but what do they know?

FB is not banning Santa?

[brightfuture78 118]

I read through the presentation from Steve Kirsch and honestly, there were several things that didn't sit right with me. This is going to be lengthy, but there was a lot there to process, so it's necessary.

 

He cites 3 studies (a term he uses liberally in this presentation) : the Pfizer vaccine 6-month clinical trials, the VAERS data on reports of death prior to the Pfizer vaccination, and a story about 4 people dying in a nursing home in Ontario, Canada after getting covid booster shots. 

 

Let me point out that he marks the Pfizer clinical trials & the nursing home deaths with asterisks, deeming them "not statistically significant" even though he cites all three as evidence for his thesis.

 

He begins by pointing out an isolated statement from a report on the Pfizer clinical study where during Phase 3 (the blinded phase) 15 patients that actually received the vaccine died during the trial phase, compared to 14 patients who were given the placebo. This is where I paused and looked up the study myself to verify this. The context that Kirsch fails to provide is that both the placebo group and the vaccinated group included a number of individuals who were 75+, had pre-existing health conditions, or began the trials with symptomatic COVID-19. It's also important to note that the study only states that these individuals died during the trial period- not that they died due to complications from the vaccine. In fact, it states that none of the deaths during this phase were considered to be vaccine related by investigators. 

 

As for the nursing home report where 4 people allegedly died after receiving a covid-19 booster shot... again, I searched for an outside source for his claim. Despite my efforts, the only thing I could find was a Twitter post with no link to anything, other than the nursing home's official website (like that's supposed to add credibility). The post inferred that the news media is not reporting on it, due to some type of collective agenda.

 

When I attempted to dig deeper for an actual source, the trail led right back to Steve Kirsch's presentation, citing him as the original source. Kirsch left a comment on the post, claiming he got the information from a whistleblower that works at the nursing home who wishes to remain anonymous. That's convenient.

 

As far as the VAERS reports Kirsch cites as his one & only "statistically significant" source, I again looked outside of his presentation for verification. This was the disclaimer I found on VAERS' official website:

 

"VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind."

 

In his presentation, Kirsch first compiles all deaths reported to VAERS to have occurred some time following a Pfizer COVID-19 vaccination. He then multiplies that number by 41, due to what he refers to as the "Under Reporting Factor". His conclusion is that the Pfizer vaccine has caused 99,507 deaths. As to what reputable means he cites for achieving this URF estimate of 41X? He came up with it himself. He cites his own paper for this, which I tried to make sense of, to no avail.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but from what I can tell, the document explains that since the vaccines have been known to cause anaphylaxis reactions in some people, he's justified in taking all instances of reported anaphylaxis reactions (vaccine related or otherwise), attributing them as being caused by the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, and then counting them as deaths in order to come up with a reasonable estimate for how many cases have been under-reported.

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

"The point of this paper is not to find the exact number of deaths, but merely to find the most credible estimate for deaths. We think that anaphylaxis is an excellent proxy for a serious adverse event that, like a death, should always be reported so we think 41X is the most accurate number. Our hypothesis is that this number will be applicable to deaths as well. In order to confirm our hypothesis, we must derive the death count in different ways and see if we come up with the same answer. When used for less serious events, such as a headache, it’s likely that 41X is going to be low since such events are less likely to be reported. So our hypothesis is that 41X is a safe, conservative factor useful for all types of event."

https://www.skirsch.com/covid/Deaths.pdf

 

Yeah, I uh... don't know what he's talking about. Anyways, when I looked at the data from VAERS, it showed that amongst those reported to have died  at some point after the Pfizer vaccination (2,927 is their number), nearly 70% were age 65 and over. Another 10% were of "unknown" age, and the remaining 20% were under 65 (mainly 44-65). I'll refrain from attempting to estimate the likelihood of other potential causes of death within that higher age range, but do with that data as you will. 

 

As for the rest of Kirsch's presentation, it consisted mainly of random Twitter and Facebook comments and other anecdotal testimonials, which I don't take much stock in the veracity of, personally. As a whole, Steve Kirsch's claims lost another notch on the credibility scale every time I looked for an external source for verification.

 

I've heard nothing about him previous to this, but apparently he and his whole family are vaccinated and haven't personally experienced any negative health affects from it. However, he heard bad things about it from friends, and friends of friends, so now he's convinced it's unsafe. Interesting.

[TBoneTX 44,658]

1 hour ago, brightfuture78 said:

This is going to be lengthy

Whether we agree with your analysis or not, you put a lot of time, effort, and thinking into it, and we respect it.  You've added substantially to the thread and the discussion of the issue.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,365]

15 hours ago, brightfuture78 said:

I read through the presentation from Steve Kirsch and honestly, there were several things that didn't sit right with me. This is going to be lengthy, but there was a lot there to process, so it's necessary.

 

He cites 3 studies (a term he uses liberally in this presentation) : the Pfizer vaccine 6-month clinical trials, the VAERS data on reports of death prior to the Pfizer vaccination, and a story about 4 people dying in a nursing home in Ontario, Canada after getting covid booster shots. 

 

Let me point out that he marks the Pfizer clinical trials & the nursing home deaths with asterisks, deeming them "not statistically significant" even though he cites all three as evidence for his thesis.

 

He begins by pointing out an isolated statement from a report on the Pfizer clinical study where during Phase 3 (the blinded phase) 15 patients that actually received the vaccine died during the trial phase, compared to 14 patients who were given the placebo. This is where I paused and looked up the study myself to verify this. The context that Kirsch fails to provide is that both the placebo group and the vaccinated group included a number of individuals who were 75+, had pre-existing health conditions, or began the trials with symptomatic COVID-19. It's also important to note that the study only states that these individuals died during the trial period- not that they died due to complications from the vaccine. In fact, it states that none of the deaths during this phase were considered to be vaccine related by investigators. 

 

As for the nursing home report where 4 people allegedly died after receiving a covid-19 booster shot... again, I searched for an outside source for his claim. Despite my efforts, the only thing I could find was a Twitter post with no link to anything, other than the nursing home's official website (like that's supposed to add credibility). The post inferred that the news media is not reporting on it, due to some type of collective agenda.

 

When I attempted to dig deeper for an actual source, the trail led right back to Steve Kirsch's presentation, citing him as the original source. Kirsch left a comment on the post, claiming he got the information from a whistleblower that works at the nursing home who wishes to remain anonymous. That's convenient.

 

As far as the VAERS reports Kirsch cites as his one & only "statistically significant" source, I again looked outside of his presentation for verification. This was the disclaimer I found on VAERS' official website:

 

"VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind."

 

In his presentation, Kirsch first compiles all deaths reported to VAERS to have occurred some time following a Pfizer COVID-19 vaccination. He then multiplies that number by 41, due to what he refers to as the "Under Reporting Factor". His conclusion is that the Pfizer vaccine has caused 99,507 deaths. As to what reputable means he cites for achieving this URF estimate of 41X? He came up with it himself. He cites his own paper for this, which I tried to make sense of, to no avail.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but from what I can tell, the document explains that since the vaccines have been known to cause anaphylaxis reactions in some people, he's justified in taking all instances of reported anaphylaxis reactions (vaccine related or otherwise), attributing them as being caused by the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, and then counting them as deaths in order to come up with a reasonable estimate for how many cases have been under-reported.

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

"The point of this paper is not to find the exact number of deaths, but merely to find the most credible estimate for deaths. We think that anaphylaxis is an excellent proxy for a serious adverse event that, like a death, should always be reported so we think 41X is the most accurate number. Our hypothesis is that this number will be applicable to deaths as well. In order to confirm our hypothesis, we must derive the death count in different ways and see if we come up with the same answer. When used for less serious events, such as a headache, it’s likely that 41X is going to be low since such events are less likely to be reported. So our hypothesis is that 41X is a safe, conservative factor useful for all types of event."

https://www.skirsch.com/covid/Deaths.pdf

 

Yeah, I uh... don't know what he's talking about. Anyways, when I looked at the data from VAERS, it showed that amongst those reported to have died  at some point after the Pfizer vaccination (2,927 is their number), nearly 70% were age 65 and over. Another 10% were of "unknown" age, and the remaining 20% were under 65 (mainly 44-65). I'll refrain from attempting to estimate the likelihood of other potential causes of death within that higher age range, but do with that data as you will. 

 

As for the rest of Kirsch's presentation, it consisted mainly of random Twitter and Facebook comments and other anecdotal testimonials, which I don't take much stock in the veracity of, personally. As a whole, Steve Kirsch's claims lost another notch on the credibility scale every time I looked for an external source for verification.

 

I've heard nothing about him previous to this, but apparently he and his whole family are vaccinated and haven't personally experienced any negative health affects from it. However, he heard bad things about it from friends, and friends of friends, so now he's convinced it's unsafe. Interesting.

What a nice in depth "truthful" analysis. As Tbone said, It's nice to have someone  who posts well thought fact backed analysis (like me), instead of cut and pasting random stuff just to stir the pot.  I catch heat for refusing to embrace one ideology instead of my careful middle of the road non emotional analysis 

 

I at times feel I am the only Middle of the road poster here 

 

[TBoneTX 44,658]

3 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

someone  who posts well thought fact backed analysis (like me)

Th speling iz anuthur mater cumpleatlee

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,365]

14 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Th speling iz anuthur mater cumpleatlee

I feel rewarded that iz the uonly issues youz founded with my statement 

[jg121783 3,908]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:05 AM, Crtcl Rice Theory said:

Since we are trafficking in fiction and live action roleplaying, I wanted to point out that Santa has an historic announcement coming up.

 

 

Santa Claus will be making a huge historic announcement Live on Facebook on Wednesday December 23rd at 5pm. 🎅🏻🎄
Santa will announce the most incredible news that will shock the world and change things forever.
You'll be amazed & excited when you hear the news so do not miss this event! 🎅🏻🎄
More info coming soon!
Like the page to stay updated -
https://www.facebook.com/tracksantaonline4k
Help others to watch by sharing this.

 

https://fb.me/e/1ISQ1p36i

 

 

I am fairly sure Santa has found a new therapy for Covid that involves something I can buy at Tractor Supply.   I am sure the naysayers will point out that Santa is not real, but what do they know?

That therapy you are referring to that can be purchased at Tractor Supply (by the way in case you didn't know a version made for humans can also be obtained from a pharmacist) has been around and has been FDA approved for years. It has caused less deaths during the entire period it has been on the market than over the counter Tylenol causes in a year. The vaccine on the other hand is experimental and the public doesn't even have access to the version that was pseudo FDA approved. Think I'll stick with the safe, proven FDA approved medicine that has been in use for years over lining the pockets of big pharma by being forced to take an experimental treatment. 

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

5 hours ago, jg121783 said:

That therapy you are referring to that can be purchased at Tractor Supply (by the way in case you didn't know a version made for humans can also be obtained from a pharmacist) has been around and has been FDA approved for years. It has caused less deaths during the entire period it has been on the market than over the counter Tylenol causes in a year. The vaccine on the other hand is experimental and the public doesn't even have access to the version that was pseudo FDA approved. Think I'll stick with the safe, proven FDA approved medicine that has been in use for years over lining the pockets of big pharma by being forced to take an experimental treatment. 

So you don't trust the FDA approval,  in favor of the FDA approved medicine (for something else totally unrelated to covid infection). 

 

So when are we supposed to trust drug makers and the FDA?