Ukraine divorce decree prior to final date valid?

[Keithn85 400]

Good morning from Central time,

 

I accidentally posted a crazy post yesterday about USCIS RFE for my fiancee's divorce decree she received.  She went to the court in January 2019 and picked up the paper and the document date is 22 January.  The thing that I think confused USCIS was it gives the 1 month notice of if either spouse changes their mind.  It has the Decided portion but according to USCIS, it does not say the divorce is final as of now.  Since a child was involved, it had to go through courts.  Therefore, a certificate is not available, only the decree.  My questions about this are:
-Is there a law that says the decree that USCIS says is nisi (or at least it says in my RFE a nisi is not valid for a decree/certificate) is actually valid after the date passes for the stamped date?  The stamped/signed date was February 2019.  The way she explained it, the database shows the case # for the divorce and you can see very little information, whether it is final or not, but paperwork is not available for it.

-What would be good next steps to combat the RFE?  She is talking to her lawyer that she hired for her child's rights to move and she said he is going to pull information from Ukrainian law and put his signature on it.  Then She is going to get it translated for me.
I know here in the US, it is easier.  The forms are local and the office copies them for you and then stamps, like a birth certificate.  (speaking of which, i need to order another copy of mine).  It is not this way in Ukraine?  
I have the copy of her divorce decree as a PDF if someone wants to look at it and let me know what they think.  The copy I have is both original language and translated to english.  

I appreciate any help or guidance as maybe I am searching incorrectly but googling and searching keywords on here is not working for me to find a good solid answer.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Keithn85
corrected spelling of isp to is

[jan22 3,053]

Does the document she has match with the requirements posted by the State Department: 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Ukraine.html ?

 

This link contains the name of the document they are looking for and who issues it.

 

 

[JeanneAdil 6,498]

you need the final degree 

that will satisify immigrationand a court order that the
father allows the child to travel

 

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/5-564-3065?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

 

There are no separate family courts in Ukraine, family disputes are handled by the local courts of general jurisdiction. The cases are usually considered in the relevant courts at the place of defendant's residence. The alimony cases, paternity recognition claims, and divorce claims can also be adjudicated by the courts at the place of the claimant's residence, as per his choice (Article 110, Civil Procedural Code of Ukraine 2004 (Civil Procedural Code)). Custody cases might be first considered by custodial and caring authorities (children welfare offices). However, application to custodial authorities does not undermine the right of the parents to apply to the court for dispute resolution.

child support

Residence of children

The place of residence of a child under the age of ten is determined by the parents' mutual consent. The place of residence of a child who has reached ten years of age is agreed by the mutual parents' consent and the child's will. If the parents live separately, the place of residence of a child who has reached 14 years of age is determined by the child's will exclusively.

 

The general rules for removing a child outside the border of Ukraine are provided in the Law of Ukraine on the Procedure for Leaving and Entering Ukraine by Ukrainian citizens, adopted on 21 January 1994 and the Regulations of border-crossing by Ukraine's citizens approved by the Resolution of Ukraine's Cabinet of Ministers No 57, adopted on 27 January 1995. Under Ukrainian law, citizens who have not reached the age of 16 can only travel outside of Ukraine with the consent of both parents (adoptive parents) or guardians and accompanied by them, or by persons authorised by them.

Otherwise, travelling outside of Ukraine where a Ukrainian citizen has not attained the age of 16, is not accompanied by one parent or is not accompanied by persons who are authorised by a parent is only possible with the notarised consent of the other parent or both parents, indicating the state of destination and the corresponding length of stay abroad. A departure from Ukraine without notarised consent from the other parent is possible when:

• The other parent is a foreign national or a stateless person, and this is confirmed by the relevant record in the child's birth certificate.
• The passport for travelling abroad or the child's travel document shows evidence of permanent residence outside Ukraine or evidence of consular registration in Ukrainian embassies abroad. (Ukrainian nationals who live abroad can rely on consular registration and the registration mark of the Ukrainian embassy of "permanent residence abroad" or "consular registration" in the child's passport or travel document.)

The child may travel abroad without the notarised consent of the other parent in the case where they are able to show, at the points of crossing of state borders, an original document or notarised copy of one of the following:

• The death certificate of the other parent.
• A court order demonstrating the termination of the parental rights of the other parent.
• A court order recognising that the other parent has "disappeared".
• A court order recognising the other parent as incapable.
• A court order granting permission to travel outside Ukraine for a citizen who has not reached the age of 16 and is without the consent and support of the other parent.
• A certificate of birth issued by the civil registration office, specifying that the record about the father was made on the basis of first paragraph of Article 135 of the Family Code of Ukraine 2002.
• A court order or report of custody and care authorities establishing and/or confirming place of residence of a child with the parent, who wishes to travel abroad with the child.

 

 

[Keithn85 400]

14 minutes ago, jan22 said:

Does the document she has match with the requirements posted by the State Department: 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Ukraine.html ?

 

This link contains the name of the document they are looking for and who issues it.

 

I appreciate you replying!  The RFE had a copy/paste from this site but only a few of the lines.  They put a link to it at the bottom.  The highlighted below is what I consider what she has:

The only thing I am concerned about is even though it does have a seal.  Below is a screenshot of the seals.  VJ mods I hope this isnt breaching ToS posting this because as far as I know it doesnt mention anything but let me know:
This is direct from the pdf she scanned.  Again, the document she has in had that this was scanned from is dated with the case # in the lower right as 22 January instead of February.

[Keithn85 400]

3 minutes ago, JeanneAdil said:

you need the final degree 

that will satisify immigrationand a court order that the
father allows the child to travel

 

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/5-564-3065?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

 

There are no separate family courts in Ukraine, family disputes are handled by the local courts of general jurisdiction. The cases are usually considered in the relevant courts at the place of defendant's residence. The alimony cases, paternity recognition claims, and divorce claims can also be adjudicated by the courts at the place of the claimant's residence, as per his choice (Article 110, Civil Procedural Code of Ukraine 2004 (Civil Procedural Code)). Custody cases might be first considered by custodial and caring authorities (children welfare offices). However, application to custodial authorities does not undermine the right of the parents to apply to the court for dispute resolution.

child support

Residence of children

The place of residence of a child under the age of ten is determined by the parents' mutual consent. The place of residence of a child who has reached ten years of age is agreed by the mutual parents' consent and the child's will. If the parents live separately, the place of residence of a child who has reached 14 years of age is determined by the child's will exclusively.

 

The general rules for removing a child outside the border of Ukraine are provided in the Law of Ukraine on the Procedure for Leaving and Entering Ukraine by Ukrainian citizens, adopted on 21 January 1994 and the Regulations of border-crossing by Ukraine's citizens approved by the Resolution of Ukraine's Cabinet of Ministers No 57, adopted on 27 January 1995. Under Ukrainian law, citizens who have not reached the age of 16 can only travel outside of Ukraine with the consent of both parents (adoptive parents) or guardians and accompanied by them, or by persons authorised by them.

Otherwise, travelling outside of Ukraine where a Ukrainian citizen has not attained the age of 16, is not accompanied by one parent or is not accompanied by persons who are authorised by a parent is only possible with the notarised consent of the other parent or both parents, indicating the state of destination and the corresponding length of stay abroad. A departure from Ukraine without notarised consent from the other parent is possible when:

• The other parent is a foreign national or a stateless person, and this is confirmed by the relevant record in the child's birth certificate.
• The passport for travelling abroad or the child's travel document shows evidence of permanent residence outside Ukraine or evidence of consular registration in Ukrainian embassies abroad. (Ukrainian nationals who live abroad can rely on consular registration and the registration mark of the Ukrainian embassy of "permanent residence abroad" or "consular registration" in the child's passport or travel document.)

The child may travel abroad without the notarised consent of the other parent in the case where they are able to show, at the points of crossing of state borders, an original document or notarised copy of one of the following:

• The death certificate of the other parent.
• A court order demonstrating the termination of the parental rights of the other parent.
• A court order recognising that the other parent has "disappeared".
• A court order recognising the other parent as incapable.
• A court order granting permission to travel outside Ukraine for a citizen who has not reached the age of 16 and is without the consent and support of the other parent.
• A certificate of birth issued by the civil registration office, specifying that the record about the father was made on the basis of first paragraph of Article 135 of the Family Code of Ukraine 2002.
• A court order or report of custody and care authorities establishing and/or confirming place of residence of a child with the parent, who wishes to travel abroad with the child.

 

 

I appreciate all of your information for this!  Yes, she is currently in process of getting the permission from the father.  The RFE for my petition is only about the decree.  She just texted me and said the government refused to provide a final certificate.  It makes sense that final certificate is not allowed for any divorce post 2010.  If it was without children, it would be easier, but I can see now this is way more difficult to navigate.  I saw plenty of posts without children on VJ that I was able to make sense of.  Maybe I should just send the laws?  She said when she called the government body, they loudly yelled at her "check the laws!  we cannot provide this to you" but of course in ukrainian or russian or whatever, not english. 

[Keithn85 400]

Argh!  We figured it out!  There was a misunderstanding and she picked up this decree in March/april (basically after 30 days of February).  Sorry y'all.  We are all set though.  USCIS just did not understand that the original document typed in January was stamped in February and she picked it up in March.  Easy peasy.  

I was thoroughly confused when she mentioned yesterday "I think sometime in January is when I picked it up" because it had the stamp for February and the signatures.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Keithn85