Saint Luke's announces mandatory COVID vaccine and RT-PCR testing

[AKteacher 104]

2 hours ago, jg121783 said:

A few things here. The "vaccine" has not been proven safe and effective. Secondly just because someone wont take the covid shot doesn't necessarily make them anti vaccine. Third there is no evidence that people who choose not to take the shot are "spreading disease" to anyone at a higher rate than those who took the shot. Fourth if you actually look at the numbers versus believing every word that comes out of Faucci's mouth you would see that not only in the US but worldwide vaccinated people are actually being hospitalized at a higher rate than unvaccinated people. Finally if you are "vaccinated" and you believe it is effective why do you think you have the right to get in other people's business and force an experimental medical treatment on them? It's hard for me to comprehend how some people try to force their paranoia on others. 

You seem to be misinformed about a number of things. I hope that some of the sources below will give you more information about vaccines. Hopefully, if enough people stop believing misinformation and get vaccinated, then we can end this pandemic which is something I think we all want.

 

"The "vaccine" has not been proven safe and effective."

Incorrect. The US ones have. Can't speak for the Chinese or Russian ones.

 

"just because someone wont take the covid shot doesn't necessarily make them anti vaccine"

Unless you fall into one of the groups I previously mentioned (organ transplant, cancer, etc.), then yes it does. Or perhaps just a conspiracy theorist.

 

"there is no evidence that people who choose not to take the shot are "spreading disease" to anyone at a higher rate than those who took the shot"

Apparently the Delta variant can also be spread by the vaccinated, although for a shorter time https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

There is, however, ample evidence that the unvaccinated are swamping hospitals and thus preventing others from receiving medical care.

 

" not only in the US but worldwide vaccinated people are actually being hospitalized at a higher rate than unvaccinated people"

Incorrect. Yes, some vaccinated people have been hospitalized. But if what you said is true, then why aren't hospitals being  inundated by the vaccinated? Because they're not - they're being inundated by the unvaccinated.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-coronavirus-vaccines-hospital-cases-rates-unvaccinated

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

 

"why do you think you have the right to get in other people's business and force an experimental medical treatment on them"

Wrong. This is a public health problem and so it is "my business." It is NOT your right to help spread disease, lengthen the pandemic, and cause others to die because the hospitals are clogged with unvaccinated people. Also, the US-made vaccines are not what most people would think of as "experimental." They have been given to literally hundreds of millions of people with excellent results overall.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[Puppythecat 89]

Regardless of what you think about the safety or effectiveness of the vaccines, which is really more terrifying:

1) a novel flu virus with a 99.6+% survival rate

or

2) a government whose executive branch thinks he can force everyone to put whatever he wants into their body for the greater good

 

Having already had covid I know which one I'm more concerned about.  The vaccines may be as safe and effective as the flu vaccines that have been given out for the last 80 years but it's the mandates that can lead to some pretty dark outcomes.

[AKteacher 104]

2 minutes ago, Puppythecat said:

Regardless of what you think about the safety or effectiveness of the vaccines, which is really more terrifying:

1) a novel flu virus with a 99.6+% survival rate

or

2) a government whose executive branch thinks he can force everyone to put whatever he wants into their body for the greater good

 

Having already had covid I know which one I'm more concerned about.  The vaccines may be as safe and effective as the flu vaccines that have been given out for the last 80 years but it's the mandates that can lead to some pretty dark outcomes.

I would agree that governmental overreach can be a slippery slope and we need to be careful about giving the government too much power. However, the survival rate you mentioned may sound high, but there are many people (the elderly, people with medical conditions) who are at significant risk of death. Also, just because somebody doesn't die, does not mean that they do not get seriously ill with lasting effects. Also, consider the effect on the rest of us of a lengthy pandemic - hospitals overrun with unvaccinated sick people, travel bans, economic hardship, etc. The longer the pandemic goes on, the greater these effects.  Many vaccines are already mandated, so why should the covid vaccine be any different? Perhaps if more people were willing to contribute to the greater good, the pandemic would be shorter and we can get on with our lives. I worry more about misinformation being widely circulated and believed, and by politicians that sow mistrust in our institutions for political gain, and the effect of that on our society. I for one am much more willing to believe scientists and doctors (mainstream ones, not fringe)  than any politician...

[Joe Kano 327]

16 minutes ago, Puppythecat said:

Having already had covid I know which one I'm more concerned about.  The vaccines may be as safe and effective as the flu vaccines that have been given out for the last 80 years but it's the mandates that can lead to some pretty dark outcomes.

 

[Puppythecat 89]

5 minutes ago, AKteacher said:

I would agree that governmental overreach can be a slippery slope and we need to be careful about giving the government too much power. However, the survival rate you mentioned may sound high, but there are many people (the elderly, people with medical conditions) who are at significant risk of death. Also, just because somebody doesn't die, does not mean that they do not get seriously ill with lasting effects. Also, consider the effect on the rest of us of a lengthy pandemic - hospitals overrun with unvaccinated sick people, travel bans, economic hardship, etc. The longer the pandemic goes on, the greater these effects.  Many vaccines are already mandated, so why should the covid vaccine be any different? Perhaps if more people were willing to contribute to the greater good, the pandemic would be shorter and we can get on with our lives. I worry more about misinformation being widely circulated and believed, and by politicians that sow mistrust in our institutions for political gain, and the effect of that on our society. I for one am much more willing to believe scientists and doctors (mainstream ones, not fringe)  than any politician...

Hospitals should tell people exactly what I was told at the clinic: "It's a virus, there's not really anything we can do about it.  Go home and get some rest for a few days."  I'm not sure how sleeping in an uncomfortable hospital bed and eating bad hospital food is supposed to improve outcomes, other than to drive up medical bills.

 

There are not mandates for other vaccines in order to work at any employer with over 100 staff members, that's overreach so far beyond the reasonable it's absurd.  It's no longer a pandemic, it's endemic.  First it was 2 weeks to slow the spread, then 2 years to slow the spread, next you will want 20 years to slow the spread.  If you want to get on with your life just do it and accept that life isn't without risk.

[Joe Kano 327]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:02 PM, jg121783 said:

Even US citizens are having it forced on them. But not the illegals.

Texas Governor just closed 6 Port of Entries along the Texas Mexico Border:

 

Texas governor orders six points of entry along the southern border to be shut down - CNNPolitics

 

[RUJEN 140]

10 hours ago, Joe Kano said:

As usual for the Philippines doesn't really make sense

and the American Govt, CDC and Fauci is making sense????

Every week we are flip flopping around on what is right and wrong..... just saying

[RO_AH 1,659]

2 hours ago, AKteacher said:

there are many people (the elderly, people with medical conditions) who are at significant risk of death.

And THEY should self quarantine, get the vaccine, wear masks, and social distance.

2 hours ago, AKteacher said:

Also, consider the effect on the rest of us of a lengthy pandemic - hospitals overrun with unvaccinated sick people

And vaccinated sick people.

2 hours ago, AKteacher said:

travel bans, economic hardship, etc. The longer the pandemic goes on, the greater these effects.

These are hardships imposed by the government not un-vaccinated people...Don't get it twisted

2 hours ago, AKteacher said:

Many vaccines are already mandated, so why should the covid vaccine be any different?

There are many FDA approved vaccines that are required for certain things however there are no mandates for those vaccines. That is why it is different.

2 hours ago, AKteacher said:

Perhaps if more people were willing to contribute to the greater good, the pandemic would be shorter and we can get on with our lives.

Hmmmm where have I heard that greater good line before??? Was it Chavez, Castro, Marx, Hitler?

2 hours ago, AKteacher said:

I worry more about misinformation being widely circulated and believed

Me too after reading your posts...

2 hours ago, AKteacher said:

I for one am much more willing to believe scientists and doctors (mainstream ones, not fringe)  than any politician...

I can agree with part of this. I have not nor will I take medical advice from a politician. But we used to advance medicine trough open dialog. Maybe it doesn't bother you that any doctor going against group think regarding covid risks losing everything including their career, and are actively censored or silenced by social and main stream media, but it does bother me and I am guessing it makes it easier for you to label them as fringe.

[Puppythecat 89]

1 hour ago, RUJEN said:

and the American Govt, CDC and Fauci is making sense????

Every week we are flip flopping around on what is right and wrong..... just saying

If they really wanted to restore some little crumb of trust in the government they would take the people who funded the irresponsible bat virus modification research in Wuhan and hold them responsible instead of make one their own spokesman for how to handle the outbreak.

[top_secret 2,417]

1 minute ago, Puppythecat said:

If they really wanted to restore some little crumb of trust in the government they would take the people who funded the irresponsible bat virus modification research in Wuhan and hold them responsible instead of make one their own spokesman for how to handle the outbreak.

That's why we need an experimental vaccine.  Because it is an experimental virus. 😁

 

Wuhan is cold in the winter time.   Bats can't handle freezing temperatures.  There were no bats in Wuhan in December 2019.    Only a bat virus lab was there.  

[brightfuture78 118]

6 hours ago, jg121783 said:

A few things here. The "vaccine" has not been proven safe and effective.

Can you be more specific? You're making it seem like you think there's just one vaccine.

6 hours ago, jg121783 said:

Fourth if you actually look at the numbers versus believing every word that comes out of Faucci's mouth you would see that not only in the US but worldwide vaccinated people are actually being hospitalized at a higher rate than unvaccinated people.

Please do link me to these "numbers" you speak of. I'm genuinely having a hard time finding them. Thanks in advance! 

[Puppythecat 89]

13 minutes ago, top_secret said:

That's why we need an experimental vaccine.  Because it is an experimental virus. 😁

 

Wuhan is cold in the winter time.   Bats can't handle freezing temperatures.  There were no bats in Wuhan in December 2019.    Only a bat virus lab was there.  

Given the experiment was to see if they could get bat viruses to infect human cells I would call the outcome a roaring success.  Totally different from "gain of function research" though.

[AKteacher 104]

1 hour ago, RO_AH said:

3 hours ago, AKteacher said:

there are many people (the elderly, people with medical conditions) who are at significant risk of death.

And THEY should self quarantine, get the vaccine, wear masks, and social distance.

Agreed. But what we do also affects them.

1 hour ago, RO_AH said:

3 hours ago, AKteacher said:

Also, consider the effect on the rest of us of a lengthy pandemic - hospitals overrun with unvaccinated sick people

And vaccinated sick people.

Most of the people being hospitalized are unvaccinated, not vaccinated.

1 hour ago, RO_AH said:

3 hours ago, AKteacher said:

travel bans, economic hardship, etc. The longer the pandemic goes on, the greater these effects.

These are hardships imposed by the government not un-vaccinated people...Don't get it twisted

I have to agree here, at least to the extent that, yes, the response is imperfect. The idea was to delay the spread of the virus so hospitals (and cemeteries) are not overwhelmed. There is probably nothing (even vaccines) that can completely stop the spread of the virus.

1 hour ago, RO_AH said:

3 hours ago, AKteacher said:

Many vaccines are already mandated, so why should the covid vaccine be any different?

There are many FDA approved vaccines that are required for certain things however there are no mandates for those vaccines. That is why it is different.

I would have to agree. Nevertheless, more people need to be vaccinated in order to stop the pandemic. If people refuse the vaccine based on misinformation, then maybe mandates are necessary. That would be debatable.  I would also be concerned about governmental overreach.

1 hour ago, RO_AH said:

3 hours ago, AKteacher said:

Perhaps if more people were willing to contribute to the greater good, the pandemic would be shorter and we can get on with our lives.

Hmmmm where have I heard that greater good line before??? Was it Chavez, Castro, Marx, Hitler?

Vaccines are akin to what those dictators did? Give me a break...

1 hour ago, RO_AH said:

3 hours ago, AKteacher said:

I worry more about misinformation being widely circulated and believed

Me too after reading your posts...

Well, at least I supplied backup info from reputable sources. The current scientific consensus is, overwhelmingly, that the approved US vaccines are safe and effective.

1 hour ago, RO_AH said:

3 hours ago, AKteacher said:

I for one am much more willing to believe scientists and doctors (mainstream ones, not fringe)  than any politician...

I can agree with part of this. I have not nor will I take medical advice from a politician. But we used to advance medicine trough open dialog. Maybe it doesn't bother you that any doctor going against group think regarding covid risks losing everything including their career, and are actively censored or silenced by social and main stream media, but it does bother me and I am guessing it makes it easier for you to label them as fringe.

The ones I would label as fringe are the ones who circulate misinformation for personal profit, such as this guy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html

and this:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/12/993615185/for-some-anti-vaccine-advocates-misinformation-is-part-of-a-business

[RO_AH 1,659]

@AKteacher would you be surprised to know that Dr. Robert Malone the inventor of the mRNA vaccine does not recommend that everyone get vaccinated? In fact he said that it could be quite dangerous? If you do some searching you could probably find his recent 2 part interview online. Would he be a reputable source according to you?

Can you tell me how people are tested for the Delta variant? Would you be surprised that they can't test for it and that the Delta variant is based on estimates?

Who's to say your sources are reputable and anyone that disagrees with you does not use reputable sources? That's putting everyone in a box again to make them easy to dismiss.

[Puppythecat 89]

23 minutes ago, AKteacher said:

I would have to agree. Nevertheless, more people need to be vaccinated in order to stop the pandemic. If people refuse the vaccine based on misinformation, then maybe mandates are necessary. That would be debatable.  I would also be concerned about governmental overreach.

Moderna COVID vaccine: Does COVID-19 immunity last? - Deseret News

 

Moderna's president is already pushing periodic booster shots.  And they've developed a combination covid and flu shot so if you're like me you can enjoy all the sinus clogging side effects of the flu shot to go along with your covid booster shot.  I can see it now, "I'm sorry sir your 8-month booster expired yesterday so your Covid QR code privileges have been disabled."  "That's strange there's suddenly an epidemic of suicidal depression maybe we should add some lithium salts into this year's manditory combi-shot.  For the public's health."

 

No mandates, I'd rather just live with the covid.