Fauci Struggles to Explain Why People With Natural Immunity Should Take Vax: 'I Don't Have A Really Firm Answer For You On That'

[Dashinka 24,731]

15 minutes ago, SLV123 said:

1. My father died of Covid, it hit him early and within 4 days he was gone.

2. I am a proponent of staying informed as science gathers more data on how we can best live with this disease. Today’s headline:

For those who have put off getting vaccinated because they’ve already been infected with the coronavirus, a growing body of evidence suggests vaccination plus natural immunity leads to particularly robust protection, including against variants of the virus.

3. Remember the math teacher said, please show your work? Please share your extrapolation equation that somehow the entire population (of American male teenagers?) resulted in 350,000 impacted by myocarditis, to support your ‘statement’. (Full disclosure: I am a seeker of substantiated data. I am a data analyst by trade.)

OK, the math is a little off.  So if the VAERS gets between 1-5% actual reporting (let's say 5%), that means the actual number of adverse reactions would be closer to 180,000 with 16,200 adverse and about 7,000 serious reactions in the 12-17 age group.  Compare that to 412 deaths from or with Covid in the age range from 0-17, which one would you prefer?  The data does not split out deaths below 17 in smaller groups, so that is the best we can do.  To top it off, the current nationwide surge peaked out two weeks ago (if you believe case numbers mean anything).

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

[SLV123 40]

17 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Compare that to 412 deaths from or with Covid in the age range from 0-17, which one would you prefer?

Hi Dashinka

Thanks for sharing that link.

 

I am not in the position to offer opinions to the public - The only person considering my opinion about the vaccine was when my stepdaughter asked me whether her 14 year old daughter should get her second vaccine, in August. I researched what I could find, and shared what I consider reliable information: that Israel still recommended it for their youth, even knowing that there were potential cases of treatable ‘benign’ myocarditis. She received the second  vaccine and suffered no side effects.
 

Interestingly to me is that the UK’S National Health Service has taken a different path:

 

”The UK's vaccine advisory body has refused to give the green light to vaccinating healthy children aged 12-15 years on health grounds alone.”

 

We are still learning how to ‘live’ with this deadly virus (man made or not). But the science/data shows that masks and vaccines work and that’s about the last response I have to contribute on this topic. 

[Dashinka 24,731]

5 minutes ago, SLV123 said:

Hi Dashinka

Thanks for sharing that link.

 

I am not in the position to offer opinions to the public - The only person considering my opinion about the vaccine was when my stepdaughter asked me whether her 14 year old daughter should get her second vaccine, in August. I researched what I could find, and shared what I consider reliable information: that Israel still recommended it for their youth, even knowing that there were potential cases of treatable ‘benign’ myocarditis. She received the second  vaccine and suffered no side effects.
 

Interestingly to me is that the UK’S National Health Service has taken a different path:

 

”The UK's vaccine advisory body has refused to give the green light to vaccinating healthy children aged 12-15 years on health grounds alone.”

 

We are still learning how to ‘live’ with this deadly virus (man made or not). But the science/data shows that masks and vaccines work and that’s about the last response I have to contribute on this topic. 

Everyone should think about it individually, it should not be a top down stick only mandate from some political elite leader.  There is a lot of learning, and much more information will come out over the next 20-30 years.  It is a deadly virus, and it affects people differently.  I don't have an issue with the UK strategy, since we are learning that those vaccinated can still be spreaders, and the mortality of those under 17 is exceedingly rare.  Would we really subject young people to the potential of an extreme impact given the Covid impact that group has.  I really would not consider myocarditis as benign being that it is the third leading cause of death among young adults (see Wikipedia) with 1.5 per 100,000.

[TBoneTX 45,910]

1 hour ago, SLV123 said:

My father died of Covid, it hit him early and within 4 days he was gone

Deepest sympathy.  May you be comforted among all who mourn.

[SLV123 40]

19 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I really would not consider myocarditis as benign

Once again, the use of ‘benign’ in this instance is taken from medical experts. In these cases it is BECAUSE  the myocarditis resolves within a week of treatment (mainly medication and rest).

 

Here’s the medical language PERTAINING to the vaccine:

Patients have typically had symptoms of chest pain, and were subsequently found to have elevated levels of troponin, abnormal electrocardiograms, and cardiac MRI patterns consistent with myocarditis. Thankfully, feared serious complications of myocarditis such as circulatory failure or dangerous arrhythmias appear to be exceptionally uncommon.
 

Sharing MORE FACTS from your Wikipedia reference:

Note: All this preceded COVID/vaccines:

Myocarditis is most often due to a viral infection.

In 2013, about 1.5 million cases of acute myocarditis occurred.[6] While people of all ages are affected, the young are most often affected.[7] It is slightly more common in males than females.[1] Most cases are mild.[2] In 2015 cardiomyopathy, including myocarditis, resulted in 354,000 deaths up from 294,000 in 1990.[8][5] The initial descriptions of the condition are from the mid-1800s.

 

[Dashinka 24,731]

13 minutes ago, SLV123 said:

Once again, the use of ‘benign’ in this instance is taken from medical experts. In these cases it is BECAUSE  the myocarditis resolves within a week of treatment (mainly medication and rest).

 

Here’s the medical language PERTAINING to the vaccine:

Patients have typically had symptoms of chest pain, and were subsequently found to have elevated levels of troponin, abnormal electrocardiograms, and cardiac MRI patterns consistent with myocarditis. Thankfully, feared serious complications of myocarditis such as circulatory failure or dangerous arrhythmias appear to be exceptionally uncommon.
 

Sharing MORE FACTS from your Wikipedia reference:

Note: All this preceded COVID/vaccines:

Myocarditis is most often due to a viral infection.

In 2013, about 1.5 million cases of acute myocarditis occurred.[6] While people of all ages are affected, the young are most often affected.[7] It is slightly more common in males than females.[1] Most cases are mild.[2] In 2015 cardiomyopathy, including myocarditis, resulted in 354,000 deaths up from 294,000 in 1990.[8][5] The initial descriptions of the condition are from the mid-1800s.

 

If a medical expert is terming myocarditis as benign, I would be questioning their thoughts on other things.  Yes, it is treatable, but of course it has to be identified first, and does every kid tell their parents/guardians they are hurting?

[SLV123 40]

36 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

If a medical expert is terming myocarditis as benign, I would be questioning their thoughts on other things.  Yes, it is treatable, but of course it has to be identified first, and does every kid tell their parents/guardians they are hurting?

This is like whack-a-mole but I appreciate the discourse and the opportunity to share facts and not opinions. Many others can become informed and that is truly delightful. 
 

When you question someone’s competency with your opinion and no medical expertise, it’s your opinion (but not useful for public health decisions) .

 

A few replies ago, you stated (with flawed equations) there were 350,000 cases of teenage myocarditis, but now you’re saying they didn’t inform their parents????? Somehow that logic defies my comprehension.

But thank you again for stimulating me to gather more facts to counter your medical opinions.

 

However, based on data available to date, we can say that myocarditis occurring after COVID-19 immunization is rare. Kim et al1 estimated that more than 560 000 persons in the 6 counties surrounding their tertiary care institution had received 2 doses of an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine by April 30, 2021; they detected 4 myocarditis cases by that date.1 The Military Health System administered more than 2.8 million doses of mRNA-based vaccines through April 30, 2021, and detected 23 myocarditis cases.2 Based on the military’s extensive experience with vaccinia-associated myocarditis,9 it is possible that the military system may be more likely to detect mild myocarditis cases than most civilian medical centers. 

and I’ve included a reputable link for your further reading (Please pay special attention to the section where they said all teenagers were recovering)

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2781600

[Dashinka 24,731]

1 minute ago, SLV123 said:

This is like whack-a-mole but I appreciate the discourse and the opportunity to share facts and not opinions. Many others can become informed and that is truly delightful. 
 

When you question someone’s competency with your opinion and no medical expertise, it’s your opinion (but not useful for public health decisions) .

 

A few replies ago, you stated (with flawed equations) there were 350,000 cases of teenage myocarditis, but now you’re saying they didn’t inform their parents????? Somehow that logic defies my comprehension.

But thank you again for stimulating me to gather more facts to counter your medical opinions.

 

However, based on data available to date, we can say that myocarditis occurring after COVID-19 immunization is rare. Kim et al1 estimated that more than 560 000 persons in the 6 counties surrounding their tertiary care institution had received 2 doses of an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine by April 30, 2021; they detected 4 myocarditis cases by that date.1 The Military Health System administered more than 2.8 million doses of mRNA-based vaccines through April 30, 2021, and detected 23 myocarditis cases.2 Based on the military’s extensive experience with vaccinia-associated myocarditis,9 it is possible that the military system may be more likely to detect mild myocarditis cases than most civilian medical centers. 

and I’ve included a reputable link for your further reading (Please pay special attention to the section where they said all teenagers were recovering)

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2781600

I was showing the severe limitations of the VAERS system.  Even from the VAERS data if we believe there were only a little more than 9,000 reports of adverse effects in children between 12 and 17 with 91% minor, 9% adverse and 4% resulting in myocarditis, that is 360 cases of the effect which leads to the other thread that I also linked.   As to your data posted, what age range of those jabbed?  It appears you pivoted from discussing the effects of the vaccine on children to adults.

[SLV123 40]

7 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

It appears you pivoted from discussing the effects of the vaccine on children to adults.

We have been discussing public health and let’s be honest, how some facts get politicized by people with an agenda. I’ve been very clear about my agenda -  I am a supporter of public health backed by science and data, and for my personal consumption, the facts support masks properly worn and for the majority of people to get vaccinated. 
 

In regards to myocarditis, the potential that a child could unfortunately encounter that adverse reaction is definitely a topic a parent should be aware of and discuss with a pediatrician, as they make a decision, rather than 2 people sharing partial information on a social media site. 

 

We will all wait for the FDA/CDC to gather the facts/testing before authorizing the vaccine for younger than 12. 
 

On a totally different topic, let me share with you that I have an entry on the VAERS database. My mother was administered the Tdap vaccine in 2014, as a frail 86-year-old woman, by a gerontologist meeting her for the first time.  That vaccine had not been tested in the senior population (tho with the Covid vaccine trials some elderly were included). My mother experienced a great deal of nausea and stomach pain so she didn’t take her blood pressure medication (which shot up to an unsafe level), then she was aggressively treated in the emergency room of our local hospital, fell  into a coma, intubated and subsequently died. The CDC still recommends that vaccine for the elderly population. The vaccine did not ‘cause’ my mother’s death - I blame the physician for not knowing his patient and not being aware of potential adverse reactions and not informing my very bright mother so she could participate in the decision.
 

So that’s my story. I’m still a proponent of vaccination with reliable information. 

[Dashinka 24,731]

23 minutes ago, SLV123 said:

We have been discussing public health and let’s be honest, how some facts get politicized by people with an agenda. I’ve been very clear about my agenda -  I am a supporter of public health backed by science and data, and for my personal consumption, the facts support masks properly worn and for the majority of people to get vaccinated. 
 

In regards to myocarditis, the potential that a child could unfortunately encounter that adverse reaction is definitely a topic a parent should be aware of and discuss with a pediatrician, as they make a decision, rather than 2 people sharing partial information on a social media site. 

 

We will all wait for the FDA/CDC to gather the facts/testing before authorizing the vaccine for younger than 12. 
 

On a totally different topic, let me share with you that I have an entry on the VAERS database. My mother was administered the Tdap vaccine in 2014, as a frail 86-year-old woman, by a gerontologist meeting her for the first time.  That vaccine had not been tested in the senior population (tho with the Covid vaccine trials some elderly were included). My mother experienced a great deal of nausea and stomach pain so she didn’t take her blood pressure medication (which shot up to an unsafe level), then she was aggressively treated in the emergency room of our local hospital, fell  into a coma, intubated and subsequently died. The CDC still recommends that vaccine for the elderly population. The vaccine did not ‘cause’ my mother’s death - I blame the physician for not knowing his patient and not being aware of potential adverse reactions and not informing my very bright mother so she could participate in the decision.
 

So that’s my story. I’m still a proponent of vaccination with reliable information. 

I am all for vaccination with reliable information, I just don't know that the information on the Covid19 vaccine is all in yet especially for children,.  Heck, the Pfizer vaccine doesn't even have an efficacy number for ages 12-17 since no one in the test group (test or control) got Covid19, and yet, it was approved for that age group.  Public health is what it is, and life itself is risky.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Dashinka

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

22 hours ago, SLV123 said:

I recommend that you inform yourself before making an assumption of what i shared so I will take the time that you didn’t take by sharing facts:

 

In academic publishing, a preprint is a version of a scholarly or scientific paper that precedes formal peer review and publication in a peer-reviewed scholarly or scientific journal. The preprint may be available, often as a non-typeset version available free, before or after a paper is published in a journal.

 

When you question the science of vaccines you are asking to go back in time. Is that what you’re proposing?

I am very informed.  I have read many, many articles from various sources on the subject.

 

What you shared above (the part about:  individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

 

is purely supposition.  If you cannot understand that, then there is nothing I can do to change your mind.  Meanwhile, the 98% of the population who have survived covid, the majority of which did so WITHOUT any vaccine, are still here to tell the story.

There is a small minority of the population who need the added boost of the vaccine.  But for most, it is simply not a good choice.  And that is why otherwise healthy people who get the jab are dying.

 

[TBoneTX 45,910]

9 hours ago, SLV123 said:

the facts support masks properly worn

For consideration:

https://escipub.com/Articles/IRJPH/IRJPH-2021-08-1005.pdf

[SLV123 40]

1 hour ago, LIBrty4all said:

is purely supposition. 

Not sure what bonafides you have to label Israel’s studies ’supposition’. I’m genuinely interested in hearing the research you’ve done that refutes their methodology, but until you supply facts

 

(like show me that that people are dying from the jab), 

 

and not opinions which are like …), you can be certain your opinions will convince me of nothing.
 

I’m an information junkie, a data analyst and IT professional who evaluates test results every day of my professional life. Someone telling me their code works is not the arbiter of whether it gets to production. Proving the code works through test cases, gets the application installed.  And then we monitor, to see what real life situations failed our testing. 
 

I follow the same methodology in regards to my health. Studies matter, and Israel has openly shared their data as they get it. They are still gathering the facts and new information is available daily. I’m flexible to be able to adjust as it becomes available. 

 

And on that 98% that have survived Covid, it seems awfully cavalier to discard the magnitude of the number that actually didn’t.

I wish you and your loved ones health during  these trying times. For me, I’m grateful to everyone who was brave enough to participate in these clinical trials so that those of us that believe in the science and the data have a vaccine to take.

[SLV123 40]

29 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

For consideration:

https://escipub.com/Articles/IRJPH/IRJPH-2021-08-1005.pdf

Thank you to sharing the article which is very technical

 

 I personally don’t believe I’ve been in 1 public setting since the pandemic started, where people were properly masked. Many people lower their mask to talk. Or prefer it as a chin strap, and then there’s those that challenge the efficacy regardless. 
 

This article is a little easier on the eyes.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

 

Even better, here’s a real life RECENT randomized study conducted by some reputable institutions.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/masks-were-working-all-along/619989/

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

43 minutes ago, SLV123 said:

Not sure what bonafides you have to label Israel’s studies ’supposition’. I’m genuinely interested in hearing the research you’ve done that refutes their methodology, but until you supply facts

 

(like show me that that people are dying from the jab), 

 

and not opinions which are like …), you can be certain your opinions will convince me of nothing.
 

I’m an information junkie, a data analyst and IT professional who evaluates test results every day of my professional life. Someone telling me their code works is not the arbiter of whether it gets to production. Proving the code works through test cases, gets the application installed.  And then we monitor, to see what real life situations failed our testing. 
 

I follow the same methodology in regards to my health. Studies matter, and Israel has openly shared their data as they get it. They are still gathering the facts and new information is available daily. I’m flexible to be able to adjust as it becomes available. 

 

And on that 98% that have survived Covid, it seems awfully cavalier to discard the magnitude of the number that actually didn’t.

I wish you and your loved ones health during  these trying times. For me, I’m grateful to everyone who was brave enough to participate in these clinical trials so that those of us that believe in the science and the data have a vaccine to take.

You cannot know, nor can anyone on this earth, why a person does not contract covid, nor die from it.  If a person has had covid, and does not get it it again, why don''t they?

 

If a person has never had covid, why not?  (I know many)

 

If a person has taken the experimental, money-making drugs, and gets covid, why?  (I know a few)

 

If a person has had the same drugs, then had covid, and lives, why?  (I know a few)

 

If a person has remained covid-free, but takes the drugs, and then dies a short time later, why?  (I know a few)

 

If a person has had the same drugs, as well as covid, then "dies from" covid.... why?  (I know a few)

 

If a person has lived thru covid without the drugs, why?  (I know hundreds)

 

No one, not you, I, nor any of the Fauci sheeple, can say for certain that someone who has had covid (or not), & has been injected, has a higher chance of living.   It is statistically impossible. Said person might have lived without the drugs.  Said person may have died with the drugs.  Both covid and the drugs being politically pushed upon us affect EVERY SINGLE PERSON differently, so how can you be so certain that: 

 individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.