Fee Changes inviting illegal immigration?

[TimsDaisy 0]

The phrase "illegal immigration" is such a fun one to banter about these days in the American political discourse. In the context of most of our immigraiton journeys, however, I think it's basically inapplicable - at least insofar as the scary scary connotations it carries, with images of terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark of night.

Illegal immigration takes many non-scary forms, many are not terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark.

If they enter with the "intent" to marry, we here are quick to call it fraud. But how much of the really meat-and-potatoes laws are being violated? If a couple continues to live in the US with one-half illegally present, having failed to adjust status, that's a lot worse, but it's also a totally different situation.

But merely skipping the I-129F part? The separation? The pointlessness of it all? It may be against the letter of the laws, but if status is properly adjusted after married, is the spirit wholly violated as well?

That is all that matters. It is against the law.

There's no answer to my question there.

[no name 1]

The phrase "illegal immigration" is such a fun one to banter about these days in the American political discourse. In the context of most of our immigraiton journeys, however, I think it's basically inapplicable - at least insofar as the scary scary connotations it carries, with images of terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark of night.

Illegal immigration takes many non-scary forms, many are not terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark.

If they enter with the "intent" to marry, we here are quick to call it fraud. But how much of the really meat-and-potatoes laws are being violated? If a couple continues to live in the US with one-half illegally present, having failed to adjust status, that's a lot worse, but it's also a totally different situation.

But merely skipping the I-129F part? The separation? The pointlessness of it all? It may be against the letter of the laws, but if status is properly adjusted after married, is the spirit wholly violated as well?

That is all that matters. It is against the law.

There's no answer to my question there.

of course not, as there is no answer needed. Who cares if the 'spirit' is violated? It is against the law. End of story.

[jundp 191]

Besides, this is the longest period that we've been apart (2 weeks) in the last 4 years.

I am sorry for your separation, but there are people who have been separated for far longer than 2 weeks and who are just as frustrated with the process. That doesn't mean the process doesn't suck, because it does, but that doesn't mean (imo) that we should skirt the laws.

But still...I think that fees to keep people apart, plus a waiting period (especially spouses, which have a longer waiting time), is somewhat inhumane. But, you know, it's all in the name of national paranoia.

I would say national safety. I would also say that though are laws may seem ridiculous and more stringent, especially when you view the laws of other countries, there's a reason for it. I could move to Germany and marry my fiance and become a resident in about a week. However, there aren't flocks of people trying to immigrate into Germany in the same manner that people are trying to come to America. If no one wanted to be here then we wouldn't have some of these issues.

I may be wrong, but I believe that USCIS is supported wholly by the fees....someone please correct me if I am wrong.

The amount I'll need to dish out for the I-765, I-131 and I-485 just increases from $675 to $1575, as I'll be filing a month "too-late" for moving to this godforsaken place that the US is.

I almost feel like dropping the move...this is adding insult to other already annoying factors.

Then why move here? You have the freedom to NOT come you know.....There are enough people who want to be here who will take your place....

[TimsDaisy 0]

The phrase "illegal immigration" is such a fun one to banter about these days in the American political discourse. In the context of most of our immigraiton journeys, however, I think it's basically inapplicable - at least insofar as the scary scary connotations it carries, with images of terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark of night.

Illegal immigration takes many non-scary forms, many are not terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark.

If they enter with the "intent" to marry, we here are quick to call it fraud. But how much of the really meat-and-potatoes laws are being violated? If a couple continues to live in the US with one-half illegally present, having failed to adjust status, that's a lot worse, but it's also a totally different situation.

But merely skipping the I-129F part? The separation? The pointlessness of it all? It may be against the letter of the laws, but if status is properly adjusted after married, is the spirit wholly violated as well?

That is all that matters. It is against the law.

There's no answer to my question there.

of course not, as there is no answer needed. Who cares if the 'spirit' is violated? It is against the law. End of story.

So much for a discussion. No need to question the laws or talk about them. They're there. Done and dusted.

[TimsDaisy 0]

I may be wrong, but I believe that USCIS is supported wholly by the fees....someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[athena_ny 1]

If people find increasing fees a reason to illegally immigrate (which I'm not sure why you would ever do if there is a legal path - life as an illegal isn't all puppy dogs and butterflies), I have no use for them.

If you can't find a way to get the money to immigrate, then you shouldn't, legally or illegally. End of story.

[Sky007 0]

The phrase "illegal immigration" is such a fun one to banter about these days in the American political discourse. In the context of most of our immigraiton journeys, however, I think it's basically inapplicable - at least insofar as the scary scary connotations it carries, with images of terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark of night.

Illegal immigration takes many non-scary forms, many are not terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark.

If they enter with the "intent" to marry, we here are quick to call it fraud. But how much of the really meat-and-potatoes laws are being violated? If a couple continues to live in the US with one-half illegally present, having failed to adjust status, that's a lot worse, but it's also a totally different situation.

But merely skipping the I-129F part? The separation? The pointlessness of it all? It may be against the letter of the laws, but if status is properly adjusted after married, is the spirit wholly violated as well?

That is all that matters. It is against the law.

All I can say about that is that I don't agree. Law is supposed to be for and by the people as a social contract protecting the rights of others by limiting the rights of one. However, while I love my country and moved because it made my wife/girlfriend (one country it's wife/this one it's girlfriend), I won't say that my country or countries laws are infalible.

I also don't fault those who follow every letter of the law and won't through rude comments towards those who do or don't. Some laws, when broken, cause little harm. Other laws are actually for the protection of the one and the society and thus I can agree with.

Then, I've never been one to follow blindly anyway...but that's me.

[Other rude or abusive comments above that were directed toward my person I will ignore.]

[Clarky and Tarah 0]

All I can say about that is that I don't agree. Law is supposed to be for and by the people as a social contract protecting the rights of others by limiting the rights of one. However, while I love my country and moved because it made my wife/girlfriend (one country it's wife/this one it's girlfriend), I won't say that my country or countries laws are infalible.

I also don't fault those who follow every letter of the law and won't through rude comments towards those who do or don't. Some laws, when broken, cause little harm. Other laws are actually for the protection of the one and the society and thus I can agree with.

Then, I've never been one to follow blindly anyway...but that's me.

[Other rude or abusive comments above that were directed toward my person I will ignore.]

People don't have to blindly follow the law, but if they get caught for visa fraud, they have no one to blame but themselves. I remember reading a post not too long ago about a woman who was exiled from the country for 10 years because she married while petioning for a K1 visa, then entered the country on the K1 visa. I'm sure alot of the posters on here remember that, it wasn't too long ago. I'm not sure how that turned out.

If you know the law and then choose not to follow it, its on your own head what happens to you. It might just be me, but getting my loved one here safely and legally is worth being apart for several months. It might cost more, but I'll get peace of mind, too. I won't have to worry about keeping my lies straight or worrying that they'll realize what I'm doing.

There are ways to go about changing laws, but I don't think visa fraud is one of them. What people do and how they do it is their own choice, we're just posting how we feel about. That's what we were asked to do. When you ask a question on here you're going to get some comments you really like, and others you really don't. It's just part of the process. In the end what you do is totally up to you. If following the letter of the law isn't high on your priority list, that's fine. Apparently it is to alot of people on this forum, though, which can easily be seen by the number of visa petitions filed for fiance/spouses. These people could have just as easily lied on a non immigrant visa and said they spontaneously decided to get married. They didn't, though, soo the odds are you're going to get alot of people very much against it.

Sorry if you thought we were insulting you, I for one was not. I was simply telling you my thoughts on the situation.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

[no name 1]

The phrase "illegal immigration" is such a fun one to banter about these days in the American political discourse. In the context of most of our immigraiton journeys, however, I think it's basically inapplicable - at least insofar as the scary scary connotations it carries, with images of terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark of night.

Illegal immigration takes many non-scary forms, many are not terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark.

If they enter with the "intent" to marry, we here are quick to call it fraud. But how much of the really meat-and-potatoes laws are being violated? If a couple continues to live in the US with one-half illegally present, having failed to adjust status, that's a lot worse, but it's also a totally different situation.

But merely skipping the I-129F part? The separation? The pointlessness of it all? It may be against the letter of the laws, but if status is properly adjusted after married, is the spirit wholly violated as well?

That is all that matters. It is against the law.

All I can say about that is that I don't agree. Law is supposed to be for and by the people as a social contract protecting the rights of others by limiting the rights of one. However, while I love my country and moved because it made my wife/girlfriend (one country it's wife/this one it's girlfriend), I won't say that my country or countries laws are infalible.

I also don't fault those who follow every letter of the law and won't through rude comments towards those who do or don't. Some laws, when broken, cause little harm. Other laws are actually for the protection of the one and the society and thus I can agree with.

Then, I've never been one to follow blindly anyway...but that's me.

[Other rude or abusive comments above that were directed toward my person I will ignore.]

I'm not sure what you are talking about now...?

Anyhow, VJ does not & will not advocate visa fraud - it is a violation of the TOS.

You seem to have already made up your mind about how you are going to proceed. Yet you ignore those who offer you advice. You cannot cherry pick advice on a public message board. I assure you many members have been through what you are about to, yet you discount their info as it doesn't suit your purpose.

BTW, the fee for filing a I-485 is not $325, it is $395.

[TimsDaisy 0]

You cannot cherry pick advice on a public message board.

What else is supposed to be done with it?

[msu17 0]

Oh, TD you beat me to it! If there's one thing to cherry pick, its a public message board!

[TimsDaisy 0]

Oh, TD you beat me to it! If there's one thing to cherry pick, its a public message board!

second only to an actual cherry tree, I'd say.

[no name 1]

You cannot cherry pick advice on a public message board.

What else is supposed to be done with it?

Oh, you & your red pen of (selective) correction! Bravo.

I meant you cannot pick what you want to hear only.

You need to research first, then pick what correlates.

Edited July 9, 2007 by devilette

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

The phrase "illegal immigration" is such a fun one to banter about these days in the American political discourse. In the context of most of our immigraiton journeys, however, I think it's basically inapplicable - at least insofar as the scary scary connotations it carries, with images of terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark of night.

While I certainly don't advocate skirting the laws, I pose an academic question: if someone enters the US on the VWP or any other non-marriage/fiance related visa, marries, and adjusts status, how does it affect you?

They'll still be vetted.

They'll still be paying fees.

They'll still have to report their every move to the government.

If they enter with the "intent" to marry, we here are quick to call it fraud. But how much of the really meat-and-potatoes laws are being violated? If a couple continues to live in the US with one-half illegally present, having failed to adjust status, that's a lot worse, but it's also a totally different situation.

But merely skipping the I-129F part? The separation? The pointlessness of it all? It may be against the letter of the laws, but if status is properly adjusted after married, is the spirit wholly violated as well?

Again, while I don't encourage anyone to skip the I-129F process, I certainly don't fault anyone for doing so. It doesn't affect me or my marriage. It didn't slow down my process.

I tell what is different - they won't have to produce a police report and relatively minor offenses in their home country (such as drugs and petty crime) which would normally require a waiver are unlikely to come up in the FBI name clearance.

And yes, I have seen more than one poster in the AOS forum adjusting from tourist status have problems with the question of intent in their interview.

The "adjusting on a tourist visa" is a loophole that really needs to be closed.

And really, the fees are the cheapest thing about this whole process - if you can't afford them, you can't afford to immigrate.

Edited July 9, 2007 by robinklake

[TimsDaisy 0]

The phrase "illegal immigration" is such a fun one to banter about these days in the American political discourse. In the context of most of our immigraiton journeys, however, I think it's basically inapplicable - at least insofar as the scary scary connotations it carries, with images of terrorists or people forging the Rio Grande in the dark of night.

While I certainly don't advocate skirting the laws, I pose an academic question: if someone enters the US on the VWP or any other non-marriage/fiance related visa, marries, and adjusts status, how does it affect you?

They'll still be vetted.

They'll still be paying fees.

They'll still have to report their every move to the government.

If they enter with the "intent" to marry, we here are quick to call it fraud. But how much of the really meat-and-potatoes laws are being violated? If a couple continues to live in the US with one-half illegally present, having failed to adjust status, that's a lot worse, but it's also a totally different situation.

But merely skipping the I-129F part? The separation? The pointlessness of it all? It may be against the letter of the laws, but if status is properly adjusted after married, is the spirit wholly violated as well?

Again, while I don't encourage anyone to skip the I-129F process, I certainly don't fault anyone for doing so. It doesn't affect me or my marriage. It didn't slow down my process.

I tell what is different - they won't have to produce a police report and relatively minor offenses in their home country (such as drugs and petty crime) which would normally require a waiver are unlikely to come up in the FBI name clearance.

And yes, I have seen more than one poster in the AOS forum adjusting from tourist status have problems with the question of intent in their interview.

The "adjusting on a tourist visa" is a loophole that really needs to be closed.

And really, the fees are the cheapest thing about this whole process - if you can't afford them, you can't afford to immigrate.

Certainly - marriage is expensive, starting a life in a new country more so - a few hundred or even thousand extra dollars really shouldn't be the tipping point.

I don't know if the "loophole" could ever really be closed completely. Then again, I don't think of it as a "loophole," at least not if "loophole" is taken in its usual more-negative way.

Do you think the relatively minor offenses in the home country need to be brought up in the process? If they fall below what the FBI would catch? Not sure from the way you phrased the statement.

You cannot cherry pick advice on a public message board.

What else is supposed to be done with it?

Oh, you & your red pen of (selective) correction! Bravo.

I meant you cannot pick what you want to hear only.

You need to research first, then pick what correlates.

And then pick what correlates? Picking what fits your model of research? That IS cherry picking.

It's also a pretty normal human way of processing information, no?