US plans to require COVID-19 shots for foreign travelers

[yuna628 9,677]

3 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Umm, you do know that there is a vaccine waiver available for intending immigrants, so spreading the mis-information that an intending immigrant has no choice is irresponsible; after-all this is an immigration board.  Now, most people will chose not to add this additional hoop to their already frustrating immigration process, but it is there.

 

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-9-part-d-chapter-3

Of course I do, but the choice for that waiver is extremely narrow, limited, and is unlikely that the immigrant will be able to successfully use it on any of the claims I've seen expressed in this and other threads about the COVID vaccine. And I'm going to assume that around the bend immigrants will be forced to receive those COVID vaccinations too as part of that medical clearance. It is a very high bar for that waiver if you do not have a documented medical reason as to why you are ineligible but those are entirely plausible reasons. There are also religious exemptions, but the waiver makes clear you are not allowed to pick and choose which vaccine you object to in that manner, and narrows what is acceptable - making such claims very rare to be successful, but an immigrant is welcome to try them. My point is, that immigrants with many types of visas have a high rate of compliance for mandatory vaccinations and medicals compared to their US counterparts where there are no mandatory requirements to live here. Therefore there seems to be one level of what is acceptable for an immigrant to have injected into their bodies on their path to eventually become a potential citizen as compared to a born here citizen. And if it is okay for our immigrant spouses (we comply and do what we have to do to get them here) then why is it somehow different for us? Either it's safe and effective for all human beings with limited exceptions or not. Many of the vaccines required are the ones anti-vaccine advocates object to the loudest.

 

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Us too. I bet when it opens up tickets will be $$$$$

My FiL has attempted to ''book'' hypothetical tickets with the airline several times during this process even though the plane hasn't flown since last year. The price is huge. Keep telling him to forget it. I can't imagine it will be any better when the plane starts flying again. I am curious though how the US will enforce or validate the vaccine requirement.

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

We had 2 physicals if I recall and several vaccinations 

I think the majority of our spouses likely had to have that sort of thing.

[Dashinka 24,538]

27 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Of course I do, but the choice for that waiver is extremely narrow, limited, and is unlikely that the immigrant will be able to successfully use it on any of the claims I've seen expressed in this and other threads about the COVID vaccine. And I'm going to assume that around the bend immigrants will be forced to receive those COVID vaccinations too as part of that medical clearance. It is a very high bar for that waiver if you do not have a documented medical reason as to why you are ineligible but those are entirely plausible reasons. There are also religious exemptions, but the waiver makes clear you are not allowed to pick and choose which vaccine you object to in that manner, and narrows what is acceptable - making such claims very rare to be successful, but an immigrant is welcome to try them. My point is, that immigrants with many types of visas have a high rate of compliance for mandatory vaccinations and medicals compared to their US counterparts where there are no mandatory requirements to live here. Therefore there seems to be one level of what is acceptable for an immigrant to have injected into their bodies on their path to eventually become a potential citizen as compared to a born here citizen. And if it is okay for our immigrant spouses (we comply and do what we have to do to get them here) then why is it somehow different for us? Either it's safe and effective for all human beings with limited exceptions or not. Many of the vaccines required are the ones anti-vaccine advocates object to the loudest.

 

My FiL has attempted to ''book'' hypothetical tickets with the airline several times during this process even though the plane hasn't flown since last year. The price is huge. Keep telling him to forget it. I can't imagine it will be any better when the plane starts flying again. I am curious though how the US will enforce or validate the vaccine requirement.

I think the majority of our spouses likely had to have that sort of thing.

It is kind of a poor comparison though requirements for immigration to requirements for USCs.  I guess you are advocating for mandatory vaccines for everyone born a USC, seems far from a Libertarian view, but to each their own.  

 

It is interesting that discussion about vaccines has become the new hot political item.  The simple fact is history is rife with vaccine fails, and the Covid19 vaccines are still very new and we are still learning about them.  Personally I don't have any issues with them, but I can also understand why some people may, and if they finally relent, get the jab, and then have an adverse reaction, there is no recourse.  I think this may be one of the reasons the FDA/pharmaceutical companies are delaying the full approval process as I believe when they are fully approved, the companies will be exposed to potential lawsuits.  

[yuna628 9,677]

16 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

It is kind of a poor comparison though requirements for immigration to requirements for USCs.  I guess you are advocating for mandatory vaccines for everyone born a USC, seems far from a Libertarian view, but to each their own.  

 

It is interesting that discussion about vaccines has become the new hot political item.  The simple fact is history is rife with vaccine fails, and the Covid19 vaccines are still very new and we are still learning about them.  Personally I don't have any issues with them, but I can also understand why some people may, and if they finally relent, get the jab, and then have an adverse reaction, there is no recourse.  I think this may be one of the reasons the FDA/pharmaceutical companies are delaying the full approval process as I believe when they are fully approved, the companies will be exposed to potential lawsuits.  

There are many libertarians that are on both sides of the issue actually. For me I'm simply pointing out that if it was okay and mandatory for our spouses to get vaccines which have had the same wild claims made about them at some point and carry risks of side effects - it's the same thing for us too. There are often claims about illegal immigrants not being vaccinated as some sort of public danger, when there are also many US citizens walking around potentially being public dangers. DeSantis recently stated he did not like the idea of immigrants having to receive vaccines to travel to the US because it would 'hurt the economy'. I scratched my head a bit, because he'd surely have to be aware that immigrants are required to get vaccines on many visas all the time. Some Republicans balked at that statement this morning, as they feel it is very important for all immigrants to have vaccines, and that it is totally in the government's wheelhouse and the responsible thing to do. My simple argument is that it is really not all that different if it is also a US citizen or one that may be so in the future. We all have bodies, we all have the potential for a side effect, we all spend money and travel. I just find it interesting to be advocating personal liberty for one group of people and not another.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

10 hours ago, Crtcl Rice Theory said:

Just in case someone on this site has read this disinformation above. You cannot immigrate to the US with just a TB test. You will need to be current on several vaccines. Please refer to the guidance from the CDC below:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/about/medical-exam-faqs.html#three

Appears your reading comprehension wasn't up to speed last night.  Hopefully you have had some coffee since then and actually understand what I typed.

[Dashinka 24,538]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

There are many libertarians that are on both sides of the issue actually. For me I'm simply pointing out that if it was okay and mandatory for our spouses to get vaccines which have had the same wild claims made about them at some point and carry risks of side effects - it's the same thing for us too. There are often claims about illegal immigrants not being vaccinated as some sort of public danger, when there are also many US citizens walking around potentially being public dangers. DeSantis recently stated he did not like the idea of immigrants having to receive vaccines to travel to the US because it would 'hurt the economy'. I scratched my head a bit, because he'd surely have to be aware that immigrants are required to get vaccines on many visas all the time. Some Republicans balked at that statement this morning, as they feel it is very important for all immigrants to have vaccines, and that it is totally in the government's wheelhouse and the responsible thing to do. My simple argument is that it is really not all that different if it is also a US citizen or one that may be so in the future. We all have bodies, we all have the potential for a side effect, we all spend money and travel. I just find it interesting to be advocating personal liberty for one group of people and not another.

One big difference.  FDA approved vaccines vs Emergency Use/Experimental vaccines.  I am not really sure legally, the CDC can force medical experiments on people, USCs or Immigrants.

 

On another note, if we believe the current occupant of the WH, there area already 350 million Americans vaccinated.  Not sure there is really a problem.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Dashinka

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

18 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

One big difference.  FDA approved vaccines vs Emergency Use/Experimental vaccines.  I am not really sure legally, the CDC can force medical experiments on people, USCs or Immigrants.

 

On another note, if we believe the current occupant of the WH, there area already 350 million Americans vaccinated.  Not sure there is really a problem.

Nailed. It.  

 

The drug people are pushing now is still an experimental one, with absolutely ZERO known about its long-term side effects.

Some of us are old enough to remember thalidomide.

[Dashinka 24,538]

7 minutes ago, LIBrty4all said:

Nailed. It.  

 

The drug people are pushing now is still an experimental one, with absolutely ZERO known about its long-term side effects.

Some of us are old enough to remember thalidomide.

Heck, even CNN did a piece back in September 2020 (albeit, it was simply to put another hit on Trump).

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html

[yuna628 9,677]

31 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

One big difference.  FDA approved vaccines vs Emergency Use/Experimental vaccines.  I am not really sure legally, the CDC can force medical experiments on people, USCs or Immigrants.

 

On another note, if we believe the current occupant of the WH, there area already 350 million Americans vaccinated.  Not sure there is really a problem.

When the FDA approves it, will that be good enough finally or will there be another new excuse?

Edited August 6, 2021 by yuna628

[Dashinka 24,538]

Just now, yuna628 said:

When the FDA approves it, will that be good enough finally or will there another new excuse?

Based on the current guidelines, yes, when the various vaccines get full approval, then they can mandate it for things like immigration, or for the military, etc.  Not sure when that is going to happen, still a lot of data to collect, and time consuming monitoring.

[yuna628 9,677]

1 minute ago, Dashinka said:

Based on the current guidelines, yes, when the various vaccines get full approval, then they can mandate it for things like immigration, or for the military, etc.  Not sure when that is going to happen, still a lot of data to collect, and time consuming monitoring.

It's due to happen within a month or two. But I know full well instead of saying "you can't make me take an experimental vaccine" it will be "well yeah it's an FDA approved vaccine but.." because that's what anti-vaxxers have been doing for years.

[jg121783 3,915]

10 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

It's due to happen within a month or two. But I know full well instead of saying "you can't make me take an experimental vaccine" it will be "well yeah it's an FDA approved vaccine but.." because that's what anti-vaxxers have been doing for years.

FDA approval or not no medical treatments are forced on anyone in a free country. So I guess the question is is this still a free country.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

6 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

It's due to happen within a month or two. But I know full well instead of saying "you can't make me take an experimental vaccine" it will be "well yeah it's an FDA approved vaccine but.." because that's what anti-vaxxers have been doing for years.

I am not an anti-vaxxer.  Am fully vaccinated against everything I am required to be, and probably more vaccines than you have taken.

 

But no, if it is approved in a month or two, I will still oppose it, because it HAS NOT been thru the rigorous, normal testing that the FDA requires for most drugs/vaccines, period.  

 

 

 

[Dashinka 24,538]

6 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

It's due to happen within a month or two. But I know full well instead of saying "you can't make me take an experimental vaccine" it will be "well yeah it's an FDA approved vaccine but.." because that's what anti-vaxxers have been doing for years.

Anti-vaxxers will always be there regardless.  I am more interested in why they are pushing the vaccine so hard now especially on those that already recovered from confirmed Covid19.  We will see what happens, but the flu vaccine was never mandated for USCs, not sure why the various Covid19 vaccines would be different (I know, Covid19 is not the flu, but the numbers are are really starting to show that it is regardless of the fear mongering).

 

As to full approval, who knows when that will happen, I think only Pfizer and Moderna have applied for full approval.  I expect the FDA will accelerate their process (probably a bad idea for a bloated government bureaucracy), but I suspect it will still be several months away.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

3 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Anti-vaxxers will always be there regardless.  I am more interested in why they are pushing the vaccine so hard now especially on those that already recovered from confirmed Covid19.  We will see what happens, but the flu vaccine was never mandated for USCs, not sure why the various Covid19 vaccines would be different (I know, Covid19 is not the flu, but the numbers are are really starting to show that it is regardless of the fear mongering).

 

As to full approval, who knows when that will happen, I think only Pfizer and Moderna have applied for full approval.  I expect the FDA will accelerate their process (probably a bad idea for a bloated government bureaucracy), but I suspect it will still be several months away.

And THIS is what all the intelligent people I know are asking.  Why such a push?  No one seems to care about the AIDS pandemic that has been raging for decades and killing 32 MILLION people.  What, exactly, is creating SO MUCH FEAR over a virus that has greater than a 99% survivability rate????  

 

ETA: I disagree with your "several months away" theory.  I think it will happen in the next 30-60 days, sadly.  

Edited August 6, 2021 by LIBrty4all

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,376]

23 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

When the FDA approves it, will that be good enough finally or will there be another new excuse?

Yes but we will rush to take heart worm medicine because Day seen it on the internets