Utah County Proxy (Zoom) wedding

[John & Rose 7,239]

Just now, payxibka said:

It's a proven viable option.   

I saw that with a few but it is early in the game.  My step son is an LPR so that may be another challenge and the timing for filing is still murky.  We will probably wait until they are together but the way I read the statute, the wedding date is valid for filing even if the consummation happens at a later date.  So marry, file and consummate prior to the interview would be the same as marry, consummate and file.  I have to do more studying on that part.

 

[HRQX 4,145]

1 hour ago, John & Rose said:

I have to do more studying on that part.

In the following thread the petitioner had to refile the I-130 because the marriage was not consummated before the first I-130 was filed:

Edited August 4, 2021 by HRQX

[Skyman 327]

36 minutes ago, Joe Kano said:

Really? What are they jealous they are stuck in Philippines and other are able to escape? That's a dirty trick to pull on kids and make them cry and scared. 

Exactly right. Very jealous of those attending.   And believe it or not, it used to be much worse with the spouses and fiances being made to cry because it was run by nazi nuns who asked a lot questions well beyond their business. My wife was sent home to get docs that weren't on the list and then sent home again for more stuff.  BS.

[Joe Kano 327]

9 minutes ago, Skyman said:

Exactly right. Very jealous of those attending.   And believe it or not, it used to be much worse with the spouses and fiances being made to cry because it was run by nazi nuns who asked a lot questions well beyond their business. My wife was sent home to get docs that weren't on the list and then sent home again for more stuff.  BS.

What year was that? When we did CFO first time it was either St. Marys which was all nuns, or PRISM which had the reputation of being the mean one to use? I think it was around 2008 

[Chancy 6,243]

2 minutes ago, John & Rose said:

We will probably wait until they are together but the way I read the statute, the wedding date is valid for filing even if the consummation happens at a later date.  So marry, file and consummate prior to the interview would be the same as marry, consummate and file.

 

The DOS FAM provision about being valid from the date of the proxy ceremony will be important in determining the length of the marriage if there is a need to upgrade the category at the time of visa issuance.  But it does not mean that they can file the petition with USCIS before consummation.  The petition is not supposed to be approved if USCIS does not consider them spouses in the first place.

 

From the USCIS Adjudicator’s Field Manual -- https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/policy-manual-afm/afm21-external.pdf

 

Proxy Marriages
Section 101(a)(35) of the Act provides that the term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present together at the ceremony, unless the marriage has been consummated afterwards. (Note: Consummation of a marriage can only occur after the ceremony, there is no such thing as “pre-consummation” of a marriage.)

 

[John & Rose 7,239]

3 minutes ago, Joe Kano said:

What year was that? When we did CFO first time it was either St. Marys which was all nuns, or PRISM which had the reputation of being the mean one to use? I think it was around 2008 

Wasn't it more about selling credit cards than actually talking about the cultural differences when the nuns ran it?

[Joe Kano 327]

13 minutes ago, John & Rose said:

Wasn't it more about selling credit cards than actually talking about the cultural differences when the nuns ran it?

Yes, that was part of the CFO pitch, plus they also talked about making pinays sex slaves and physically abusing them. I tried to actually enter the class and tried to play dumb, but that didn't work. I walked down the street to Shakeys Pizza and ate while my gf attended.

 

Around 2000 CFO was pitching the girls to make sure they remitted money back to Philippines Social Security once they started working in the USA.  

 

But at the time St Marys was known as the easier of the two, they had PRISM on Taft which had the reputation as being the difficult one that would seek out the weak, shy, and the ones whom lacked confidence and exploit them.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Joe Kano

[John & Rose 7,239]

3 minutes ago, Chancy said:

 

The DOS FAM provision about being valid from the date of the proxy ceremony will be important in determining the length of the marriage if there is a need to upgrade the category at the time of visa issuance.  But it does not mean that they can file the petition with USCIS before consummation.  The petition is not supposed to be approved if USCIS does not consider them spouses in the first place.

 

From the USCIS Adjudicator’s Field Manual -- https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/policy-manual-afm/afm21-external.pdf

 

Proxy Marriages
Section 101(a)(35) of the Act provides that the term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present together at the ceremony, unless the marriage has been consummated afterwards. (Note: Consummation of a marriage can only occur after the ceremony, there is no such thing as “pre-consummation” of a marriage.)

 

But  that doesn't say when they can file and consummation after the wedding will retroactively make them a "spouse" so once consummated, they would be legally a spouse no matter when they file as long as it is after the wedding...  This is a very gray area.  So they are not "spouse", "wife" or "husband" until consummated but consummation after the wedding will retroactively make them a spouse, wife or husband, at the date of the wedding.  LOL  I love governmentese...

[Chancy 6,243]

14 minutes ago, John & Rose said:

This is a very gray area.

 

The I-130 instructions say who can't file, so it's not a gray area as far as USCIS is concerned --

 

"You may NOT file Form I-130 for a person in the following categories:

[...]

4.  A spouse, if you and your spouse were not both physically present at the marriage ceremony, unless the marriage was consummated;"

 

And as the USCIS field manual said, consummation of a marriage can only occur after the ceremony.

 

[Skyman 327]

1 hour ago, Joe Kano said:

What year was that? When we did CFO first time it was either St. Marys which was all nuns, or PRISM which had the reputation of being the mean one to use? I think it was around 2008 

2009/10. In Cebu. There was no option. You went their office about 6AM and waited.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Skyman

[Skyman 327]

1 hour ago, John & Rose said:

Wasn't it more about selling credit cards than actually talking about the cultural differences when the nuns ran it?

It was more about the nuns getting off their repressed sexual urges asking the girls if they went to their fiance's hotel rooms when they visited and if they had sex  etc.  Yes, they would be beaten and forced into prostitution, etc.  And Don't forget to send your family money because they're their family's only hope. Talk about prostitution. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Skyman

[payxibka 10,047]

1 hour ago, John & Rose said:

I saw that with a few but it is early in the game.  My step son is an LPR so that may be another challenge and the timing for filing is still murky.  We will probably wait until they are together but the way I read the statute, the wedding date is valid for 

 

Why would there be a different kind of challenge between between an LPR or USC?  

[John & Rose 7,239]

Great point. I never thought about it but sending them off to foreign lands and making sure they send money back is right up there with prostitution and even human trafficking. There are differences but we all know cases where the visa was more about cash and less about relationship. It does happen. 

4 minutes ago, payxibka said:

Why would there be a different kind of challenge between between an LPR or USC?  

Timelines mainly. F2 was banned for a while last year. There is a huge backlog. 

[HRQX 4,145]

51 minutes ago, John & Rose said:

This is a very gray area.

Actually it's pretty clear; do NOT file I-130 before the marriage is consummated. USCIS relies on Title 8 of the CFR and the "be filed" of 8 CFR § 204.1 in conjunction with clarification of "spouse" in the INA results in the consummation needing to happen in the period in between the marriage ceremony and I-130 filing.

 

Although note that the BIA has technically not weighed-in on consummation in the period in between petition filing and petition adjudication.

2 hours ago, John & Rose said:

consummate prior to the interview

In contrast, the BIA has weighed-in on consummation not occurring before petition adjudication. See Matter of B–, 5 I&N Dec. 698 (BIA 1954). https://casetext.com/admin-law/in-the-matter-of-b-16 "Accordingly, the visa petition will be denied as to the husband."

[Murph4865 597]

2 hours ago, John & Rose said:

My wife had it easy when she did it during our K-1.  My step kids did it with their CR-2s and it was awful.  They learned things like Americans only bathe once a week and since their step father was old they would get social security money.  Oh, and I only petitioned my wife so someone would take care of me.  Luckily they already knew me well but other kids in the peer counseling were crying at the end and were afraid to leave the Philippines.

I beg to differ i bathe 1.5 times per week they was wrong. 😹😹😹😹