REVIVING THE 'MELTING POT'

[rebeccajo 14]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I look at people coming and going through the world as something governments shouldn't mess with unless there are security issues. I believe that economics (if it's not being interferred with also by the government) will naturally take care of the issues. When migrants came to this nation in the purer Ellis Island days, they sank or swam. And that's one reason they did eventually assimilate.

Purer Ellis Island days, eh? A lot of people were turned away at Ellis Island and our borders, while more open in those days, were not really 'open'. My great-grandfather was one of those Ellis Island immigrants (I've seen his record online) and luckily he could read and write and speak a little English; he was young, healthy, and willing to work....and wasn't obviously ill. He died in the 1950s so I can't ask him exactly what went on when he landed as an immigrant, but I've heard accounts from other family members and he is said to have stated that many people on his boat were quarantined or immediately deported. He said it was in no way EASY to get into the USA. He loved America and actively assimilated into American culture, though he continued to speak his native language (Polish) at home and celebrated holidays the Polish way, something my family continues to do to this day.

My great-grandfather also didn't have to sink or swim. There were already vibrant Polish communities in the northeast and he never had to hunt for a job or a place to sleep; they helped him get on his feet before he struck out on his own. He didn't just step off the boat wearing a flat cap and tattered coat, carpet bag in hand, looking at the Statue of Liberty in awe and wonder before striking off into America and making it big. So NOT how it happened.

Vibrant hispanic communities here as well, HA. As you so often point out I might add. Like in your reply to Caladan.

Your point being?

I don't need to make a point. You already made it for me.

[homesick_american 1]

I don't need to make a point. You already made it for me.

I'm glad I came back; you amuse me.

Oh, by the way....here's your words back. You accidentally left them in my mouth.

[pedroh 21]

When people keep sprinkling their anti-immigration screeds with 'mariachi band listening dope fiend fence jumper dirty HIV carrying Mexicans', it's hard to see where the rational argument begins and the prejudice ends.

Certainly, a post where the claim is, roughly, those dirty Mexicans aren't assimilating, we'll be overrun, is not a post that screams patient rational argument.

I'm not anti-Hispanic but come down to Texas sometime where 'Se Habla Espanol' is the norm; signs and legal documents come in both languages...restaurants sometimes print menus in both languages, Best Buy has signs in both languages, and you have to speak Spanish in order to ask a gas station worker or McDonald's employee where the banos are, it seems to me that at least a few people aren't assimilating. I understand that a lot of them DO eventually learn English or they're trying their best, but the fact that you can live quite happily in Texas as a Spanish speaker and never have to learn English tells me that there's not as much incentive to take even a small step towards assimilation, i.e. LEARNING ENGLISH.

dude Texas was like that loong before the illegals arrived there, Texas has always been bilingual, way before it were an independent Republic or part of Mexico.. true, since always there has been towns where the people that live there never had to learn english, but that's not just because the illegals, that's way older.. and OMG Best Buy has signs in 2 languages.. that's destroying the assimilation process, or we have telemundo and soccer.. uhh.. that's a big deal.. that's just business, if people weren't paying for those things, there wouldn't be hispanic cable or bilingual signs in Lowes....

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

Edited July 10, 2007 by pedroh

[Ban Hammer 13,109]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

so we're gonna compare some tourist place to best buy?

[homesick_american 1]

When people keep sprinkling their anti-immigration screeds with 'mariachi band listening dope fiend fence jumper dirty HIV carrying Mexicans', it's hard to see where the rational argument begins and the prejudice ends.

Certainly, a post where the claim is, roughly, those dirty Mexicans aren't assimilating, we'll be overrun, is not a post that screams patient rational argument.

I'm not anti-Hispanic but come down to Texas sometime where 'Se Habla Espanol' is the norm; signs and legal documents come in both languages...restaurants sometimes print menus in both languages, Best Buy has signs in both languages, and you have to speak Spanish in order to ask a gas station worker or McDonald's employee where the banos are, it seems to me that at least a few people aren't assimilating. I understand that a lot of them DO eventually learn English or they're trying their best, but the fact that you can live quite happily in Texas as a Spanish speaker and never have to learn English tells me that there's not as much incentive to take even a small step towards assimilation, i.e. LEARNING ENGLISH.

dude Texas was like that loong before the illegals arrived there, Texas has always been bilingual, way before it were an independent Republic or part of Mexico.. true, since always there has been towns where the people that live there never had to learn english, but that's not just because the illegals, that's way older.. and OMG Best Buy has signs in 2 languages.. that's destroying the assimilation process, or we have telemundo and soccer.. uhh.. that's a big deal.. that's just business, if people weren't paying for those things, there wouldn't be hispanic cable or bilingual signs in Lowes....

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

I've met few Texians (the people you're referring to who've been here forever) who could speak Spanish, so there goes that theory.

Texas is in the United States, and the lingua franca of the United States is English. Not Spanish.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish...

I asked earlier in another thread and didn't get a response. So, let me try again: How's that multiculturalism coming along in Mexico? Folks there pressing one for Spanish yet when they call their government agencies?

[KaiserD 12]

Can someone explain to me why the protesters for amnesty were waving their own flags? I'm not being sarcastic or anything..

Trying to put myself in their shoes, say I want to work legally so I can have a better job for my family. I'm applying on the goodwill of people to see that I am willing to work hard in this country, asking them not to judge me, that I am a human being who wants a chance to a good life ... I would be waving an *American* flag to say "I want to be part of what you are... if you give me a chance you will see that I will add to your community for the better".

I will always consider myself Cornish, am very proud of my little heritage but still... I moved to the US, I will make the effort to be part of this American community, I get to observe American holidays waving an American flag - I have moved into their space after all, it seems naturally the right and respecful thing to do. While I realise the gaps between US and UK cultures are very little compared to others, there are still things to adjust and change to - even if language isn't one of them.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

so we're gonna compare some tourist place to best buy?

yeah. not a fair comparison

[no name 1]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

Went to Puerto Vallarta last year & I can assure you it was more Spanish speaking than English.

[Ban Hammer 13,109]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

Went to Puerto Vallarta last year & I can assure you it was more Spanish speaking than English.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Can someone explain to me why the protesters for amnesty were waving their own flags? I'm not being sarcastic or anything..

Trying to put myself in their shoes, say I want to work legally so I can have a better job for my family. I'm applying on the goodwill of people to see that I am willing to work hard in this country, asking them not to judge me, that I am a human being who wants a chance to a good life ... I would be waving an *American* flag to say "I want to be part of what you are... if you give me a chance you will see that I will add to your community for the better".

I will always consider myself Cornish, am very proud of my little heritage but still... I moved to the US, I will make the effort to be part of this American community, I get to observe American holidays waving an American flag - I have moved into their space after all, it seems naturally the right and respecful thing to do. While I realise the gaps between US and UK cultures are very little compared to others, there are still things to adjust and change to - even if language isn't one of them.

[no name 1]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

Went to Puerto Vallarta last year & I can assure you it was more Spanish speaking than English.

I think they have selective English for the tourists....

[pedroh 21]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

so we're gonna compare some tourist place to best buy?

yeah. not a fair comparison

because the english or spanish is related to business.. best buy wouldn't have spanish signs if spanish speaker customers didn't buy products.. do you think they would have a 'welcome to best buy/ bienvenido a best buy' just for sh!ts and giggles? they do it because more people will buy there, not because there's a hidden agenda of making spanish the official language of the USA

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't need to make a point. You already made it for me.

I'm glad I came back; you amuse me.

Oh, by the way....here's your words back. You accidentally left them in my mouth.

Here's your bad attitude back. I see it followed you from Trollland - erm, the UK.

[Dan J 277]

go to Ajijic or Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.. you'll see more english signs and more people speaking english than spanish..

so we're gonna compare some tourist place to best buy?

yeah. not a fair comparison

because the english or spanish is related to business.. best buy wouldn't have spanish signs if spanish speaker customers didn't buy products.. do you think they would have a 'welcome to best buy/ bienvenido a best buy' just for sh!ts and giggles? they do it because more people will buy there, not because there's a hidden agenda of making spanish the official language of the USA

Yup, catering to your customers is good for business. Even if English is the official language, most business will use the language or languages of their customers. If you can sell to them in a language that they are comfortable in, they are more likely to buy your products. It just makes good business sense.