REVIVING THE 'MELTING POT'

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

When people keep sprinkling their anti-immigration screeds with 'mariachi band listening dope fiend fence jumper dirty HIV carrying Mexicans', it's hard to see where the rational argument begins and the prejudice ends.

Certainly, a post where the claim is, roughly, those dirty Mexicans aren't assimilating, we'll be overrun, is not a post that screams patient rational argument.

What people? Who made that statement?

not from this specific post, but you know there are a lot of people here that whenever they refer to illegal immigrants its always 'They are ALL rapists, drugdealers, killers' thats a prejudiced statement, whenever they use that stupid generalization

They are until they undergo a background check. I didn't get a secret clearance from the government until I got a background check.

so everybody is not to trust by the government unless they get a clearance.. that's a lame argument, that way i can think my white neighbors are KKK members unless proven the other way, or that some other neighbor is a rapist unless a background check... that's a prejudiced generalization

Think what you want. But immigration is a privilege. Living next to you isn't.

[Ban Hammer 13,276]

When people keep sprinkling their anti-immigration screeds with 'mariachi band listening dope fiend fence jumper dirty HIV carrying Mexicans', it's hard to see where the rational argument begins and the prejudice ends.

Certainly, a post where the claim is, roughly, those dirty Mexicans aren't assimilating, we'll be overrun, is not a post that screams patient rational argument.

What people? Who made that statement?

not from this specific post, but you know there are a lot of people here that whenever they refer to illegal immigrants its always 'They are ALL rapists, drugdealers, killers' thats a prejudiced statement, whenever they use that stupid generalization

They are until they undergo a background check. I didn't get a secret clearance from the government until I got a background check.

so everybody is not to trust by the government unless they get a clearance.. that's a lame argument, that way i can think my white neighbors are KKK members unless proven the other way, or that some other neighbor is a rapist unless a background check... that's a prejudiced generalization

the background check ls was referring to is far different than that conducted on immigrants

[homesick_american 1]

I'm not, never have been nor ever will be a proponent of simply letting people in willy nilly. But I don't think our government has the right to keep anyone out for any reason other than they pose a potential security threat.

It sounds to me like you are in favor of letting people in willy-nilly if the government can't eliminate potential immigrants who won't contribute meaningfully to American society. Sounds like you think the government should only be allowed to keep out terrorists, which to me approaches 'willy-nilly'.

[homesick_american 1]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I look at people coming and going through the world as something governments shouldn't mess with unless there are security issues. I believe that economics (if it's not being interferred with also by the government) will naturally take care of the issues. When migrants came to this nation in the purer Ellis Island days, they sank or swam. And that's one reason they did eventually assimilate.

Purer Ellis Island days, eh? A lot of people were turned away at Ellis Island and our borders, while more open in those days, were not really 'open'. My great-grandfather was one of those Ellis Island immigrants (I've seen his record online) and luckily he could read and write and speak a little English; he was young, healthy, and willing to work....and wasn't obviously ill. He died in the 1950s so I can't ask him exactly what went on when he landed as an immigrant, but I've heard accounts from other family members and he is said to have stated that many people on his boat were quarantined or immediately deported. He said it was in no way EASY to get into the USA. He loved America and actively assimilated into American culture, though he continued to speak his native language (Polish) at home and celebrated holidays the Polish way, something my family continues to do to this day.

My great-grandfather also didn't have to sink or swim. There were already vibrant Polish communities in the northeast and he never had to hunt for a job or a place to sleep; they helped him get on his feet before he struck out on his own. He didn't just step off the boat wearing a flat cap and tattered coat, carpet bag in hand, looking at the Statue of Liberty in awe and wonder before striking off into America and making it big. So NOT how it happened.

[homesick_american 1]

When people keep sprinkling their anti-immigration screeds with 'mariachi band listening dope fiend fence jumper dirty HIV carrying Mexicans', it's hard to see where the rational argument begins and the prejudice ends.

Certainly, a post where the claim is, roughly, those dirty Mexicans aren't assimilating, we'll be overrun, is not a post that screams patient rational argument.

I'm not anti-Hispanic but come down to Texas sometime where 'Se Habla Espanol' is the norm; signs and legal documents come in both languages...restaurants sometimes print menus in both languages, Best Buy has signs in both languages, and you have to speak Spanish in order to ask a gas station worker or McDonald's employee where the banos are, it seems to me that at least a few people aren't assimilating. I understand that a lot of them DO eventually learn English or they're trying their best, but the fact that you can live quite happily in Texas as a Spanish speaker and never have to learn English tells me that there's not as much incentive to take even a small step towards assimilation, i.e. LEARNING ENGLISH.

[smoke20 0]

i said " i wasn't going to get in this again" but, i changed my mind.

we need to follow Tulsa's & Oklahoma's lead: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19466978/

START HARASSING OUR POLITICIANS!!!!! WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!!!!

Edited July 9, 2007 by smoke20

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

When people keep sprinkling their anti-immigration screeds with 'mariachi band listening dope fiend fence jumper dirty HIV carrying Mexicans', it's hard to see where the rational argument begins and the prejudice ends.

Certainly, a post where the claim is, roughly, those dirty Mexicans aren't assimilating, we'll be overrun, is not a post that screams patient rational argument.

I'm not anti-Hispanic but come down to Texas sometime where 'Se Habla Espanol' is the norm; signs and legal documents come in both languages...restaurants sometimes print menus in both languages, Best Buy has signs in both languages, and you have to speak Spanish in order to ask a gas station worker or McDonald's employee where the banos are, it seems to me that at least a few people aren't assimilating. I understand that a lot of them DO eventually learn English or they're trying their best, but the fact that you can live quite happily in Texas as a Spanish speaker and never have to learn English tells me that there's not as much incentive to take even a small step towards assimilation, i.e. LEARNING ENGLISH.

It's the lack of diversity in the immigrant community - certainly in regards to the language - that seems to hamper the assimilation process. I can't quite figure out who at the government level thought it would be a good idea to offer everything and anything in ever more languages rather than putting the resources that takes where they can actually help immigrants to learn the language of the land and help them integrate that way.

Edited July 9, 2007 by ET-US2004

[Heracles 417]

i am not going to give details... but suffice it to say i know what i speaketh about. the fear expressed in these editorials and the accompanying comments are generally unfounded. by and large the hispanic community has integrated quite well in this country.

and a good example of that is them willing to learn to speak English.. Or maybe it is their own spanish speaking TV and radio channels. This must be a new type of immigration integration that I have never heard of.

raising fear by claiming the destruction of america by "non assimilation" is another ball of wax.

What part of they have broken the law an entered another sovereign nation are we not understanding here..

hey, they send their sons and daughters to fight our wars too. bad apples in their midst? certainly. what group doesn't? i think you get my gist. i have no fear for america by these people. i wish the situation wasn't what it is, but it is what it is and we have to make the best of it.

Some like MS13 hey. What I feel you're implying is that there are a few bad apples so we should not punish any illegal immigrants. As a consequence thousand of Americans may be subject to violence or even be killed by these bad apples. Therefore those crimes against the citizens of this land by people who are technically foreign invaders should be simply seen as collateral damage for a greater cause right?

Fearmongering just isn't my cup of tea.

I call it accepting reality. Like the richest man in the world being from Mexico living in Mexico.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Infidel

[homesick_american 1]

When people keep sprinkling their anti-immigration screeds with 'mariachi band listening dope fiend fence jumper dirty HIV carrying Mexicans', it's hard to see where the rational argument begins and the prejudice ends.

Certainly, a post where the claim is, roughly, those dirty Mexicans aren't assimilating, we'll be overrun, is not a post that screams patient rational argument.

I'm not anti-Hispanic but come down to Texas sometime where 'Se Habla Espanol' is the norm; signs and legal documents come in both languages...restaurants sometimes print menus in both languages, Best Buy has signs in both languages, and you have to speak Spanish in order to ask a gas station worker or McDonald's employee where the banos are, it seems to me that at least a few people aren't assimilating. I understand that a lot of them DO eventually learn English or they're trying their best, but the fact that you can live quite happily in Texas as a Spanish speaker and never have to learn English tells me that there's not as much incentive to take even a small step towards assimilation, i.e. LEARNING ENGLISH.

It's the lack of diversity in the immigrant community - certainly in regards to the language - that seems to hamper the assimilation process.

My great-grandfather ended up in rural Connecticut and he wasn't the only Polish-speaker there. His English from what I'm told was never completely fluent, but he was 18-20 years old when he landed at Ellis Island and since he was an ethnic Pole from Russia he spoke both Polish and Russian, so English was his third language. My great-grandmother was born to Polish and Swedish parents in the USA but she wasn't nearly as assimilated and oddly did not speak ANY language fluently; she spoke a mixture of Polish and Swedish growing up. She spoke English but threw in Polish and Swedish words and as a result we use words in our family behind closed doors that would get raised eyebrows from other Americans. My grandmother, born and raised in the USA, used that same pidgin language sometimes at home and though she spoke English fluently, she didn't learn English until she went to school. I still use some of her and my great-grandmother's Polish and Swedish words at home with my mother.

The thing is...you CAN speak your native language at home and still be assimilated. My great-grandfather worked so hard to learn English and I've seen letters he wrote in English. His spelling and grammar were not that great but you can tell he tried so hard. He owned a restaurant in WASP Connecticut and did well. He adored America but he didn't want to turn his back completely on his Polish roots. Nobody asked him to either. I don't want people to turn their backs on their native cultures; my family certainly hasn't; but I would expect them to work as hard as my great-grandfather did to learn English and fit into American society. It was important for him that his daughters were fully assimilated and seen as Americans rather than immigrants. He loved this country because he could be both Polish and American; he died an American citizen. He knew that the key to fitting in here was learning the language. He was never completely fluent but he did his level best and that's all anyone can ask. Immigrants who come to the USA as adults will likely never attain native fluency in English or lose their accents, but I don't expect that. I just expect them to be able to get along in English. It's not like I'm monolingual myself; I speak several languages and I know it's hard to learn a new language. I sympathize. However...if I wanted to move to Germany, I would be expected to learn German and I wouldn't think it unreasonable at ALL for people to expect me to bust my a$$ to learn it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The thing is...you CAN speak your native language at home and still be assimilated.

I agree. I actually think that maintaining the native language and passing it on to next generations is quite desirable. As long as doing so doesn't trigger a perceived need for public services to be made available in all kinds of languages. As a nation, we should be able to converse in public spaces using a common language.

[Heracles 417]

The thing is...you CAN speak your native language at home and still be assimilated.

I agree. I actually think that maintaining the native language and passing it on to next generations is quite desirable. As long as doing so doesn't trigger a perceived need for public services to be made available in all kinds of languages. As a nation, we should be able to converse in public spaces using a common language.

I am happy with services being made available in other languages but we have a situation where only Spanish is being favored and catered for.

How are these guys ever going to assimilate when everything is being adjusted to suit them. There is no reason to assimilate.

Would not be surprised if states soon force every American child attending public schools to learn Spanish.

[rebeccajo 14]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I look at people coming and going through the world as something governments shouldn't mess with unless there are security issues. I believe that economics (if it's not being interferred with also by the government) will naturally take care of the issues. When migrants came to this nation in the purer Ellis Island days, they sank or swam. And that's one reason they did eventually assimilate.

Purer Ellis Island days, eh? A lot of people were turned away at Ellis Island and our borders, while more open in those days, were not really 'open'. My great-grandfather was one of those Ellis Island immigrants (I've seen his record online) and luckily he could read and write and speak a little English; he was young, healthy, and willing to work....and wasn't obviously ill. He died in the 1950s so I can't ask him exactly what went on when he landed as an immigrant, but I've heard accounts from other family members and he is said to have stated that many people on his boat were quarantined or immediately deported. He said it was in no way EASY to get into the USA. He loved America and actively assimilated into American culture, though he continued to speak his native language (Polish) at home and celebrated holidays the Polish way, something my family continues to do to this day.

My great-grandfather also didn't have to sink or swim. There were already vibrant Polish communities in the northeast and he never had to hunt for a job or a place to sleep; they helped him get on his feet before he struck out on his own. He didn't just step off the boat wearing a flat cap and tattered coat, carpet bag in hand, looking at the Statue of Liberty in awe and wonder before striking off into America and making it big. So NOT how it happened.

Vibrant hispanic communities here as well, HA. As you so often point out I might add. Like in your reply to Caladan.

Edited July 9, 2007 by rebeccajo

[JoeMama 0]

The thing is...you CAN speak your native language at home and still be assimilated.

I agree. I actually think that maintaining the native language and passing it on to next generations is quite desirable. As long as doing so doesn't trigger a perceived need for public services to be made available in all kinds of languages. As a nation, we should be able to converse in public spaces using a common language.

I am happy with services being made available in other languages but we have a situation where only Spanish is being favored and catered for.

How are these guys ever going to assimilate when everything is being adjusted to suit them. There is no reason to assimilate.

Would not be surprised if states soon force every American child attending public schools to learn Spanish.

That is already taking place here in the schools where I live. Because it is an agricultural community with many immigrants coming from the southern US border to work the fields. How many are illegal, God only knows. But you are right that no one will ever learn a damn thing on their own if one ethnic group is being favored, suited, and catered to only one them. It's obvious that this is what is really pissing off many English-speaking Americans whether they were born here or went through the tough immigration process to get here legally and learned English to assimilate.

[homesick_american 1]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I look at people coming and going through the world as something governments shouldn't mess with unless there are security issues. I believe that economics (if it's not being interferred with also by the government) will naturally take care of the issues. When migrants came to this nation in the purer Ellis Island days, they sank or swam. And that's one reason they did eventually assimilate.

Purer Ellis Island days, eh? A lot of people were turned away at Ellis Island and our borders, while more open in those days, were not really 'open'. My great-grandfather was one of those Ellis Island immigrants (I've seen his record online) and luckily he could read and write and speak a little English; he was young, healthy, and willing to work....and wasn't obviously ill. He died in the 1950s so I can't ask him exactly what went on when he landed as an immigrant, but I've heard accounts from other family members and he is said to have stated that many people on his boat were quarantined or immediately deported. He said it was in no way EASY to get into the USA. He loved America and actively assimilated into American culture, though he continued to speak his native language (Polish) at home and celebrated holidays the Polish way, something my family continues to do to this day.

My great-grandfather also didn't have to sink or swim. There were already vibrant Polish communities in the northeast and he never had to hunt for a job or a place to sleep; they helped him get on his feet before he struck out on his own. He didn't just step off the boat wearing a flat cap and tattered coat, carpet bag in hand, looking at the Statue of Liberty in awe and wonder before striking off into America and making it big. So NOT how it happened.

Vibrant hispanic communities here as well, HA. As you so often point out I might add. Like in your reply to Caladan.

Your point being?

[Nagishkaw 510]

If you want to come in, try knocking on the door first.