Rudy Giuliani is suspended from practicing law in New York over false statements about Trump election loss

[laylalex 7,300]

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A New York court on Thursday suspended Rudy Giuliani from practicing law in the state, citing his “false and misleading statements” about the election loss of former President Donald Trump.

The suspension, which takes effect immediately, is a stunning blow to the 77-year-old Giuliani, a former New York mayor who was once a top Justice Department official and U.S. attorney in Manhattan.

...

“We conclude that there is uncontroverted evidence that respondent communicated demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large in his capacity as lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump and the Trump campaign in connection with Trump’s failed effort at reelection in 2020,” the order said.

The court also said Giuliani’s “false statements were made to improperly bolster respondent’s narrative that due to widespread voter fraud, victory in the 2020 United States presidential election was stolen from his client.”

“We conclude that respondent’s conduct immediately threatens the public interest and warrants interim suspension from the practice of law, pending further proceedings before the Attorney Grievance Committee.”

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/24/rudy-giuliani-suspended-from-practicing-law-in-new-york-due-to-trump-statements-.html

 

 

[TBoneTX 46,111]

Thought-crimes are now illegal.

[Suze1 366]

Nope...manifestations of those thoughts can be, however.

[TBoneTX 46,111]

Only in one direction, seemingly.

[Dashinka 24,786]

Politics by other means? Giuliani suspension should worry all lawyers

 

The fact is that many reckless statements are made by lawyers about elections and other controversies. Even President Biden has been confronted over his false statements about Georgia's election law; rather than correct his claims, he has continued to repeat them - just as the court cited Giuliani for doing, outside of court.

 

Likewise, lawyers often make sensational, false claims that inflame public opinion, such as insisting former Attorney General William Barr violently cleared D.C.'s Lafayette Square last year to arrange for Trump's controversial photo op outside St. John's Episcopal Church. The claim outraged many Americans, even though there was no evidence to prove it; several lawyers repeated the photo op myth as fact on TV. An inspector general and a federal court both later debunked the myth, but the damage was done: To this day, many people believe it. Nevertheless, I do not believe any lawyers should be suspended for such claims, which should be protected as free speech.

 

The New York court brushes over the free speech implications of its ruling with a conclusory statement that Giuliani knowingly misrepresented facts, even though it did not afford him a hearing on that or other questions.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/politics-by-other-means-giuliani-suspension-should-worry-all-lawyers/ar-AALtztj?ocid=BingNewsSearch

[TBoneTX 46,111]

It's selective persecution.

[TBoneTX 46,111]

Really interesting, from a former Federal prosecutor.

Quote

Giuliani's Suspension: Questionable Statements, But Not by Him

By John O'Connor - July 1, 2021

 

[...] Most of the public will read headlines and short articles about the foregoing and assume that Giuliani was proven to a court's satisfaction to have knowingly lied.  But upon closer examination of the ruling by the New York appellate court, we see clearly questionable statements — not by Giuliani, but about him.  [...]

 

Continues here:   https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/07/giulianis_suspension_questionable_statements_but_not_by_him.html  

Edited July 2, 2021 by TBoneTX

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,381]

so basically a bunch of democrats took his license  because they disagree with his opinion about the election.

 

That should scare us all

[laylalex 7,300]

Whoops he did it again!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/07/rudy-giuliani-suspended-from-practicing-law-in-washington-dc

Quote

 

Giuliani, who lead Trump’s legal challenge after his election defeat, was suspended from practicing law in New York last month after a court ruled that he had made “demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public” in trying to overturn the results of the 2020 elections in favor of Trump.

The District of Columbia court of appeals issued the order on Wednesday, citing the suspension of Giuliani’s New York law license. In June, the New York court found he had lied in arguing that the election was stolen. Giuliani’s license will be revoked while disciplinary action over his practices is considered.

 

 

[moxy 1,051]

On 7/2/2021 at 9:46 AM, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

so basically a bunch of democrats took his license  because they disagree with his opinion about the election.

 

That should scare us all

Which Democrats took his law license? Or are we just saying that anything bad that happens to Republicans is just Democrats havin' a shindig now? I got a speeding ticket in Florida once. I guess a bunch of Republicans decided they disagree with the way I drive.

 

As long as you're not speaking in a professional capacity, you can express an opinion about the election and not lose your law license.

 

Quote

In June, the New York court found he had lied in arguing that the election was stolen

 

You cannot, in your professional capacity as an attorney, lie about the election being stolen and not expect to lose your law license. There's actually laws against that sort of thing. It's kind of a cornerstone of our legal system. The not-lying thing I mean.

 

Summoning @elmcitymaven to fact check me.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

14 minutes ago, moxy said:

Which Democrats took his law license? Or are we just saying that anything bad that happens to Republicans is just Democrats havin' a shindig now? I got a speeding ticket in Florida once. I guess a bunch of Republicans decided they disagree with the way I drive.

 

As long as you're not speaking in a professional capacity, you can express an opinion about the election and not lose your law license.

 

 

You cannot, in your professional capacity as an attorney, lie about the election being stolen and not expect to lose your law license. There's actually laws against that sort of thing. It's kind of a cornerstone of our legal system. The not-lying thing I mean.

 

Summoning @elmcitymaven to fact check me.

As most good law stories begin: It depends. (Hate me/don't hate me.)

 

So most states (I think California may be the only one left with its own funky rules) have adopted the ABA model rules of professional conduct. There are two rules at issue here (at least) that open Giuliani up to exposure. First, Giuliani owes a duty of candor to the tribunal (ABA MR 3.3) which can summed up as: DON'T LIE TO THE COURT. Don't lie about facts, don't lie about the law, don't be cute about either. If you say something you think is true and you then find out it's false, you must correct yourself. If your witness says something you know to be untrue, you have a duty (which can conflict with your duty to your client) to take remedial measures. That could mean getting your witness to walk it back. If it's your client and you can't get him to walk it back, you may have to withdraw as counsel.

 

Another one: ABA MR 4.1, which is about truthfulness in statements to others (i.e., everyone but the court). This applies only in the course of representation of a client (i.e., if a lawyer lies to her boyfriend that she totally loves those socks that he spent $$$$$$$ on that came from Japan but which she thinks looks like a dog threw up on them, it does not apply). Summary: DO NOT LIE ABOUT MATERIAL FACTS AND LAW TO OTHERS. The operative term there is "material." So if, for example, Giuliani knew Trump ate eggs for breakfast on a given day, and said, "Donald Trump ate his Wheaties, the Breakfast of Champions" and that had no bearing on whatever Giuliani is representing Trump in, it doesn't matter. It has to be material.

 

So where does that get us? Well, lying to the court is a big no-no. That -- along with ripping off your clients -- will get you suspended and/or disbarred. Often times, the violations are not so severe that they end in losing one's license temporarily or permanently. There's a lot of leeway given to lawyers to reform before the executioner's song is heard. There's essentially lawyer rehab -- you get a time out of a month or two and you have to take a class on professional responsibility, maybe resit the MPRE, or you get a letter from the court that goes on your permanent record saying you were very very bad and the public can read that letter. Or maybe not! Sometimes it's private discipline (not as kinky as it sounds). If Giuliani is getting the terminal smackdown for lying to the court, that is a very, very big deal. State bars don't like to go there unless the misrepresentation is so big, not kicking someone out would send a very bad message to other attorneys and to the public. 

 

Lying to the public is a big one where the lies make the whole profession look awful. We're talking big lies, lies that are so bad that you wonder what the endgame is to all of this. I think that's happened here. Giuliani is not a moron. He's aware that what he's saying is untrue to the public about the conduct of the election and he's doing it anyway. 

 

This all needs to be differentiated from opinions stated to the public. As you say, opinionate away! But when you say "this is a fact" or "this is the law" and you know it's not the case, discipline is appropriate and necessary. State bars are deeply small-c conservative institutions that hate to do anything to one of their own. When I see on VJ, "Report that attorney to the state bar, they'll take care of him!" I think LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. And LOL. They don't care very much, unless there's some swindling involved, or the attorney makes the bar look awful. It's essentially a guild, and they take care of their own.

 

So in sum: yes and no, lying in some places is fine and not in others, and you gotta be a real crook to get disbarred.

[TBoneTX 46,111]

44 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

you gotta be a real crook

Translation:  A Tortfeasor!  Quit feasin' them torts, then get re-barred!

[moxy 1,051]

🦗🦗🦗

 

Thanks for the ruling @elmcitymaven! Seems pretty clear there are no conspiracies here, just a terrible, terrible lawyer who should have known better.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

Lost his license in DC as well.

 

Perhaps those who support him should empty their wallets in hopes that a Kracken can be released and they can OWN those LIBS and KILLARY and HUNTER BIDEN and restore Rudy to Four Seasons Landscaping Glory