Bible-A Closer Look!

[Cassie 8]

Why would anyone want to leave?

Jackie

Exactly!!!!!!!!!

If the punishment is death, who would? Good point

The bible tells of this same nonsense, Gupt, but just like most Christians, most muslims are familiar with the concepts of historical context and allegory.

The bible says a thief should be sold into slavery if he cannot repay what he has stolen. Why aren't we afraid of Christianity? Because everyone knows the idea is preposterous.

In Christianity, denying Jesus is damnation and hellfire, and this is different than death?

Where in the New Testament are these quotes?

No, sweet Jen, I only look for ignorant, retarded, misinformed, ill-conceived posts to respond to. It really isn't my fault that they often end up being yours.

It seems like someone who professes to be faithful and devout shouldn't be going around calling other people (or their words) "retarded," as that smacks of intolerance and judgment. Or is it ok to be judgmental and intolerant?

I wasn't talking about the New Testament. And I'm not devout, I'm atheist. We're allowed to say retarded in my religion.

well, I for one wish you would cease and desist using this particular word. And don't think I am picking on you, I mean that for everyone here on VJ who persists in using it, you just happened to use it three times in this thread alone.

[Henia 11]

And little side that some-how I was able to add...hmmm I But all you unbelievers out there, watch out there may be a hidden Muslim in you yet! LOLOL! Cos if we take away our own ignorance and prejudices, and actually look what the word Islam and Muslims means...then we will see anything who submits to its Creator is a Muslim. The word Islam comes from the Arabic root slm meaning "to submit"; surrender of one’s will i.e. losing oneself for the sake of God and surrendering one’s own pleasure for the pleasure of God.

"Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian, but he was an upright (man), a Muslim; and he was not one of the Polytheists." Quran Surat 3:67

Also to add to Peezy's comment about "murtid" (apostate from Islam).. I have known several people to leave Islam become aethists or Christians. And none, so from either from their families or goverment have recieved any punishments. True, the family did try to convince them that should not forsake Islam... but nothing beyond that. I am sorry but this is 2007, not 1807 or 1607. I think many people watch too much TV and get misinformation from bias media casts. Islam does not allow for punishment or death of innocent people. That is left up to the God in the day of Judgment.

But it might be important to note that, Islam always deals with everyone in Justice and Equity. Oppression of any person, regardless of their religious belief is totally forbidded in the Islamic State on all levels.

Islam means "willing submission to the Will of God in peaceful obedience", and cannot be forced upon anyone, nor can anyone be converted to Islam or stay in Islam against their will. But as we all know humans are not prefect and sometimes do take things into their own hands. But that does not mean is condoned by Islam or most of its followers. And that includes many goverments. Sure off the top of my head, I do know several goverments who would condemn a human for iritdad. Mauritanian, Sudan, KSA come to mind. But clearly those state have more extremer views on religion.

[Henia 11]

LuckyStrike: I see no difference in a Muslim man having children that automatically "become" Muslim then a Christian man having Christian children or a Jewish mother having children who then are Jews. One would assume that the children would be taught the religion of its parents, no?

[monnik 0]

Also, for some reason I couldn't see the post. It goes into some kind of minimal mode in that forum.

I couldn't open it either. I'm lost. I don't even know what the original post was about. Could someone summarize for me? I saw the removal of copyrighted material, but I was hoping someone could clue me in.

[doodlebug 3]

Also, for some reason I couldn't see the post. It goes into some kind of minimal mode in that forum.

I couldn't open it either. I'm lost. I don't even know what the original post was about. Could someone summarize for me? I saw the removal of copyrighted material, but I was hoping someone could clue me in.

That's what my original post was.......just trying to figure out what the OP was trying to do 'cause it didn't make sense just from looking at it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Nothing going on in politics so we sling some mud around religion again, eh? Sweet.

Newsflash: They arrested Al Gore's son speeding down the highway in his drug loaded Prius. Any takers?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why would anyone want to leave?

Jackie

Why would that matter?

[Caladan 19]

peezey's right; I have a few friends who are secular Muslims. No hijab, observe Ramadan, have boyfriends and girlfriends, consider themselves more or less culturally Muslim. There's no enforcement mechanism of scimitar-wielding men ensuring people don't leave, marry Christian girls, or stop practicing.

In some countries, the local culture makes it such that converting from Islam is the sort of thing your dad would be allowed to kill you for. The places where there are honor killings for girls it doesn't much matter whether she's Muslim, Hindu, or Christian. And some countries are run by religious lunatics.

But if I understand it right, forced conversion or killing converts is about as intrinsic to Islam as the idea of droit du seigneur is to Christianity, or the divine right of kings. Does it mean all the religions are the same? Hardly. But there just isn't a crack Islamic enforcement squad making sure people say shahada.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

yes, i know - which brings me back to my point - how is it ignorant? that was the comment made.

what i think lucky meant, (correct me if i'm wrong) is that she assumed our children would be muslim because my fiance happens to be muslim. she just said it to be rude anyway. i find that quite ignorant myself actually!

Yeah. peezey was calling abdounjen ignorant so I'd thought I give her a taste of her own medicine. I like how people beat up on me but not her. So typical.

[Caladan 19]

My Catholic cousin married a Jewish boy. Both religions call for matrilineal inheritance of the religion. They do what any other couple does. One of the religions gets ignored. There are no squads of priests that will forcibly baptize my cousin's baby should she choose not to, and there are no squads of rabbis performing rogue circumcisions.

So if a Catholic, say, married a Muslim, I guess the couple'd have to make that decision on their own. No biggie in a free country. Probably a big deal in a non-free country, but for reasons not really having to do with religion.

[doodlebug 3]

My Catholic cousin married a Jewish boy. Both religions call for matrilineal inheritance of the religion. They do what any other couple does. One of the religions gets ignored. There are no squads of priests that will forcibly baptize my cousin's baby should she choose not to, and there are no squads of rabbis performing rogue circumcisions.

So if a Catholic, say, married a Muslim, I guess the couple'd have to make that decision on their own. No biggie in a free country. Probably a big deal in a non-free country, but for reasons not really having to do with religion.

I was told that I could not get married to a muslim in the Catholic church, when I was Catholic.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Why would anyone want to leave?

Jackie

Why would that matter?

That's what Jim Jones said.

[Caladan 19]

My Catholic cousin married a Jewish boy. Both religions call for matrilineal inheritance of the religion. They do what any other couple does. One of the religions gets ignored. There are no squads of priests that will forcibly baptize my cousin's baby should she choose not to, and there are no squads of rabbis performing rogue circumcisions.

So if a Catholic, say, married a Muslim, I guess the couple'd have to make that decision on their own. No biggie in a free country. Probably a big deal in a non-free country, but for reasons not really having to do with religion.

I was told that I could not get married to a muslim in the Catholic church, when I was Catholic.

It depends on the diocese, but generally, a Catholic can get married to a non-Christian, it just means extra paperwork on the part of the priest.

[Henia 11]

Monik and Doodle: It was copy-paste article written by a Christian preacher Bapitst I think. Or maybe it was Mormon not sure. Basically trying to show how Muslims are similar to Christians and we all should convert. The article had nothing to do with the title. Was not a closer look at the Bible, but invitation for MENA members to convert to Christianity or start a flaming war.

ET: You made me laugh my ### off thanks!

Caladon: No one, I think here can say there is not extreme fundamentalism in Islam or that there have not been forced conversions. Buuut where that did happen clearly were in areas where religion (Islam) was used with force against people who unforunately with lack of knowledge/education did not know any better. Or were tortured by these ruling parties, not for the sake of Islam but their own goals.

Again, I see no difference in the extreme fundamentalism in let's say, Ku Klux Klan, Army of God, National Liberation Front of Tripura, Uganda Peoples' Democratic Christian Army, Sons of Freedom, Christian terrorism centered on anti-abortion, Communist terrorist like the Tamil Tigers, Red Army Fraction, the fundamentalist Mormons who prey on young girls and blood atonement, Jewish fundamentalist ie: the Israeli Settelment leaders, Militant atheists and revolunaries. Hell, even the Dalia Lama has agreed that there are extremist in Buddism. Unforunately the fact still remains Muslims get the most media coverage and Muslims live areas where cos of poverty entering into these groups would sound appealing (ie: promises of wealth, power and respect).

And about your last comment. Sure, when one religion I guess could be ignored. But really does not even have to be like that. The child could grow up knowing both, if the parents choose that. But what I was saying before is, that within Islam the religion is passed from the father not the mother. Traditionally. But each couple does, themselves that is another story. I know for sure many non-religious Muslims would have no problem having their non-Muslim wives introduce other religions to the children. But the more religious would. To each their own.

[Caladan 19]

Exactly, Henia.