Sponsorship (merged topics)

[Villanelle 4,122]

The attny is not giving him accurate information and/or is doing a poor job. @Mike E if it possible try to review the actual documents from the initial filing as well as the RFE and the response. The specifics will matter. If the attny did not fill out the 864 properly in the initial submission thats reason #1 to ask for a refund of any fees they collected from him as well as terminating their services. The 864 should not be a difficult form for an attny to fill out and since he had issues previously with filings one would think the attny would know this and be extra careful to do it properly. 

 

It seems like maybe he filled out the 864 showing 17k in income? Its a bit confusing because he posted 

Quote

only made 14700 due to pandemic i called and wrote letter explained why so low due to pandemic only half yr work sbowing i even called and they said the put a note on my file

Calling and putting notes is not a solution nor would have any impact, so we can just strike that bit of having any relevance. But the pandemic doesnt make the year shorter. So either he was expected to earn double but had less work due to the pandemic or the pandemic is irrelevant and he reported half a years work as his entire years work incorrectly. It cant be both. 

 

People can get confused with the topic of what is current income. @pushbrk has made tons of posts about this topic you can pull up in search for reference. Your 'current income' is what you are presently earning (even if you havent earned it yet). So if you are paid weekly you multiply it by 52. Paid monthly multiply by 12.  Using simple numbers if I am paid 1000/month my current income is 12k/yr. In Jan I have only been paid 1k. My current yearly income is still 12k. In June I would have banked 6k. My current yearly income is still 12k. Some people get confused and think well I am filing in June and my income so far is only 6k so I should put down 6k. Wrong. The attny should not be making such miscalculations as they should be familiar with the 864. 

 

Its also important to note that the 864 is approved with the Officers discretion. You absolutely need to show enough current income to qualify as current income above the guidelines (or assets) are required. If you dont have enough current income (or assets) you will be denied no exceptions. Your past earning history does not matter if your current income is not enough. This scenario tends to happen to those who have relocated overseas so they cant use their foreign income. Those individuals may be able to show they have consistently earned 60k/yr prior to relocating and are currently earning 60k overseas but because their current income is 0 for the 864 as foreign income doesnt count, they dont qualify. They need to reestablish themselves back in the US and secure a job with income that qualifies or find a sponsor. 

 

This is not the case for the OP. It seems his past earning history is low. So he needs to show current income at the guidelines just like everyone else does. They will then look at his earnings history and determine if his income he is showing as current is stable or not. The best indicator of the future is to look at the past. So yes, someone can show current income but because of their past earnings history and other factors still be told they need a sponsor as its not enough. 

 

It appears though that he was technically denied because he did not respond to the RFE correctly. Remember the 864 is reviewed and RFEs generated using computer system logic. It looks for the numbers you enter on it to match the numbers on the supporting documents. They expect them to match and if they dont you get an RFE. If you enter your current income as 12k/yr they expect to see paystubs that will multiply out to such. You also need to enter specific numbers from your current tax return (and include said return) and optionally can include your last 3 years of returns to demonstrate stability. 

 

The RFE always has default wording when you dont appear to qualify to send a sponsor. This is because they dont dig into exactly why you dont qualify (which would be helpful to resolving it) but its just a generic you dont qualify listing out the deficiencies in your submission and instructing you to submit a sponsor. Sometimes even when you correct the deficiencies you still need a sponsor. Sometimes the corrections make the sponsor no longer needed. The deficiencies still need to be corrected. It can be helpful to think of it like a flow chart. The IRS uses a similar system for reference. Each step has a yes or no that directs you to the next. Any time you hit a 'no' it ends with 'you do not qualify send a sponsor' + whatever it was that directed you to the no. So current income entered on form in an amount over the guidelines? Yes---> proof? no----> you do not qualify. Send proof of income. Send a sponsor. Current tax return included? no --->you dont qualify. Send tax return. Send a sponsor. 

 

So by correcting the deficiency that caused the no the request for the sponsor becomes N/A. The problem is because of the setup  it becomes impossible to know if correcting the deficiency will in fact remove the need for a sponsor. So you have to try to determine that on your own. Again it can be that he doesnt qualify even though he does have enough current income because they dont consider it stable enough.  The attny may be correct that fixing the deficiencies will still cause a sponsor to be needed. Which just brings us back to WHY would the attny send an incomplete 864?? If they sent it properly and the RFE was still issued then yes, they were not satisfied with what you showed and a sponsor is needed. Because it wasnt sent properly its unknown why exactly it was RFEd .And then the RFE was also not responded to properly doubling the issue. He was technically denied for failure to respond the RFE not because his income was determined to not be enough or not be stable. They didnt get that far. They denied him for missing documents they needed to review his 864.

 

Its also worth noting that previously the process was set up in a way where people could file their AOS packages, obtain the EAD, and then start working so when the RFE came about not having enough income they could respond and include the immigrants income from the EAD. It was a 'textbook' holding a place in line strategy that many people took advantage of. USCIS has since implemented various policies to prevent this. Now when you submit your package the 864 is reviewed prior to issuing the EAD. So if you dont have enough income on it (at face value) you get the RFE and the EAD processing is put on hold because the EAD is a benefit of having a pending 485. The 485 requires the 864 so until you submit the correct 864 your 485 is not valid/pending so to speak, its on pause. It must be unpaused to move forward with the EAD. Hope that makes sense.

 

So because they did get the EAD the most likely scenario is the 864 was fine in regards to income qualifying and the RFE was sent because the 864 was originally submitted prior to the tax year flipping to 2020. The tax deadline was May 17 2021. Prior to that date the 'last years current filing' was your 2019 filing. After the deadline the current tax years returns are the 2020 ones. Perhaps he didnt have his 2020 filing when he sent in the 864 as it was not due yet. Since it is due now they want it. Maybe he did have it and just didnt include it? I dont know. Doesnt matter, doesnt change anything. In order to presently process his 864 they need current tax return which is 2020. 

 

The RFE he got asked for the tax return, W2, +joint sponsor. You say the response stated they only got the w2. So what was actually sent? If he thinks he sent the tax return and they say no he sent the wrong thing. He might have sent an incomplete tax return. Incomplete = no tax return. If he failed to send all the supporting documents with his return again = no tax return. Ideally he should send his 2020 transcripts but they may not be available yet. He needs to make sure he sends the complete tax return.  I really dont understand how an RFE response error like this can occur when an attny is involved. The attny should have prepared the response. What exactly is the attny being paid for if not that? 

 

I understand many users here are taking the position that the motion would be denied because thats what policy states should happen, but I am telling you in practice thats not what happens. If his motion is denied it would most likely be because he didnt fill out the 290b correctly or once again failed to include the proper documents with it. If he does decide to file the motion someone needs to check it all over for accuracy. Also because it seems they can not find a sponsor the best path is for them to attempt to file the motion and include the immigrants income from the EAD on it because if it is an issue of not having enough income rather then missing tax papers (which I dont think it is) but if if its the additional income from the EAD will help. 

 

If this was me, I would terminate services with said attny and get some if not all the fees I paid returned and then use the funds to file the 290b. Worst thing that happens is the motion is denied. I dont think it will be if its filled out properly and correct documents included. If you search the forums for 290b stuff you will see people are frequently approved even though policy dictates the opposite. 

[Villanelle 4,122]

I also think the attny was saying he should tell people the 864 is only for 3 yrs as if they remain married that is when he can apply for citizenship which once approved would end the 864. The attny may also be erring on the side of caution in saying he needs a sponsor for the motion because if he files w/o one and is denied- he will blame the attny. 

[Aspire5532 5]

Thanks again so yes i didnt gave an attorney at the time of rfe. So yes i sent the evidence with just a couple w2 from 2019, which i had just filed taxes also plus it was done in a hurry and no attorney. Its hard to keep your focus when u have a new wife freaking out also. 

[Mike E 11,739]

22 hours ago, Villanelle said:

The attny is not giving him accurate information and/or is doing a poor job. @Mike E if it possible try to review the actual documents from the initial filing as well

I will  try to get a copy of the I-864

 

22 hours ago, Villanelle said:

 the RFE and the response.

 

I have at least part of  RFE.  The RFE asks fir the complete tax return with all supporting docs (w-2 etc), the most recent tax tax transcript, and new I-864 from the petitioner.  
 

The denial claims the RFE asked for a complete tax return,  the supporting documents, and an I-864 from a joint sponsor.  
 

The RFE also says the petitioner’s response to the RFE was to send 2020 W-2. 

 

22 hours ago, Villanelle said:

The specifics will matter. If the attny did not fill out the 864 properly in the initial submission

No attorney was used for the I-485 package.  An attorney was sought because the couple concluded it needed professional help.  
 

I will read the  rest of your detailed post and respond where appropriate. Thanks so much for the time you are putting into this. 

 

[Mike E 11,739]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:01 AM, Aspire5532 said:

Ok so this is what im getting from all this is EITHER get a JOINT SPONSOR or start all OVER

 

That’s my conclusion.  
 

The rest of stuff you wrote about different nationalities being treated differently is not accurate in your case and not relevant though.  USCIS is a bureaucracy and processes documents according to rules.  The RFE you got asked for a new I-864.  
 

I think you are pointing out that this process is needlessly complicated. I agree.  But that is what we all have to face.  

[Aspire5532 5]

Well my hopes for a co sponsor is getting very dim. I only have till 18th to figure this out.  SUGGESTIONS PLEASE THANKS

[Villanelle 4,122]

1 hour ago, Aspire5532 said:

Well my hopes for a co sponsor is getting very dim. I only have till 18th to figure this out.  SUGGESTIONS PLEASE THANKS

There's only 2 options. You can file a new package from scratch. Current EAD will be void. Will have to wait for a new one. -or- file the appeal. EAD will go back to active and remain active if appeal is granted, if appeal denied EAD will be void at that point and a new package will need to be sent. 

 

Does this immigrant currently work with the EAD? If so include that income with a new 864 as part of the appeal filing. 

 

Because you seem unlikely to find a sponsor the appeal will allow you to include the immigrants income, you won't be able to do such with a new filing as the EAD will be void.

 

Again it seems you were denied for not providing current taxes and not because your income was too low and the appeal will most likely be approved.  If that was not the case and you were denied for the income then the additional income from the EAD should help to overcome the denial.  

 

Worst case is the appeal is denied. You should at least try it because 1- only option to include EAD income, 2- costs less than new filing 3- positive income will continue to come in from EAD work offsetting the cost of the appeal 4- you won't lose your place in line as a new filing would. 

 

You just need to make sure you fill out the appeal properly.  It's a bit more complicated/confusing than the AOS package which you struggled with so please make sure it's done properly and you include all the documents needed. 

[Aspire5532 5]

Thanks

[Mike E 11,739]

9 hours ago, Villanelle said:

Does this immigrant currently work with the EAD? If so include that income with a new 864 as part of the appeal filing. 

 

@Aspire5532 IOW your wife should get a job ASAP 

 

 

9 hours ago, Villanelle said:

Again it seems you were denied for not providing current taxes and not because your income was too low and the appeal will most likely be approved.  If that was not the case and you were denied for the income then the additional income from the EAD should help to overcome the denial.  

Hi Villanelle, I appreciate your calm logic.  In the your above sentence did you mean:

 

“Again it seems you were denied for not providing current income 

 

@Aspire5532

I again ask you to send me the I-864 you used so that we can get more exact advice from @Villanelle, @Demise, and others.  
 

 

 

 

 

[Mike E 11,739]

On 6/6/2021 at 7:05 AM, Villanelle said:

The attny

 

...

 

If you search the forums for 290b stuff you will see people are frequently approved even though policy dictates the opposite. 

Just reread the entire thing closely and:

 

1. my goodness this post was a tour de force of detail and yet useful information and advice  backed with reason.  
 

2. that your would put (and continue to put) such effort to help a stranger says great things about your character.  

[Villanelle 4,122]

54 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Hi Villanelle, I appreciate your calm logic.  In the your above sentence did you mean:

 

“Again it seems you were denied for not providing current income 

 

 

 

Quote

In the RFE he was asked to send his complete 2020 tax return and w2 and to send an I-864 for a joint sponsor.  In the denial letter from uscis, uscis says that he sent just the w2.  

If the RFE only asked for tax returns and then went on about send a sponsor as you dont qualify- then you can assume the income was sufficient and the issue was not having current years tax returns only. The denial was based on the fact that he did not send 2020 taxes as the response to the RFE as they seemingly had no issue with his current income or proof of such, if they did they would have said so and asked for such when they asked for his current taxes.

 

 

[Aspire5532 5]

So we have decided with professional advice from lawyer to not file motion to reopen which would more likely get denied again, we will save 675.00 from not filing and then get a letter to apper in court. At this time which looks like at least 3 month wait and by that time i will have the opportunity to present my case and positive aspects to the judge. I believe our case will be approved. So anyone else went through this same scenario please give information on this topic thanks Vjers  

[Boiler 45,536]

Not sure I have seen such a case on here, presumably your Lawyer mentioned the 3 months, surprised your case would be scheduled so quickly.

[Ontarkie 14,228]

~~Related thread merged. Please stop starting a new thread for updates or related questions. It is considered spamming and will put your account at risk.~~

[Aspire5532 5]

Spamming dont have time fot that, nobody mentioned 3 months i just niw it will be longer than that