Chaos in Pakistani capital city as 'militants' holed up inside a Mosque clash with Government forces - 10 dead, 150+ injured

[Saddle Bronc 124]

...clerics have challenged the government by trying to impose a Taliban-style version of Islamic law in the capital.

Don't they know that type of thinking is so 'yesterday'?

Amongst Southeast Asian Muslims and most non-Muslims (about 90% are descended from voluntary converts), you would be correct; unfortunately, you're dealing with West Asian/Middle Eastern Muslims who are 99% descended from forced converts.

It makes a tremendous difference in their mentality, as was even shown in 1971.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

"The chickens have come home to roost". The process was started by the dictator Zia in the 1980's who was blinded by hate for India, raised the monster of islamic terrorism in the sub-continent. Pakistan planned and hoped to see whats happening today in Islamabad to happen in New Delhi. Well, Time has taken its revenge on Pakistan for its philosophy of hate ...

Partly correct; Zia did have a blind hatred for India and an idea of "avenging" the defeat given to Pakistan by India*** in Bangladesh.

The blind hatred for India started when the military took over officially under Ayub Khan--as almost all of Pakistan's generals were of a loose faction which put hatred of India as their raison-d'etre, rather than love of Pakistan (the only general who could possibly have been of the other faction was Iskander Mirza--who was originally from Murshidabad).

***It is an accepted tenet amongst many Banglas that Bangladesh would have become independent anyway by the end of 1973, even had India not entered in November/December 1971 to prepone it--as the whole situation was created by Pakistan military (admin)'s stupid mishandling of it (which, as a whole, they still refuse to acknowledge).

[jundp 191]

...clerics have challenged the government by trying to impose a Taliban-style version of Islamic law in the capital.

Don't they know that type of thinking is so 'yesterday'?

Amongst Southeast Asian Muslims and most non-Muslims (about 90% are descended from voluntary converts), you would be correct; unfortunately, you're dealing with West Asian/Middle Eastern Muslims who are 99% descended from forced converts.

It makes a tremendous difference in their mentality, as was even shown in 1971.

I'm sorry to be really uneducated in this, but will you explain this to me? I mean, I can deduce the definition of voluntary/forced, but I was wondering if you could maybe give me a little more background in this?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Burn it down!

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Amongst Southeast Asian Muslims and most non-Muslims (about 90% are descended from voluntary converts), you would be correct; unfortunately, you're dealing with West Asian/Middle Eastern Muslims who are 99% descended from forced converts.

It makes a tremendous difference in their mentality, as was even shown in 1971.

I'm sorry to be really uneducated in this, but will you explain this to me? I mean, I can deduce the definition of voluntary/forced, but I was wondering if you could maybe give me a little more background in this?

Basically, the descendants of forced converts to Islam tend to have a higher propensity towards extremism. It can be seen just using the examples of Pakistan (part of South Asia, but closer to West Asia) and Bangladesh (closer to Southeast Asia). Almost no support for Taliban-style government among the 145 million Muslim Banglas (includes 20 million illegal immigrants in India) vs. heavy support in NWFP and Baluchistan as well as now in Punjab (where Islamabad is).

FYI, in 1971 Pakistan actually circulated a propaganda sheet to its Punjabi and mohajir soldiers and bihari (aka "East mohajir") thug-assistants in Bangladesh that the Bengali Muslims were cowards (due to the voluntary-convert ancestry) while the Punjabi and mohajir were heroes (due to forced-convert ancestry)--which is rebutted easily throughout history (Bengal was usually the first place that rebellions against various Indian--and later British as well--empires would start).

[Saddle Bronc 124]

They finally decided to breach it.\

But the timing is quite obvious

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

They finally decided to breach it.\

But the timing is quite obvious

good

[mawilson 2,133]

Business as usual.

Actually, it is not. This is a direct strike by Islamists at the Pakistani political establishment in the heart of the establishment itself. In pop culture terms, this is a strike at the Death Star. This isn't business as usual at all. So far the response from the Pakistani political establishment has been timid, and given their capacity for ruthlesness against political opponents, I can't help but wonder why.

Perhaps they don't want to go against the popular sentiment which is to support the Islamists?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Business as usual.

Actually, it is not. This is a direct strike by Islamists at the Pakistani political establishment in the heart of the establishment itself. In pop culture terms, this is a strike at the Death Star. This isn't business as usual at all. So far the response from the Pakistani political establishment has been timid, and given their capacity for ruthlesness against political opponents, I can't help but wonder why.

Perhaps they don't want to go against the popular sentiment which is to support the Islamists?

Duplicate (though shorter stating) idea as post #15.

[mawilson 2,133]

Business as usual.

Actually, it is not. This is a direct strike by Islamists at the Pakistani political establishment in the heart of the establishment itself. In pop culture terms, this is a strike at the Death Star. This isn't business as usual at all. So far the response from the Pakistani political establishment has been timid, and given their capacity for ruthlesness against political opponents, I can't help but wonder why.

Perhaps they don't want to go against the popular sentiment which is to support the Islamists?

Duplicate (though shorter stating) idea as post #15.

Sorry CherryX -- you lost me at the original 10-hour "Star Wars" miniseries "V"

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Business as usual.

Actually, it is not. This is a direct strike by Islamists at the Pakistani political establishment in the heart of the establishment itself. In pop culture terms, this is a strike at the Death Star. This isn't business as usual at all. So far the response from the Pakistani political establishment has been timid, and given their capacity for ruthlesness against political opponents, I can't help but wonder why.

Perhaps they don't want to go against the popular sentiment which is to support the Islamists?

Duplicate (though shorter stating) idea as post #15.

Sorry CherryX -- you lost me at the original 10-hour "Star Wars" miniseries "V"

You missed it alright. "V" was a miniseries on NBC with an invasion of earth (in roughly then-current time) by benevolent-appearing (but not actually benevolent) reptilian aliens who had put on human disguise, and the human (the mini focussed mainly on a group in LA) resistance to them.

Elements include a "fifth column" within the aliens sympathetic to the earthlings, and also much intrigue amongst the "loyal" aliens (the last one you can see in the current Red Mosque situation).

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Pakistan rejects radical cleric's surrender terms

A cleric holed up in a Pakistani mosque said on Friday he and hundreds of followers were willing to surrender, but set conditions authorities rejected after three days of violence in which 19 people have died.

The government said the attempt to attach demands, including safe passage, was unacceptable and insisted cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi release women and children being held as human shields.

...

Hundreds of troops and police are surrounding the fortified mosque in a leafy central Islamabad neighborhood.

...

Ghazi, speaking in telephone interviews from the mosque, said he wanted safe passage for himself and his followers.

...

But the government rejected any conditions and said the only option was surrender.

...

Many Pakistanis welcomed the action against the clerics and their hardline students, whose behavior had been reminiscent of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070705/ts_nm/pakistan_mosque_dc