Report: Trump telling supporters he expects to be reinstated

[moxy 1,051]

57 minutes ago, moxy said:

Some actually were armed. Federal court records indicate that at least 36 people had a weapon of some sort. Some capitol hill officers were attacked with fire extinguishers and flag poles used as spears. No businesses were destroyed, but the capitol building suffered $30 million in damages.

Forgot to mention Eric Munchel, the insurrectionist kitted out in faux military gear, including zip tie hand cuffs, and the gallows set up on the lawn. Nobody can say for sure of course, but had any member of congress, Republican or Democrat, actually fallen to these criminals, I think it's a pretty good bet their life would have been in a lot of danger. Especially Mike Pence, as insurrectionists chanted "hang Mike Pence" inside and outside the capitol building.

[yuna628 9,671]

1 hour ago, moxy said:

How many people would have to have been killed for the "except" to actually matter?

 

Actually five people died during the capitol insurrection. Brian Sicknick, a Capitol police officer. Ashli Babbit, an insurrectionist. Kevin Greeson, a would-be insurrectionist. Rosanne Boyland, an insurrectionist. Benjamin Philips, an insurrectionist.

 

Despite most of these people being insurrectionists, I don't dismiss their deaths so easily. Whatever their politics, their deaths matter to me, and they should matter to all of us. Trump supporters dismissing the death of a capitol police officer so easily tells me that respecting law enforcement is just another Republican value that's gone by the wayside, except for political expediency.

 

 

Where are you getting this? Five people died, I just named them. Some actually were armed. Federal court records indicate that at least 36 people had a weapon of some sort. Some capitol hill officers were attacked with fire extinguishers and flag poles used as spears. No businesses were destroyed, but the capitol building suffered $30 million in damages.

I have a hard time caring about the deaths of terrorists. I know that might make me seem cold-hearted, but I tend to take treasonous insurrection seriously. There tends to be a narrative that these people were led astray or hoodwinked or that it's not their fault, and I feel uncomfortable about that notion - rather I think people need to take responsibility for their actions. A great many of them still being held in jail (or if you review their case records) are still belligerent and proud of what they did, some are clearly mentally ill, and still others have prior criminal history. They knew what they were doing, and they knew the risks - they just genuinely believed they'd be rewarded for their actions. 

[moxy 1,051]

3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I have a hard time caring about the deaths of terrorists. I know that might make me seem cold-hearted, but I tend to take treasonous insurrection seriously. There tends to be a narrative that these people were led astray or hoodwinked or that it's not their fault, and I feel uncomfortable about that notion - rather I think people need to take responsibility for their actions. A great many of them still being held in jail (or if you review their case records) are still belligerent and proud of what they did, some are clearly mentally ill, and still others have prior criminal history. They knew what they were doing, and they knew the risks - they just genuinely believed they'd be rewarded for their actions. 

I can't fault you for that. My first reactions were not as kind either. But these were brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, relatives, and friends of somebody. I guess my sympathies extend mostly to those people. I put the lion's share of the blame on the insurgent in chief. I have very little hope he'll ever be held accountable, but I do hope he spends the rest of his life with the possibility hanging over his head. (there are rumors that he is indeed very worried, and I hope those rumors are true)

[Dashinka 24,489]

19 hours ago, moxy said:

Again, you may not like AOC's (or anyone else in "the squad's") politics, and that's fair game. But they're not fomenting insurrection or pushing conspiracy theories like some in the GOP are. This is what I'm talking about.

 

I think you missed my point. I'm not defending the Democratic party. I'm saying that the GOP, the party of conservative values, has abandoned many of their core beliefs. The GOP has never done that, to the extent they have over the last 5 years. And for some reason, many Republican voters are ok with that. (and again... you don't like Bernie Sanders' [who is not a Democrat btw] politics, but don't conflate that with advancing conspiracy theories and supporting insurrections)

No idea what a Bernie assassin is. But I did explain my thinking on why I believe the current incarnation of the GOP is a threat to democracy.

The threat to this country is the complete lack of concern from anyone in Washington of the run-away spending.  This will do way more for destroying this country than anything else.  A not two distant 2nd is the divide and conquer mentality that seems to be coming more from the Left/Dems/MSM, but I am sure there are actors in the GOP that do the same thing.

16 hours ago, moxy said:

I'm happy there are Republicans holding true to actual values. They need to hold fellow Republicans who are not holding true to actual values accountable. I'm not seeing a lot of that beyond, say, Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, and maybe a few others.

So you mention the biggest neocons currently in the GOP.

[moxy 1,051]

19 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

The threat to this country is the complete lack of concern from anyone in Washington of the run-away spending.  This will do way more for destroying this country than anything else.  A not two distant 2nd is the divide and conquer mentality that seems to be coming more from the Left/Dems/MSM, but I am sure there are actors in the GOP that do the same thing.

Spending is a problem, but not in the way it's perceived to be. The problem isn't how much we spend, it's what we spend it on. The military industrial complex gets a ridiculously large slice of our overall budget, billionaires get ridiculous tax cuts, while actual programs and policies that would make this country stronger, healthier, and more prosperous are under-funded or completely cut. I blame both parties for this, but because the Democrats are currently in power and could actually do something about it, I currently hold the Biden administration the most accountable.

 

In any case, I would say the biggest threat to this country are right-wing extremists at high levels that undermine democracy through voter suppression, refusing to accept the results of a free and fair election, push conspiracy theories to dangerous levels, and refuse to hold themselves or their party leaders accountable. And of course the voters who enable them.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

14 hours ago, moxy said:

Don't know why you need to be so salty towards me. Everyone else has been able to discuss this topic today courteously. No, of course those two people aren't the base. But they have a lot of pull and a lot of support with the base.

Sorry, I just hate it when people say that they are the base of the Republican. It really grinds my gears

[Dashinka 24,489]

7 minutes ago, moxy said:

Spending is a problem, but not in the way it's perceived to be. The problem isn't how much we spend, it's what we spend it on. The military industrial complex gets a ridiculously large slice of our overall budget, billionaires get ridiculous tax cuts, while actual programs and policies that would make this country stronger, healthier, and more prosperous are under-funded or completely cut. I blame both parties for this, but because the Democrats are currently in power and could actually do something about it, I currently hold the Biden administration the most accountable.

 

In any case, I would say the biggest threat to this country are right-wing extremists at high levels that undermine democracy through voter suppression, refusing to accept the results of a free and fair election, push conspiracy theories to dangerous levels, and refuse to hold themselves or their party leaders accountable. And of course the voters who enable them.

Yeah, we already had that discussion sometime ago.  The military spending is 50% of 25% of the total spending.  Something like 65-70% of the total spending is covered under Mandatory spending which has nothing to do with the military.

 

You don't think the extreme leftist are a threat as well?

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dashinka

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

5 hours ago, CanAm1980 said:

There were multiple deaths that day and 167 injured Capitol police. Molotov cocktails were seized. "Protestors" were armed with bear spray and used our nation's flag in an attempt to murder a police officer. Two pipe bombs were placed outside of party headquarters that would have killed or maimed dozens. 

 

 Pioneer Square in Portland is not the heart of our democracy, the Capitol building is and Trump partisans assaulted our nation. 

Notice how nobody has been hearing about those pipe bombs placed by the supposed woman. They have how many cameras in DC and nobody can ID this person? 

Multiple deaths that day? One person got trampled in the crowd, two people had heart attacks, Ashli Babbet was the only actually murdered at the Capitol. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

3 hours ago, moxy said:

How many people would have to have been killed for the "except" to actually matter?

 

Actually five people died during the capitol insurrection. Brian Sicknick, a Capitol police officer. Ashli Babbit, an insurrectionist. Kevin Greeson, a would-be insurrectionist. Rosanne Boyland, an insurrectionist. Benjamin Philips, an insurrectionist.

 

Despite most of these people being insurrectionists, I don't dismiss their deaths so easily. Whatever their politics, their deaths matter to me, and they should matter to all of us. Trump supporters dismissing the death of a capitol police officer so easily tells me that respecting law enforcement is just another Republican value that's gone by the wayside, except for political expediency.

 

Where are you getting this? Five people died, I just named them. Some actually were armed. Federal court records indicate that at least 36 people had a weapon of some sort. Some capitol hill officers were attacked with fire extinguishers and flag poles used as spears. No businesses were destroyed, but the capitol building suffered $30 million in damages.

Sicknick did not die at the Capitol he died in the hospital due to a stroke. Babbit was murdered plain and simple. 

 

They are peaceful protestors not rioters. 

[moxy 1,051]

8 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Sorry, I just hate it when people say that they are the base of the Republican. It really grinds my gears

I might not have been clear. I'm not saying these few reps are the base. I'm saying the base keeps voting for them, and people like them.

[moxy 1,051]

2 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Sicknick did not die at the Capitol he died in the hospital due to a stroke.

Dude, come on.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

Just now, moxy said:

Dude, come on.

Oh I forgot he supposedly got hit with a fire extinguisher which turned out to be false 

3 minutes ago, moxy said:

I might not have been clear. I'm not saying these few reps are the base. I'm saying the base keeps voting for them, and people like them.

Romney only won because he went pro-Trump. As for Cheney we shall see next year if she gets reelected

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

I have a hard time caring about the deaths of terrorists. I know that might make me seem cold-hearted, but I tend to take treasonous insurrection seriously. There tends to be a narrative that these people were led astray or hoodwinked or that it's not their fault, and I feel uncomfortable about that notion - rather I think people need to take responsibility for their actions. A great many of them still being held in jail (or if you review their case records) are still belligerent and proud of what they did, some are clearly mentally ill, and still others have prior criminal history. They knew what they were doing, and they knew the risks - they just genuinely believed they'd be rewarded for their actions. 

Do you feel the same way about all the BLM protestors that set up autonomous zones taking over city blocks and causing millions in damage. Also many injuries and people actually died.

[yuna628 9,671]

26 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Do you feel the same way about all the BLM protestors that set up autonomous zones taking over city blocks and causing millions in damage. Also many injuries and people actually died.

I don't know how did you feel about the people that wanted to enact a coup, take over our seat of government, kill the Vice President and other elected members of office, and caused millions of dollars in damage?

[Dashinka 24,489]

26 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I don't know how did you feel about the people that wanted to enact a coup, take over our seat of government, kill the Vice President and other elected members of office, and caused millions of dollars in damage?

Full circle it would seem.