PCS Without Command Sponsorship?

[SAK214 21]

Hello.

I'm a military spouse and a U.S. permanent resident. We're PCSing to Japan next month. Due to the medical reasons, EFMP didn't recommend me to travel overseas (mainly because of the medications I used to take in the past). Because of this, command sponsorship was denied, meaning my name is not on the order my husband received. Thankfully I still have a Japanese citizenship, and will have healthcare when I move there, so I decided to accompany him. 

 

My main concern is the USCIS might think I've abandoned my permanent resident status by going back to my home country. We've contacted USCIS military help line several times, but each time we talk to them they give us different answers. Some told me we should file I-131 (request for reentry permit) before we leave, but it expires in 2 years and we'll be in Japan for at least 3 years. It means I might have to come back to the States to file the form again or pay fines when coming back for overstaying. Some agents told us we could file it when we come back to the States, but said it's "totally up to your decision,"  which confused us even more.

 

I understand as a military spouse, I may still be allowed to reenter the country even with the expired green card, but I'm still worried that I might have issues with USCIS because of it. We've scheduled an appointment with the military base legal office to discuss about our situation next week. 

Did anybody experienced the same/similar situations? The reason why we still haven't figured this out yet is because EFMP process took so long and my husband received the official order less than a month ago. Since we don't have much time until we leave the country, any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.     

[Ed&Midori1031 330]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:32 PM, SAK214 said:

Hello.

I'm a military spouse and a U.S. permanent resident. We're PCSing to Japan next month. Due to the medical reasons, EFMP didn't recommend me to travel overseas (mainly because of the medications I used to take in the past). Because of this, command sponsorship was denied, meaning my name is not on the order my husband received. Thankfully I still have a Japanese citizenship, and will have healthcare when I move there, so I decided to accompany him. 

 

My main concern is the USCIS might think I've abandoned my permanent resident status by going back to my home country. We've contacted USCIS military help line several times, but each time we talk to them they give us different answers. Some told me we should file I-131 (request for reentry permit) before we leave, but it expires in 2 years and we'll be in Japan for at least 3 years. It means I might have to come back to the States to file the form again or pay fines when coming back for overstaying. Some agents told us we could file it when we come back to the States, but said it's "totally up to your decision,"  which confused us even more.

 

I understand as a military spouse, I may still be allowed to reenter the country even with the expired green card, but I'm still worried that I might have issues with USCIS because of it. We've scheduled an appointment with the military base legal office to discuss about our situation next week. 

Did anybody experienced the same/similar situations? The reason why we still haven't figured this out yet is because EFMP process took so long and my husband received the official order less than a month ago. Since we don't have much time until we leave the country, any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.     

Hi there, sorry that you're experiencing this.  I'm active duty Navy, and I'm wondering why your name wasn't on your husband's orders.  I have a step son in EFMP, and both him and my wife weren't denied travel to Japan because of this.  

 

So are you going to travel to Japan on your own? Pay out of pocket?  

 

I'm a little confused because normally, the military member's family is already listed on their orders when received.  And of course after that, the overseas screening process begins to determine whether or not family is eligible for overseas assignment. 

 

But to answer your question, USCIS will not look at this as abandonment due to official orders, as long as your name is on the orders.  Even if you are within your 90 day window of applying for ROC, as long as you get that extension letter you would be fine. 

[SAK214 21]

On 6/5/2021 at 3:19 PM, Ed&Midori1031 said:

Hi there, sorry that you're experiencing this.  I'm active duty Navy, and I'm wondering why your name wasn't on your husband's orders.  I have a step son in EFMP, and both him and my wife weren't denied travel to Japan because of this.  

 

So are you going to travel to Japan on your own? Pay out of pocket?  

 

I'm a little confused because normally, the military member's family is already listed on their orders when received.  And of course after that, the overseas screening process begins to determine whether or not family is eligible for overseas assignment. 

 

But to answer your question, USCIS will not look at this as abandonment due to official orders, as long as your name is on the orders.  Even if you are within your 90 day window of applying for ROC, as long as you get that extension letter you would be fine. 

Thank you so much for the reply. Basically EFMP told me "no, you can't move to Japan because of your medical conditions. Your medications are not available in Japan (even though I'm not taking them anymore)." 

 

Yes, I'm traveling to Japan on my own and all the travel expense will be out of pocket. But once I get there I'll still be able to live with my husband, and as I mentioned in the original post, I'm still a Japanese citizen and will be able to get healthcare from Japanese healthcare providers. Hopefully this won't be an issue when it's time for me to come back to the States...

[Ed&Midori1031 330]

On 6/7/2021 at 2:17 PM, SAK214 said:

Thank you so much for the reply. Basically EFMP told me "no, you can't move to Japan because of your medical conditions. Your medications are not available in Japan (even though I'm not taking them anymore)." 

 

Yes, I'm traveling to Japan on my own and all the travel expense will be out of pocket. But once I get there I'll still be able to live with my husband, and as I mentioned in the original post, I'm still a Japanese citizen and will be able to get healthcare from Japanese healthcare providers. Hopefully this won't be an issue when it's time for me to come back to the States...

Well luckily you will still go to Japan, but what a headache to have to pay out of pocket.  May I ask what part of Japan you're going to? 

 

Normally if EFMP was a serious case, they would issue orders to the military member to stay stateside instead of overseas. 

[SAK214 21]

1 minute ago, Ed&Midori1031 said:

Well luckily you will still go to Japan, but what a headache to have to pay out of pocket.  May I ask what part of Japan you're going to? 

 

Normally if EFMP was a serious case, they would issue orders to the military member to stay stateside instead of overseas. 

Yes, tickets and a hotel fee during the 14-day quarantine and all that. It sucks but it can't be helped. 

We're moving to Okinawa. 

Actually that's what happened when my husband was ordered to move to Germany last year. EFMP told us the same thing and he gave up going there because I couldn't go. But this time he's doing literally whatever it takes to get us there, because he really, really, wants to move to Japan...haha

[Ontarkie 14,218]

Not being on his orders and using health care in Japan can be an issue. 

Many countries that have universal health care require you to actually be a resident there. If Japan requires similar that alone can result in you losing your GC. You cannot be a resident in Japan while still claiming to be a US resident which is what you need to keep your GC. 

 

 

[SAK214 21]

28 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

Not being on his orders and using health care in Japan can be an issue. 

Many countries that have universal health care require you to actually be a resident there. If Japan requires similar that alone can result in you losing your GC. You cannot be a resident in Japan while still claiming to be a US resident which is what you need to keep your GC. 

 

 

Thank you for your reply. If this is true, we're in a trouble because I won't be able to get a healthcare on base. Have you heard of an actual case that somebody got into trouble because of this?

Since I'm still a Japanese citizen, I'm required to report to the Japanese embassy if my address changes. And yes I need to be a Japanese resident in order to get the benefit of their universal health care system. But when we talked to USCIS about our situations, they assured us that me living in Japan (= obtaining Japanese residency) wouldn't be any kind of a problem keeping my US permanent residency. The only problem is the duration of the reentry permit.  

Also, how could me using the Japanese healthcare be a possible issue? Because there's no way that the U.S. government will find out if I see Japanese doctors or not. Of course it's a completely different situation if it's actually illegal, but if that was the case, USCIS should've already told us so. Seems like this is something we should consult with a lawyer. 

[Ontarkie 14,218]

2 minutes ago, SAK214 said:

Thank you for your reply. If this is true, we're in a trouble because I won't be able to get a healthcare on base. Have you heard of an actual case that somebody got into trouble because of this?

Since I'm still a Japanese citizen, I'm required to report to the Japanese embassy if my address changes. And yes I need to be a Japanese resident in order to get the benefit of their universal health care system. But when we talked to USCIS about our situations, they assured us that me living in Japan (= obtaining Japanese residency) wouldn't be any kind of a problem keeping my US permanent residency. The only problem is the duration of the reentry permit.  

Also, how could me using the Japanese healthcare be a possible issue? Because there's no way that the U.S. government will find out if I see Japanese doctors or not. Of course it's a completely different situation if it's actually illegal, but if that was the case, USCIS should've already told us so. Seems like this is something we should consult with a lawyer. 

They do not call it the misinformation line for nothing. 

Here's the thing. you won't be on your husbands orders. You want to be out of the US for 3 years. You will be using benefits that are only used for residents of Japan. When tax times comes around you would have to be marked as a non resident since you would be a resident of Japan. So basically telling them you gave up your US PR.

 

 What are you going to use to show that you did not abandon your US PR? Going to be pretty hard when you register in Japan as a resident and use health care that is only for residents. Filed taxes as a non resident as you are living in Japan as a resident and not on your husbands orders.  Do not underestimate what information USCIS can get their hands on. They already know how health care and residency works in Japan, they know your health history.

 

Will they know who and what doctor you saw. Not likely, but they know your medical history and know you would need to continue treatment. 

 

Now here is what I would do.  Get a reentry permit it's good for 2 yrs and can be renewed. It will help show that your move is temporary. Pay for your health care out of pocket do not use any benefits that are for only residents. 

 

 

[SAK214 21]

6 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

They do not call it the misinformation line for nothing. 

Here's the thing. you won't be on your husbands orders. You want to be out of the US for 3 years. You will be using benefits that are only used for residents of Japan. When tax times comes around you would have to be marked as a non resident since you would be a resident of Japan. So basically telling them you gave up your US PR.

 

 What are you going to use to show that you did not abandon your US PR? Going to be pretty hard when you register in Japan as a resident and use health care that is only for residents. Filed taxes as a non resident as you are living in Japan as a resident and not on your husbands orders.  Do not underestimate what information USCIS can get their hands on. They already know how health care and residency works in Japan, they know your health history.

 

Will they know who and what doctor you saw. Not likely, but they know your medical history and know you would need to continue treatment. 

 

Now here is what I would do.  Get a reentry permit it's good for 2 yrs and can be renewed. It will help show that your move is temporary. Pay for your health care out of pocket do not use any benefits that are for only residents. 

 

 

So we might have been misinformed when they told us it wouldn't be a problem even if my name is not on my husband's order, then...

He talked to the military lawyer earlier today, and she also told us to get the permit and renew it after 2 years (she said that's what other military spouses do).

The problem is, even if I don't use any benefits offered by the Japanese government, I'm still required by law to report change of address to the Japanese embassy, which will automatically make me a Japanese resident since we'll be likely to live off-base.

After reading your comments and told my husband about what you said, we decided to consult with another immigration lawyer who deals with military immigration issues. 

Thank you so much for your help. Hopefully the lawyer can give us some solid answers unlike USCIS agents...  

[Ontarkie 14,218]

6 minutes ago, SAK214 said:

So we might have been misinformed when they told us it wouldn't be a problem even if my name is not on my husband's order, then...

He talked to the military lawyer earlier today, and she also told us to get the permit and renew it after 2 years (she said that's what other military spouses do).

The problem is, even if I don't use any benefits offered by the Japanese government, I'm still required by law to report change of address to the Japanese embassy, which will automatically make me a Japanese resident since we'll be likely to live off-base.

After reading your comments and told my husband about what you said, we decided to consult with another immigration lawyer who deals with military immigration issues. 

Thank you so much for your help. Hopefully the lawyer can give us some solid answers unlike USCIS agents...  

Yes reentry permit is a must in your situation.

If Japan requires that, then USCIS should be aware of it. Hopefully it will not be a problem. Make sure what ever ties to the US are as strong as possible. Lease, DL, what ever you can to keep it strong for the US side. 

 

It really sucks that you could not be added to his orders. Would you have to register with Japan if you were on his orders?  Trying to figure out how that part works. Because really you want to be seen as a visitor there. 

[SAK214 21]

1 hour ago, Ontarkie said:

Yes reentry permit is a must in your situation.

If Japan requires that, then USCIS should be aware of it. Hopefully it will not be a problem. Make sure what ever ties to the US are as strong as possible. Lease, DL, what ever you can to keep it strong for the US side. 

 

It really sucks that you could not be added to his orders. Would you have to register with Japan if you were on his orders?  Trying to figure out how that part works. Because really you want to be seen as a visitor there. 

I haven’t heard of any similar case like ours. Most spouses try to come to the States side from Japan, not the opposite like me...

As long as I’m a Japanese citizen, I have to report the change of address no matter what (in case they need to contact me for emergency reasons). Of course for military spouses there are exceptions and usually there’s no problem, but my name isn’t on his order so just like you said, technically I’ll be just “visiting” him (he knew this could be a problem but he really wanted to go to Japan no matter what, even offered to pay full price for my medical care if I couldn’t use Japanese healthcare).

[Murphsegj 6]

You can seek out command sponsorship when you arrive in Japan. have your spouse contact their sponsor and get in touch with the Chain of Command and explain your current situation. The recommendation is based on their command officers approval. If you dont do this, it can screw up the housing situation over there.

 

also USCIS isnt smart. You are on their dependency data and your spouse has orders overseas. Just do a change of address with USCIS and show proof of marriage, dependency and why your spouse is in Japan, aka their orders.

 

My spouse inst on any of my CONUS orders, but they are in DEERS, so the military still knows you are married and are required to be supported.

[SAK214 21]

On 6/12/2021 at 2:13 PM, Murphsegj said:

You can seek out command sponsorship when you arrive in Japan. have your spouse contact their sponsor and get in touch with the Chain of Command and explain your current situation. The recommendation is based on their command officers approval. If you dont do this, it can screw up the housing situation over there.

 

also USCIS isnt smart. You are on their dependency data and your spouse has orders overseas. Just do a change of address with USCIS and show proof of marriage, dependency and why your spouse is in Japan, aka their orders.

 

My spouse inst on any of my CONUS orders, but they are in DEERS, so the military still knows you are married and are required to be supported.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, my husband was actually advised by his superior to get command sponsorship after living there for a while. We still have a chance to get approved after a year or so when EFMP determines that I'm healthy enough to live in Japan and won't have any special medical needs (I already don't have any, but they only looked at my past medical records and didn't care how well I currently am). How could it affect our housing situation, specifically? So far his sponsor has been telling us that there's no problem for me to go to Japan and live with him, even without the sponsorship. 

 

USCIS really isn't very smart and that's why we're freaking out. But thankfully immigration processes are so much easier for military members and their families. When we submitted our I-131 (request for travel permit), we included the copy of his order, both of our military ID and a letter explaining our situation, so hopefully they'll understand our situation.  

[Murphsegj 6]

It depends on their paygrade on where they will stick them. You dont want to show up with them being a resident advisor in the barracks.

 

i am a bit concerned with your comment on EFMP. If thats the case, the CO wont be able to push command sponsorship, because medical will deny you on all of the bases anyway. You will need to get that corrected immediately. If its base doing it to you, go beyond them via an outside doctor, or file an ICE against the base since it doesn't apply.

[SAK214 21]

2 hours ago, Murphsegj said:

It depends on their paygrade on where they will stick them. You dont want to show up with them being a resident advisor in the barracks.

 

i am a bit concerned with your comment on EFMP. If thats the case, the CO wont be able to push command sponsorship, because medical will deny you on all of the bases anyway. You will need to get that corrected immediately. If its base doing it to you, go beyond them via an outside doctor, or file an ICE against the base since it doesn't apply.

With my husband's paygrade, they won't put him in the barracks. We have an option to live in an off-base apartment or house. 

I was actually seeing an off-base doctor and he even wrote a letter explaining how much I've gotten better, and he thinks it's okay for me to live in Japan, but EFMP still denied our appeal. I talked to my husband, and he said he'd consider the ICE option with his superiors. Thank you so much for the suggestion. 

I'm really worried and scared that I could be in trouble by moving to Japan, but we've already made a plan and we can't change it now. It's going to be too hard for us to be apart for minimum of 3 years, even though I'm sure there are many military families who have to be separated due to variety of reasons like us.