Free Everything Coming To A Store Near You!

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

Cynthia Nixon should invite them into her house and let them take her things.

In San Francisco, it is very unfair because if you want more than $950 worth of goods, you have to make two trips.

 

 

 

[Boiler 45,525]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-francisco-shoplifting-walgreens-closing-b1852470.html

 

Shoplifting in San Francisco is so out of control that retailers are closing stores
Walgreens has closed 17 of its stores due to rampant stealing, and CVS has called the city ‘one of the epicenters of organized retail crime’

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

27 minutes ago, Boiler said:

‘one of the epicenters of organized retail crime’

I was just watching this one:

 

 

[laylalex 7,285]

That Indy article references this piece in the NY Times which is worth reading: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/us/san-francisco-shoplifting-epidemic.html

 

A very good article on SF crime rates is here in the Chronicle (paywall I'm afraid): https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/San-Francisco-s-crime-rates-shifted-16071268.php?converted=1

 

Interesting that larceny and theft is down in San Francisco from 2020 (year to date comparison). And 2020 was down from 2019. And 2019 was down from 2018. And 2018 was down from 2017, which is the first year they have public-facing data available.

https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard

 

Graphic from that Chronicle article if you can't read it, pulling the same SFPD data in the dashboard:

 

So what does this mean? I mean, people think or feel shoplifting is increasing, but the data doesn't appear to bear that out. That doesn't mean that these incidents aren't happening, but this looks like some sloppy reporting if rates are going down and the NYT reporter is relying on what the SFPD are telling him without looking at whether those statements can be verified. Why are the police saying that shoplifting is on the rise when their own data doesn't reflect that? That's a valid question, I think. I am not defending the shoplifters at all, but what is the reason for the disconnect between the data and the statements made by the SFPD? 

 

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

13 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Interesting that larceny and theft is down in San Francisco from 2020 (year to date comparison). And 2020 was down from 2019. And 2019 was down from 2018. And 2018 was down from 2017, which is the first year they have public-facing data available.

https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard

I can't read the first two.

 

In the first video I posted, the guy said he interviewed a few police and they said "don't believe the numbers".

 

That certainly makes sense for shoplifting since these stores are not even bothering to call the police.  And on other crimes, especially by homeless, they are not prosecuting.  Let them walk and I assume those are not recorded in the SFPD stats as shown.  No wonder the charts shows less crime.  They are not arresting or prosecuting anyone.

 

I lived in the Bay area from 1994 to 2003, and worked in the city from 2000 to 2003.  It was a great place then.  Now, it doesn't look so great.

[Boiler 45,525]

They have excluded much of the crime with this limit, problem solved.

[laylalex 7,285]

I lived in the Bay Area more recently than you (late 2018 through early 2020). I genuinely loved where I lived and would move back in a heartbeat, but work keeps us here right now. (Come on, green card!) I didn't live in SF, but my boyfriend (now husband) did and I shuttled back and forth from the East Bay to his place in Cow Hollow until he moved in with me. We relocated to Santa Monica pretty soon after that. I have told my husband that if we do move back, I want to go back to the East Bay, partly for the vibe, and partly because while I like visiting SF I am not crazy about the city itself as a place to live.

 

Personally, when a cop tells me to trust them, I don't. I say this as the child of a lawyer who has a lot of cop friends! It is just as easy to say "don't trust the cops to give you the true story" as to say "don't trust the numbers to give you the true story." It was the reporter's job to ask questions and dig deeper, and he failed to do so. That's sloppy. 

 

We need to look at who is on either side of this debate. On one side are the police and primarily grocers/pharmacies (good article here: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-09-16/california-grocery-industry-supports-tougher-crime-laws). On the other are criminologists and people who fought for the reclassification of certain crimes from felonies to misdemeanors. I'd say the criminologists are probably the least likely to have a specific angle to work here, but we need to be skeptical of everyone. What do cops and grocers have to gain from their arguments? What do the activists? 

 

Also, just because the police are not prosecuting doesn't mean the crime isn't reported. They absolutely ARE recorded and you absolutely CAN get prosecuted for shoplifting for amounts less than $950. 

 

There's a lot of questions here and not really any firm answers. Sometimes the people closest to a problem are unable to see the forest for the trees. We have anecdata, and we have data, and we have those with the anecdata calling the data unreliable, and those with the data calling the anecdata unreliable too. 

[Boiler 45,525]

Seems that retailers are treating it as stock shortages, staff see it but ignore it so what is there to report?

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

14 minutes ago, laylalex said:

We need to look at who is on either side of this debate. On one side are the police and primarily grocers/pharmacies (good article here: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-09-16/california-grocery-industry-supports-tougher-crime-laws). On the other are criminologists and people who fought for the reclassification of certain crimes from felonies to misdemeanors. I'd say the criminologists are probably the least likely to have a specific angle to work here, but we need to be skeptical of everyone. What do cops and grocers have to gain from their arguments? What do the activists? 

I don't see anything to debate when it comes to the shoplifting.  Laws and penalties are made for several reasons, and one key one is for deterrence.  Once the criminals know that there is no enforcement, lawlessness takes over.  That is a bit of what we have here in the Philippines.  Lots of laws but almost no enforcement.  So normal people become lawless.  Why not?

 

You can debate felony vs. misdemeanor and penalties.  However, the law and penalty you end up with need to be enforced.  Otherwise, anarchy ensues.

[laylalex 7,285]

16 minutes ago, seekingthetruth said:

I don't see anything to debate when it comes to the shoplifting.  Laws and penalties are made for several reasons, and one key one is for deterrence.  Once the criminals know that there is no enforcement, lawlessness takes over.  That is a bit of what we have here in the Philippines.  Lots of laws but almost no enforcement.  So normal people become lawless.  Why not?

 

You can debate felony vs. misdemeanor and penalties.  However, the law and penalty you end up with need to be enforced.  Otherwise, anarchy ensues.

I don't disagree with what you say here. I'm no expert on any of this, but I guess one question I'd have for cops who say their hands are tied is: why? If the laws are there, if there are prosecutions happening, if the legislature intended there to be something of a bite to the laws they passed, why do the cops not bother to charge? Not every charge will lead to a prosecution (I mean, duh), but the less charging is done, the more emboldened people become. I think you and I are pretty close on that point. What is the disincentive to charge? Is it coming from the DA's office, or from within the police itself? The courts? 

 

I appear to be bursting with questions tonight with no real answers. 

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

10 minutes ago, laylalex said:

What is the disincentive to charge? Is it coming from the DA's office, or from within the police itself? The courts? 

In the case of SF I think it is the DA.  And the DA is:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin

 

Reading his bio, just shaking my head, sadly.  Excerpts:

 

Boudin was born in New York City to Jewish parents.[4] His parents, Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, were Weather Underground members.[5]

When Boudin was 14 months old, his parents were arrested for murder in their role as getaway car drivers in the Brink's robbery of 1981 in Rockland County, New York.[4][6] His mother was sentenced to 20 years to life[7] and his father to 75 years to life for the felony murders of two police officers and a security guard.[8] After his parents were incarcerated, Boudin was raised in Chicago by adoptive parents Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who, like his parents, had been members of the Weather Underground.[9] Boudin reports that he did not learn to read until age 9.[10] Kathy Boudin was released under parole supervision in 2003.[6][11]

Boudin descends from a long left-wing lineage. His great-great-grand-uncle, Louis B. Boudin,[12] was a Marxist theoretician and author of a two-volume history of the Supreme Court's influence on American government, and his grandfather Leonard Boudin was an attorney who represented controversial clients such as Fidel Castro and Paul Robeson.[13] His uncle Michael Boudin[12] is a judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit, and Michael Boudin's uncle Isidor Feinstein Stone was an independent journalist.[12][14

 

Before law school, Boudin traveled to Venezuela and served as a translator in the Venezuelan Presidential Palace during the administration of Hugo Chavez.

 

Boudin was elected San Francisco District Attorney in the 2019 election, defeating interim district attorney Suzy Loftus.[30][31] Boudin campaigned for the office on a decarceration platform of eliminating cash bail, establishing a unit to re-evaluate wrongful convictions and refusing to assist Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) with raids and arrests.[32] The San Francisco Police Officers Association (SFPOA) and other law enforcement groups spent $650,000 in an unsuccessful effort to defeat Boudin.[33] Attorney General William Barr criticized Boudin and like-minded DAs, accusing them of undermining the police, letting criminals off the hook and endangering public safety.[34] In an interview during the COVID-19 pandemic, Boudin questioned whether the nation "can safely continue the national system of mass incarceration. Why do we need to take people to jail for non-violent offenses if what they really need is drug treatment or mental health services?"[32]

 

 

[TBoneTX 45,305]

A man's wife was arrested for shoplifting, and she was hauled before the small-town judge.

"What did you steal?" asked the judge.

"A can of plums," the woman answered embarrassedly.

"How many plums were in the can?" asked the judge.

"Six," responded the woman.

"In this case," said the judge, "I sentence you to six days in jail -- one for each plum."

The woman's husband then urgently whispered, "Your Honor, she also stole a can of peas!"

[Boiler 45,525]

8 hours ago, laylalex said:

I don't disagree with what you say here. I'm no expert on any of this, but I guess one question I'd have for cops who say their hands are tied is: why? If the laws are there, if there are prosecutions happening, if the legislature intended there to be something of a bite to the laws they passed, why do the cops not bother to charge? Not every charge will lead to a prosecution (I mean, duh), but the less charging is done, the more emboldened people become. I think you and I are pretty close on that point. What is the disincentive to charge? Is it coming from the DA's office, or from within the police itself? The courts? 

 

I appear to be bursting with questions tonight with no real answers. 

If it is under $950 itis not a crime arrest not relevant, no prosecution. 

 

Not sure if you watched the first video, I have seen his stuff, a travel blogger I guess and has been to some interesting places. His comparison is interesting. I think from memory he was living in Ukraine? and came back for a visit ind got stuck.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

8 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

A man's wife was arrested for shoplifting, and she was hauled before the small-town judge.

"What did you steal?" asked the judge.

"A can of plums," the woman answered embarrassedly.

"How many plums were in the can?" asked the judge.

"Six," responded the woman.

"In this case," said the judge, "I sentence you to six days in jail -- one for each plum."

The woman's husband then urgently whispered, "Your Honor, she also stole a can of peas!"

Hmmm that was very funny. Mrs. T using your account ? 

[Neonred 3,564]

54 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Hmmm that was very funny. Mrs. T using your account ? 

He's just recycling another one of his old jokes.