Woman sues US prison over son's 86-minute execution

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Given that this line of comment has a habit of becoming personal - I'd rather we stay on topic

If you don't agree with what I wrote - simply say so and post a reasoned response. No need to lose your rag over it. I'm not.

this from someone who has called a person morally and ethically bankrupt in the past

This from someone who wants to keep the thread on topic and not derail it with personal attacks, baiting and digging up a past that I thought we had amicably put behind us.

This is a moderated forum now (as it should be). There's less latitude these days for that sort of thing.

Again - it would be nice to keep this on-topic. If you disagree with my post, please submit a reasoned response. I don't see that as asking a lot.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Let's keep to topic eh and not let this get personal?

Oh damn, I've had to put my hat on and now I have "hat hair". Hurrumph.

bill ewok for the hair appointment

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

still it's worth a thought that had the victim been armed, the outcome might have been different. but i know, gun grabbers can't admit that.

"Might" being the operative word. As I said.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Given that this line of comment has a habit of becoming personal - I'd rather we stay on topic

If you don't agree with what I wrote - simply say so and post a reasoned response. No need to lose your rag over it. I'm not.

this from someone who has called a person morally and ethically bankrupt in the past

This from someone who wants to keep the thread on topic and not derail it with personal attacks, baiting and digging up a past that I thought we had amicably put behind us.

This is a moderated forum now (as it should be). There's less latitude these days for that sort of thing.

Again - it would be nice to keep this on-topic. If you disagree with my post, please submit a reasoned response. I don't see that as asking a lot.

yes indeed......

so tell me something, while you're busy being so thoughtful. what exactly is so wrong with discussing gun ownership in a thread about a murder? i've yet to see anything resembling a modest stab at that topic by you.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Given that this line of comment has a habit of becoming personal - I'd rather we stay on topic

If you don't agree with what I wrote - simply say so and post a reasoned response. No need to lose your rag over it. I'm not.

this from someone who has called a person morally and ethically bankrupt in the past

This from someone who wants to keep the thread on topic and not derail it with personal attacks, baiting and digging up a past that I thought we had amicably put behind us.

This is a moderated forum now (as it should be). There's less latitude these days for that sort of thing.

Again - it would be nice to keep this on-topic. If you disagree with my post, please submit a reasoned response. I don't see that as asking a lot.

yes indeed......

so tell me something, while you're busy being so thoughtful. what exactly is so wrong with discussing gun ownership in a thread about a murder? i've yet to see anything resembling a modest stab at that topic by you.

Because as I see it - it assumes could have/should have/would haves on the part of the victim - in the absence of specific details pertaining to the case. In this context the argument whether he 'should have' been carrying - is really irrelevant.

There's no way you can say with any degree of certainty what the outcome of that incident would have been (even if you were to dig up the court transcripts) if the guy was or was not packing and absolutely no way to know that if he wasn't, whether he would have been inclined towards owning anyway.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Given that this line of comment has a habit of becoming personal - I'd rather we stay on topic

If you don't agree with what I wrote - simply say so and post a reasoned response. No need to lose your rag over it. I'm not.

this from someone who has called a person morally and ethically bankrupt in the past

This from someone who wants to keep the thread on topic and not derail it with personal attacks, baiting and digging up a past that I thought we had amicably put behind us.

This is a moderated forum now (as it should be). There's less latitude these days for that sort of thing.

Again - it would be nice to keep this on-topic. If you disagree with my post, please submit a reasoned response. I don't see that as asking a lot.

yes indeed......

so tell me something, while you're busy being so thoughtful. what exactly is so wrong with discussing gun ownership in a thread about a murder? i've yet to see anything resembling a modest stab at that topic by you.

Because as I see it - it assumes could have/should have/would haves on the part of the victim - in the absence of specific details pertaining to the case. In this context the argument whether he 'should have' been carrying - is really irrelevant.

There's no way you can say with any degree of certainty what the outcome of that incident would have been (even if you were to dig up the court transcripts) if the guy was or was not packing and absolutely no way to know that if he wasn't, whether he would have been inclined towards owning anyway.

i believe it's certainly safe to say he wasn't carrying, given the outcome of the event and the laws of the city and state at the time, as those laws made it nearly impossible to carry and follow the law due to the complexities of such. i was offering that as a possible reason why he didn't have such, and how said laws could have been a contributing factor in the death of a law abiding citizen at the hands of an armed druggie looking for his next score.

it's a given that the police can't protect the populace. so if the criminals have guns and have shown a willingness to use them, why shouldn't the law abiding citizens be able to arm themselves to prevent being a statistic? yet some state and city laws are downright idiotic as they prevent the law abiding citizens from protecting themselves.

while i don't agree that everyone should have a firearm, as shown by the vt event, and that obviously background checks should be made, why are we preventing the average citizens from protecting themselves?

[^KK^ 3]

Somebody is trying to get PAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It probably was a reason - but still can't answer the question whether he would have chosen to own one even if it was permitted. Neither can it be assumed that if he had one that it would have made any difference whatsoever. Again without knowing the specifics of the case - its impossible to say either way.

I do think however that there is a legal liability for botching the execution, and the current policy is (rightly) under review for that reason.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

It probably was a reason - but still can't answer the question whether he would have chosen to own one even if it was permitted. Neither can it be assumed that if he had one that it would have made any difference whatsoever. Again without knowing the specifics of the case - its impossible to say either way.

I do think however that there is a legal liability for botching the execution, and the current policy is (rightly) under review for that reason.

it's like voting. better to have the right and not exercise it than not have the right and want to exercise it. and yeah, i think she'll probably get a boatload of money outta this.

[Rings 10]

The reality here is that a man was shot and killed and his murderer went to prison and suffered the death penality for it. Let's stick to the facts here... this is not about gun control and weather the victim owned a gun or not because it does not change the facts and the reality of this discussion.

This mother is upset because a American Humane law was broken. This means that she is within her rights to sue. This is yet another fact. We have laws that have strict guidelines on what is humane death and what is not. It does not matter if the man was in prison or not... that does not give anyone the right to play God on his life and make him suffer because they feel that he is deserving of it and it damn well does not mean that he does not have people who still love him just like his victims family has people who love him... despite who he is and what he has done, you have no right to condone his murder in the same fashion that he has no right to commit murder. If you think it is good to kill him off because that's what he gets... then you are no better than he is.

If you think that owning a gun is something important, then that is your problem, but not all people want to subject their lives to violence and weapons and you do not know this man and so sitting here telling everyone that he wanted to own a gun is absurd and making you look stupid.

This dumb perspective of "revenge" and "what he has done should be done to him" is precisely why there can never be world peace... because people can't get over ####### and see things from anything but their own selfish point of view.

um, this mighta come across better if you'd chosen better words.....

still it's worth a thought that had the victim been armed, the outcome might have been different. but i know, gun grabbers can't admit that.

No it's not worth a thought because it is a "what if" and not a fact of the situation. It is absolutely NOT worth a thought because the fact remains that he didn't have a gun or use a gun in the case at hand. "What if" does not change the point of anything here... in fact, it holds no bearing whatsoever to this entire topic.

And if what I said is not clear enough, then let me give this to you in Layman's Terms:

If you think guns are good and great, good for you.

If you think you know this victims thoughts regarding owning a gun, then you are a antonishing mind reader of the dead and you should be making millions of dollars in your gift of reading the minds of dead people.

If you are a millionaire because you can read the mind of a dead man, then why are you on the internet instead of in a hot tub or something?

You are ignorantly determining the thoughts, opinions and feelings of a dead man and stearing away from topic for use in your own personal reflection that guns are somehow okay in life and should be owned by eyeryone who does not intend on becoming a victim.

You posted the photo of a shirt that simply said just that.

I am not laying any sort of judgement toward you based on any information that you did not provide to everyone in this thread yourself.

Just because you think someone should buy, own or use a gun, does nothing to the overall topic that we are discussing here and you are causing a heated arguement for your own personal pleasure and stearing away from the real life facts of the discussion.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

The reality here is that a man was shot and killed and his murderer went to prison and suffered the death penality for it. Let's stick to the facts here... this is not about gun control and weather the victim owned a gun or not because it does not change the facts and the reality of this discussion.

This mother is upset because a American Humane law was broken. This means that she is within her rights to sue. This is yet another fact. We have laws that have strict guidelines on what is humane death and what is not. It does not matter if the man was in prison or not... that does not give anyone the right to play God on his life and make him suffer because they feel that he is deserving of it and it damn well does not mean that he does not have people who still love him just like his victims family has people who love him... despite who he is and what he has done, you have no right to condone his murder in the same fashion that he has no right to commit murder. If you think it is good to kill him off because that's what he gets... then you are no better than he is.

If you think that owning a gun is something important, then that is your problem, but not all people want to subject their lives to violence and weapons and you do not know this man and so sitting here telling everyone that he wanted to own a gun is absurd and making you look stupid.

This dumb perspective of "revenge" and "what he has done should be done to him" is precisely why there can never be world peace... because people can't get over ####### and see things from anything but their own selfish point of view.

um, this mighta come across better if you'd chosen better words.....

still it's worth a thought that had the victim been armed, the outcome might have been different. but i know, gun grabbers can't admit that.

No it's not worth a thought because it is a "what if" and not a fact of the situation. It is absolutely NOT worth a thought because the fact remains that he didn't have a gun or use a gun in the case at hand. "What if" does not change the point of anything here... in fact, it holds no bearing whatsoever to this entire topic.

And if what I said is not clear enough, then let me give this to you in Layman's Terms:

If you think guns are good and great, good for you.

If you think you know this victims thoughts regarding owning a gun, then you are a antonishing mind reader of the dead and you should be making millions of dollars in your gift of reading the minds of dead people.

If you are a millionaire because you can read the mind of a dead man, then why are you on the internet instead of in a hot tub or something?

You are ignorantly determining the thoughts, opinions and feelings of a dead man and stearing away from topic for use in your own personal reflection that guns are somehow okay in life and should be owned by eyeryone who does not intend on becoming a victim.

You posted the photo of a shirt that simply said just that.

I am not laying any sort of judgement toward you based on any information that you did not provide to everyone in this thread yourself.

Just because you think someone should buy, own or use a gun, does nothing to the overall topic that we are discussing here and you are causing a heated arguement for your own personal pleasure and stearing away from the real life facts of the discussion.

i believe my statements have bearing on the topic, and obviously you can't see that nor enter into discourse without a host of personal attacks. when you can refrain from such let me know.

[Rings 10]

The reality here is that a man was shot and killed and his murderer went to prison and suffered the death penality for it. Let's stick to the facts here... this is not about gun control and weather the victim owned a gun or not because it does not change the facts and the reality of this discussion.

This mother is upset because a American Humane law was broken. This means that she is within her rights to sue. This is yet another fact. We have laws that have strict guidelines on what is humane death and what is not. It does not matter if the man was in prison or not... that does not give anyone the right to play God on his life and make him suffer because they feel that he is deserving of it and it damn well does not mean that he does not have people who still love him just like his victims family has people who love him... despite who he is and what he has done, you have no right to condone his murder in the same fashion that he has no right to commit murder. If you think it is good to kill him off because that's what he gets... then you are no better than he is.

If you think that owning a gun is something important, then that is your problem, but not all people want to subject their lives to violence and weapons and you do not know this man and so sitting here telling everyone that he wanted to own a gun is absurd and making you look stupid.

This dumb perspective of "revenge" and "what he has done should be done to him" is precisely why there can never be world peace... because people can't get over ####### and see things from anything but their own selfish point of view.

um, this mighta come across better if you'd chosen better words.....

still it's worth a thought that had the victim been armed, the outcome might have been different. but i know, gun grabbers can't admit that.

No it's not worth a thought because it is a "what if" and not a fact of the situation. It is absolutely NOT worth a thought because the fact remains that he didn't have a gun or use a gun in the case at hand. "What if" does not change the point of anything here... in fact, it holds no bearing whatsoever to this entire topic.

And if what I said is not clear enough, then let me give this to you in Layman's Terms:

If you think guns are good and great, good for you.

If you think you know this victims thoughts regarding owning a gun, then you are a antonishing mind reader of the dead and you should be making millions of dollars in your gift of reading the minds of dead people.

If you are a millionaire because you can read the mind of a dead man, then why are you on the internet instead of in a hot tub or something?

You are ignorantly determining the thoughts, opinions and feelings of a dead man and stearing away from topic for use in your own personal reflection that guns are somehow okay in life and should be owned by eyeryone who does not intend on becoming a victim.

You posted the photo of a shirt that simply said just that.

I am not laying any sort of judgement toward you based on any information that you did not provide to everyone in this thread yourself.

Just because you think someone should buy, own or use a gun, does nothing to the overall topic that we are discussing here and you are causing a heated arguement for your own personal pleasure and stearing away from the real life facts of the discussion.

i believe my statements have bearing on the topic, and obviously you can't see that nor enter into discourse without a host of personal attacks. when you can refrain from such let me know.

Excuse me, I have not personally attacked you once in this thread. I even stated in my last post that you yourself have just quoted, that I am not laying judgement upon you based on anything that you did not state yourself. I am merely saying that it is an ignorant comment and it is and I even provided an in depth explaination as to why it is ignorant. That is not a dig on your person, but in the nature of your statement.

Your statement would have more bearing on this topic if this were a topic about if guns should be permitted in society or not, but this is not a topic of that nature. This is a thread based on a woman who is suing a prison for breaking the law regarding humanity guidelines that are currently in place.

This is not a dicussion about if guns should be owned by people or not or if the victim should have a gun or not, did have a gun or not... etc...

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Excuse me, I have not personally attacked you once in this thread.

--------snip------

The fact remains that by agreeing with murder, you are condoning murder and therefore no better than a murderer...

What is your point here? Life is a choice so choose to own a gun so you can kill someone or else you are going to be killed because you are a victim? So you agree with murder and therefore are still not better than a murderer. You are thinking like a murderer no? If you think someone should die, then you are thinking in the same fashion as a murderer.

If you think that owning a gun is something important, then that is your problem, but not all people want to subject their lives to violence and weapons and you do not know this man and so sitting here telling everyone that he wanted to own a gun is absurd and making you look stupid.

If you think guns are good and great, good for you.

If you think you know this victims thoughts regarding owning a gun, then you are a antonishing mind reader of the dead and you should be making millions of dollars in your gift of reading the minds of dead people.

If you are a millionaire because you can read the mind of a dead man, then why are you on the internet instead of in a hot tub or something?

You are ignorantly determining the thoughts, opinions and feelings of a dead man and stearing away from topic for use in your own personal reflection that guns are somehow okay in life and should be owned by eyeryone who does not intend on becoming a victim.

satisfied? i didn't even get into the condescending posts. so 'nuff said, i'm done with this thread. my post was not meant to be a free ticket for you to engage in personal attacks.

[Rings 10]

Oh good I am glad to see that you have decided to stop talking finally...

[Mags 112]

My post earlier on in this thread asked for the personal insults to stop and this applied to EVERYONE. Please keep on topic.

Thanks everyone.