Maintaining Canadian PR and Awaiting Canadian Citizenship while residing in the US as an LPR

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

I am a Canadian Permanent Resident, and will be applying for Canadian Citizenship in October 2021. when I become eligible for it. It is generally a 1.5 year process, so i likely will not receive it until early 2023. Meanwhile, I am also in the CR1 process and will likely move to the US early 2022, activating my LPR status there.

 

My question is, is there any rules against this? I do not want to renounce my Canadian PR if possible. My intention is to reside in the US with my husband and eventually become a US resident, but I want to be able to obtain my Canadian Citizenship as well.

[payxibka 10,045]

48 minutes ago, From_CAN_2_US said:

I am a Canadian Permanent Resident, and will be applying for Canadian Citizenship in October 2021. when I become eligible for it. It is generally a 1.5 year process, so i likely will not receive it until early 2023. Meanwhile, I am also in the CR1 process and will likely move to the US early 2022, activating my LPR status there.

 

My question is, is there any rules against this? I do not want to renounce my Canadian PR if possible. My intention is to reside in the US with my husband and eventually become a US resident, but I want to be able to obtain my Canadian Citizenship as well.

Normally it is virtually impossible to maintain "residency" in two or more locations simultaneously.

 

First suggestion is to read and understand what it takes to maintain US residency.  Secondly,  read and understand what it takes to maintain Canadian residency. 

 

There likely will be conflicts that you will need to be aware of and possibly specifically address.

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

5 minutes ago, payxibka said:

Normally it is virtually impossible to maintain "residency" in two or more locations simultaneously.

 

First suggestion is to read and understand what it takes to maintain US residency.  Secondly,  read and understand what it takes to maintain Canadian residency. 

 

There likely will be conflicts that you will need to be aware of and possibly specifically address.

Yes, I have looked at the requirements to maintain residency for both countries and I will be able to satisfy them.

 

For Canada, I have to have lived in Canada for 730 days in the last years, which I would easily be able to maintain until I get my Canadian Citizenship even after leaving Canada and living in US.

 

For US, I won't have a problem maintaining residency, as I will be living there, once I get LPR status, and have no intention to move in the next 5 to 7 years at least (most probably for the rest of my life).

 

I am more worried about the times when I cross the border.

1. When I first enter the US at POE, would they ask me about my status in Canada and would they expect me to renounce my PR there?

2. I may have to reenter Canada twice after that - once for citizenship interview and once for citizenship ceremony. i am not too worried about the Canadian border, but when I re-enter the US and they ask me the purpose of my visit, and I admit, it is for citizenship proceedings in Canada as a Canadian resident, would that pose any issues?

[JeanneAdil 6,514]

It would require you to get your Canadian citizenship 1st and then make the move to the US  /many do

this is a timeframe issue as we can have dual citizenship with Canada

but to move here 1st and try for Canadian citizenship would not work

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

Just now, JeanneAdil said:

It would require you to get your Canadian citizenship 1st and then make the move to the US  /many do

this is a timeframe issue as we can have dual citizenship with Canada

but to move here 1st and try for Canadian citizenship would not work

That's what I am worried about.

 

Why exactly would it not work though. What is the rule that will be violated and on which side (US or Canada?)

[JeanneAdil 6,514]

1 minute ago, From_CAN_2_US said:

That's what I am worried about.

 

Why exactly would it not work though. What is the rule that will be violated and on which side (US or Canada?)

you would be moving to US and giving up the Canadian residency 

pretty hard to live in both countries at the same time and filling out taxes   -a real mess 

give up the idea unless you want to wait the extra year to get the Canadian done first 

but seeing you already submitted documents to NVC,  hopefully the US interview will come up in 2021

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

9 minutes ago, JeanneAdil said:

you would be moving to US and giving up the Canadian residency 

pretty hard to live in both countries at the same time and filling out taxes   -a real mess 

give up the idea unless you want to wait the extra year to get the Canadian done first 

but seeing you already submitted documents to NVC,  hopefully the US interview will come up in 2021

"you would be moving to US and giving up the Canadian residency"

But why do I have to give up my Canadian residency. Is this a rule? If so, where can I find the source?

 

"pretty hard to live in both countries at the same time and filling out taxes   -a real mess"

I won't be living in both countries. I will only be living in US. I would file taxes in both countries, in US as resident, and Canada as a non-resident. I would still be able to meet the requirement of presence in Canada, as I would have lived in Canada for about 1300 days before I move which is more than enough for me to maintain residency until 2025, and I would have obtained Canadian citizenship latest by 2023.

 

Sorry, if I am coming across as argumentative. I am not saying you are wrong when you say that it is not possible, but I am simply trying to understand where exactly the problem lies - what rule will I be violating that would prevent me from becoming a Canadian Citizen while being an LPR?

[JeanneAdil 6,514]

3 hours ago, From_CAN_2_US said:

"you would be moving to US and giving up the Canadian residency"

But why do I have to give up my Canadian residency. Is this a rule? If so, where can I find the source?

 

"pretty hard to live in both countries at the same time and filling out taxes   -a real mess"

I won't be living in both countries. I will only be living in US. I would file taxes in both countries, in US as resident, and Canada as a non-resident. I would still be able to meet the requirement of presence in Canada, as I would have lived in Canada for about 1300 days before I move which is more than enough for me to maintain residency until 2025, and I would have obtained Canadian citizenship latest by 2023.

 

Sorry, if I am coming across as argumentative. I am not saying you are wrong when you say that it is not possible, but I am simply trying to understand where exactly the problem lies - what rule will I be violating that would prevent me from becoming a Canadian Citizen while being an LPR?

if you don't live in a country ,  you don't have residency there  

i know the 5 year rule 

This means that you can spend a total of up to 3 years outside of Canada during a 5-year period. However, if you have been a permanent resident for less than 5 years and decide to leave the country for an extended period of time, it is up to you to prove to IRCC that you will be able to meet your residency requirements.

 

Permanent residents are eligible for citizenship after living in Canada for at least three years (1,095 days) in the last five years.

but living means residency and maintaining an apartment or house 

and as you say,  you don't intend to move out of the US for 5 years

 

try it  /see if it works for you but when you become a US LPR,  you do loose your canadian health care (i read that on here from a Canadian member)

and don't worry about being argumenative,  it brings out a lot of information

and i am too old to take it personal 

if i screw up here,  members tell me

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

8 hours ago, From_CAN_2_US said:

I am a Canadian Permanent Resident, and will be applying for Canadian Citizenship in October 2021. when I become eligible for it. It is generally a 1.5 year process, so i likely will not receive it until early 2023. Meanwhile, I am also in the CR1 process and will likely move to the US early 2022, activating my LPR status there.

 

My question is, is there any rules against this? I do not want to renounce my Canadian PR if possible. My intention is to reside in the US with my husband and eventually become a US resident, but I want to be able to obtain my Canadian Citizenship as well.

 

To maintain your Canadian PR you need to be in Canada 730 days out of a rolling 5 year period. That is literally on Canadian soil, not a resident, not working, literally just visiting counts despite what others here might say. - https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&top=10

 

To be eligible for citizenship, you will need to have been physically present in Canada for 1095 days in the five years prior to the day you sign your application. After you apply for Citizenship, you only need to continue to maintain your Canadian PR status by following the 730 days in 5 years rule until you are granted citizenship. - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility.html#time

 

Canada has removed the requirement to continue to intend to live in Canada after a grant of citizenship. See: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/10/changes_to_the_citizenshipactasaresultofbillc-6.html

"This provision is repealed. Applicants are no longer required to intend to continue to live in Canada once granted citizenship. This removes concerns from new Canadians who may need to live outside of Canada for work or personal reasons."

 

You. are. fine. Take it from a guy with Canadian PR who is acquiring US LPR status and has researched this at length.

 

I'm actually doing this. I'm filing for Canadian citizenship in June and will be moving just over the border into the US in July. I think you only need a Canadian address which you can receive notices from IRCC, but to be honest they're moving that all online these days.

 

US PR is harder to maintain...I've written at length what is required to maintain that...but if you're planning on being US resident, you should be fine barring extended stays outside of Canada and claiming foreign domicile. Additionally, acquiring Canadian citizenship should not have any bearing on your US PR so long as you maintain your US residency and ties to the US.

 

Do *not* renounce your Canadian PR under any circumstances. So long as you are in compliance with the 730 days in 5 years rule, there is no need to renounce your Canadian PR. The only time you should renounce is if you know you're not in compliance with the residency obligation and don't want to wait for IRCC to make a determination. The US does not require people to renounce Canadian PR so long as you are living in the US as your primary residence. The general opinion on VJ is that you are booted off Provincial Healthcare as you have US residency and could risk your US LPR status. I am unconvinced about the risk to LPR status here so long as you demonstrate your US ties and physical presence. What is more likely is that your province will come after you for getting free healthcare that you're not entitled to.

 

You will need to return to Canada to do your citizenship test, interview and take the Oath, so be prepared for that.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Kai (CanadaDude)

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

**barring extended stays outside the US, not Canada...darn post edit timeout!

 

I will also add, some border officers get confused at double PR and might pressure you to renounce it, or threaten to revoke it. The CBSA has no authority to revoke your PR so long as you are in compliance with the residency obligation and you enter Canada by right in accordance with Sec. 27(1) of IRPA. Nor can CBP revoke your US PR, only an IJ can do that, and you will avoid that by demonstrating that you're living and working in the US.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Kai (CanadaDude)

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

1 hour ago, Kai (CanadaDude) said:

 

To maintain your Canadian PR you need to be in Canada 730 days out of a rolling 5 year period. That is literally on Canadian soil, not a resident, not working, literally just visiting counts despite what others here might say. - https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&top=10

 

To be eligible for citizenship, you will need to have been physically present in Canada for 1095 days in the five years prior to the day you sign your application. After you apply for Citizenship, you only need to continue to maintain your Canadian PR status by following the 730 days in 5 years rule until you are granted citizenship. - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility.html#time

 

Canada has removed the requirement to continue to intend to live in Canada after a grant of citizenship. See: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/10/changes_to_the_citizenshipactasaresultofbillc-6.html

"This provision is repealed. Applicants are no longer required to intend to continue to live in Canada once granted citizenship. This removes concerns from new Canadians who may need to live outside of Canada for work or personal reasons."

 

You. are. fine. Take it from a guy with Canadian PR who is acquiring US LPR status and has researched this at length.

 

I'm actually doing this. I'm filing for Canadian citizenship in June and will be moving just over the border into the US in July. I think you only need a Canadian address which you can receive notices from IRCC, but to be honest they're moving that all online these days.

 

US PR is harder to maintain...I've written at length what is required to maintain that...but if you're planning on being US resident, you should be fine barring extended stays outside of Canada and claiming foreign domicile. Additionally, acquiring Canadian citizenship should not have any bearing on your US PR so long as you maintain your US residency and ties to the US.

 

Do *not* renounce your Canadian PR under any circumstances. So long as you are in compliance with the 730 days in 5 years rule, there is no need to renounce your Canadian PR. The only time you should renounce is if you know you're not in compliance with the residency obligation and don't want to wait for IRCC to make a determination. The US does not require people to renounce Canadian PR so long as you are living in the US as your primary residence. The general opinion on VJ is that you are booted off Provincial Healthcare as you have US residency and could risk your US LPR status. I am unconvinced about the risk to LPR status here so long as you demonstrate your US ties and physical presence. What is more likely is that your province will come after you for getting free healthcare that you're not entitled to.

 

You will need to return to Canada to do your citizenship test, interview and take the Oath, so be prepared for that.

Wow! You have it all figured out.

 

A lot of what you said came up in my research and your confirmation solidified my confidence that this is correct.

 

I am prepared to give up my provincial healthcare . My concern arose from  indications in posts here on VJ that having a Canadian PR poses a risk to your US LPR. I agree with you that logically it shouldn’t matter so long as I maintain ties with and reside in the US.
 

Edited May 11, 2021 by From_CAN_2_US

[From_CAN_2_US 1,106]

47 minutes ago, Kai (CanadaDude) said:

**barring extended stays outside the US, not Canada...darn post edit timeout!

 

I will also add, some border officers get confused at double PR and might pressure you to renounce it, or threaten to revoke it. The CBSA has no authority to revoke your PR so long as you are in compliance with the residency obligation and you enter Canada by right in accordance with Sec. 27(1) of IRPA. Nor can CBP revoke your US PR, only an IJ can do that, and you will avoid that by demonstrating that you're living and working in the US.

This! This! This! This is what I am scared of - the CBP officers! I hope they won’t cause trouble just because of their own confusion about the legislation. 
 

Your conviction about it gives me confidence though! Thank you so much!

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

6 minutes ago, From_CAN_2_US said:

This! This! This! This is what I am scared of - the CBP officers! I hope they won’t cause trouble just because of their own confusion about the legislation. 
 

Your conviction about it gives me confidence though! Thank you so much!

CBP officers can be absolutely full of rubbish regarding what they think something is and what the law actually is, but as long as you're living/working in the US you should be good. Always good to carry proof of such when going over the border, additionally having a Nexus membership will help wave off some border scrutiny.

 

If they really press you on it...say that you applied for citizenship before gaining LPR and you didn't want to lose out on the fees.

 

I'll be continuing to work in Canada for a few days a week after my move to the US so I'm gonna be dealing with the border and double PR regularly. It's not as rare as you might think! Feel free to keep in touch and I can let you know how I get on.

[Daisy.Chain 317]

The US naturalization oath's first part says: 

 

" I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

 

It seems silly to become a Canadian citizen only to then turn around and "entirely renounce" it to become a US citizen.

 

 Imho you should make a choice.

 

 

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

2 hours ago, Daisy.Chain said:

The US naturalization oath's first part says: 

 

" I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

 

It seems silly to become a Canadian citizen only to then turn around and "entirely renounce" it to become a US citizen.

 

 Imho you should make a choice.

 

 

The renunciation in the US Oath of Allegiance has no legal effect, the US has no bar on multiple nationality. OP is legally free to pursue Canadian citizenship if/when they are eligible for it. Many people have personal reasons for wanting to maintain/gain a citizenship for a country they are moving out of...particularly if things don't work out in the new place they move to they are free to move back if they wish. The Canadian Government rightly acknowledged this and legally permits departing PR's to apply for citizenship.

 

OP, you do what's best for you.

 

Personally, I've spent three years in Canada and will continue to work here and maintain friendships here despite living in the US...I have affection and attachment to Canada just as much as I would with the US. Dual nationality makes perfect sense in these circumstances. They are not mutually exclusive.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Kai (CanadaDude)