Pros vs. Cons of US Citizenship

[Mike E 11,741]

2 minutes ago, RLA said:

My wife and I got a mortgage last fall.  I don't remember that my not being a citizen made any difference.

Well then. Don’t naturalize.  

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mike E

[RLA 324]

18 hours ago, aaron2020 said:

Getting US citizenship may result in losing foreign citizenship when those foreign countries do not allow for dual citizenship (China, Japan, etc.).

Germany is in that list too, although you can apply for a special waiver.  I won't apply for American citizenship unless Germany grant me that waiver.  Don't wanna be stuck here.

[millefleur 5,047]

16 hours ago, Mike E said:

Some customer related job tasks at some employers require "US Citizens on US soil".  As one of the few US citizens where I work, I get stuck with software bug troubleshooting while the non-citizens get to work on cool stuff. 

That's interesting. It seems to be the other way around in some cases? If you're a US citizen only you can get some super interesting tech job working with top secret stuff, but if you're just a green card holder (or even a US citizen but retain your original citizenship) you would never qualify for those top level government/military jobs. So, it seems like it can be the other way around too.

 

16 hours ago, Mike E said:

Presenting a green card upon returning to the USA is just easier than handing over a passport. 

Have to disagree with this. Green card holders can get more scrutiny at the border, especially if you're from a "non friendly country." As a US citizen, I've gone through customs with easy to and from Russia without ever being asked in detail what I was doing there. I've never been pulled into secondary or had my bags searched at customs. My husband on the other hand has been taken into secondary, they've scrutinized his reasons for coming and going (even despite the fact that he was traveling with me, a US citizen), he's been asked to turn his pockets inside out, he's had his bags searched and been treated skeptically like he was hiding something/being dishonest. Given what you wrote above about CBP officers hating LPR's, I would say entering the US with a US passport is way better experience than doing so with a green card. My husband is not a suspicious guy nor does he have any criminal record at all, so I can only attribute it to the "non-friendly country" aspect and also the prejudice against LPR's...not saying it happens to everyone, but the chance is much higher if you're an LPR vs a citizen.

 

 

[Ontarkie 14,324]

As mentioned above, estate laws can be ridiculous. I  know here in Arkansas if I was just a GC holder my husbands family could take everything we built together away from me. As it seems USC get first dibs over a GC wife/widow. I also wanted to make sure I was protected once we had kids. 

Growing up in a border town I knew many ppl who lived in Canada and worked in the US so filing taxes in two countries was the norm. 

[jimbrackets 2]

Customs and border security treat you like when you hold a green card, a little less so when you're an actual US citizen. May not matter if you don't travel.

[retheem 568]

20 hours ago, Nat & Mark said:

My husband has been debating whether to apply for Citizenship or not. I told him whatever he decides to do I will support him.

 

What would be the advantages of him applying for Citizenship and what would be the disadvantages?

 

Thank you in advance for advice and information!

After the demagogue that came into (Trump) started the shenanigans about discriminating immigrants including LPRs, are you still asking this question? Better safe than sorry. Apply away

[Mike E 11,741]

1 hour ago, millefleur said:

That's interesting. It seems to be the other way around in some cases? 

Yes, captured in the pro around security clearances.

Quote

My husband on the other hand has been taken into secondary, they've scrutinized his reasons for coming and going (even despite the fact that he was traveling with me, a US citizen), he's been asked to turn his pockets inside out, he's had his bags searched and been treated skeptically like he was hiding something/being dishonest. Given what you wrote above about CBP officers hating LPR's, I would say entering the US with a US passport is way better experience than doing so with a green card.

I'm not surprised either. The subject of the OP is a UK citizen though. I prefer to deal with a credit card sized document than a passport when returning to the USA.

 

To the dig in a previous comment about a previous administration, I will say this though, as an AP holder and then a green card holder, my wife (Burmese) has been treated with nothing but kindness by CBP even under President Trump. But she is far prettier than I am.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Mike E

[Tracey&Greg 35]

Didn't know how to really answer this other than what everyone else says but I just wanted to say hi!  My hubby is also British and we use to live in Birmingham (Hoover) for several years, since then moved down to Florida. But I still have family there..if you ever are in Florida I'll gladly offer you guys room & board in exchange for Milos lol

[millefleur 5,047]

**Moved from General Immigration-Related Discussion to US Citizenship General Discussion**

[Mike E 11,741]

1 hour ago, Ontarkie said:

As mentioned above, estate laws can be ridiculous. I  know here in Arkansas if I was just a GC holder my husbands family could take everything we built together away from me. As it seems USC get first dibs over a GC wife/widow.

I was intrigued by this, and dug around, FWIW, Nolo says the opposite:

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/intestate-succession-arkansas.html

 

 

Quote

Immigration status. Relatives entitled to an intestate share of your property will inherit whether or not they are citizens or legally in the United States.

 

1 hour ago, Ontarkie said:

 

I also wanted to make sure I was protected once we had kids. 

My quick perusal suggests that Arkansas has among the most widow/widower unfriendly laws for intestate estates. A surviving spouse can end up with as little as 1/3 of the deceased spouse's estate which is astonishing,

If you want protection, your spouse should have a will that leaves you everything.

This does remind me of another pro to US citizenship. Normally when a married person dies in the USA, the surviving spouse inherits without paying estate tax. Estate tax is deferred. But if the surving spouse is an alien, even an LPR, this deferral doesn't exist. And so estates in excess of the estate tax exemption inherited by the alien spouse are subject to estate tax. Back when estate tax started after a $600K exemption this was a real problem. These days, the exemption is over $5 million, and so I don't stress over it. There is a work around: a qualified domestic trust (QDOT).

 

However if you read the fine print of a QDOT (I had one with my first wife: a revocable living trust) is says that the trust administrator must be a US citizen.

 

And so if you had a QDOT for your marital assets, indeed someone else will have control of the assets you inherit from your spouse if you are not a citizen, which is certainly not ideal. 

 

http://gedeonlawcpa.com/beware-us-estate-tax-when-your-spouse-is-not-a-us-citizen/

With my second marriage we don't have a QDOT. 

 

[davidvs 354]

Since we are planning to retire to Thailand (in almost 20 years), it is very important to my wife that she will have US citizenship, as we will want to freely travel back to the US to visit family.

[Wouter 143]

I always thought that LPR and USC was very equivalent for people living and planning to stay in the US. I would probably become a USC at some point but there was no hurry. Virtually the same rights (except being able to vote) and obligations (serving on a Jury). That was until Covid happened while President Trump was in power. Suddenly a distinction was made for immigration (immigration visas for spouse of LRP was blocked but not blocked for spouse of USC). I thought, OK that is for immigration, but if you are inside the country there is still little difference. Then Trump tried to force students on F-1 visas who were already inside the US but who did not have in-person classes to leave. This was later reversed under pressure of the universities but this was the first time I saw an attempt to force non-citizens who were legally residing in the country to leave. Of course this is still several steps from LPRs but I suddenly could imagine that renewal of Green Cards could become an issue if for example unemployment would go high enough. I concluded that as long everything goes well and there is enough going around for everyone it doesn't make that much difference if you are a citizen or not. But when there is a crisis, when resources become scarce, when 'push comes to shove', I believe it will be citizens before non-citizens. (And we can debate whether that is actually reasonable or not, but it doesn't alter that this would be the case.) So this really made it clear for me; I better become a citizen when I can.

 

[Suudsu 66]

As good as 'voting and passports' are, I agree with other posters here that there are a lot of benefits beyond that.

 

My understanding is that there are differences in estate distribution to LPRs vs. citizens. Since estates are complex, I just consider spouses having shared assets, each leaving their estate to the other.

 

For federal estate taxes, you need to be quite wealthy for it to make a difference (leaving an estate in excess of $11.7M in 2021).

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/estate-planning-when-you-re-married-noncitizen.html

 

State-by-state, it varies a lot.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/estate-planning-your-state

 

Bring it up with a lawyer when making a will.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

8 hours ago, RLA said:

My wife and I got a mortgage last fall.  I don't remember that my not being a citizen made any difference.

Concur, hasn’t been an issue with us either

[Ontarkie 14,324]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

I was intrigued by this, and dug around, FWIW, Nolo says the opposite:

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/intestate-succession-arkansas.html

 

 

 

My quick perusal suggests that Arkansas has among the most widow/widower unfriendly laws for intestate estates. A surviving spouse can end up with as little as 1/3 of the deceased spouse's estate which is astonishing,

If you want protection, your spouse should have a will that leaves you everything.

This does remind me of another pro to US citizenship. Normally when a married person dies in the USA, the surviving spouse inherits without paying estate tax. Estate tax is deferred. But if the surving spouse is an alien, even an LPR, this deferral doesn't exist. And so estates in excess of the estate tax exemption inherited by the alien spouse are subject to estate tax. Back when estate tax started after a $600K exemption this was a real problem. These days, the exemption is over $5 million, and so I don't stress over it. There is a work around: a qualified domestic trust (QDOT).

 

However if you read the fine print of a QDOT (I had one with my first wife: a revocable living trust) is says that the trust administrator must be a US citizen.

 

And so if you had a QDOT for your marital assets, indeed someone else will have control of the assets you inherit from your spouse if you are not a citizen, which is certainly not ideal. 

 

http://gedeonlawcpa.com/beware-us-estate-tax-when-your-spouse-is-not-a-us-citizen/

With my second marriage we don't have a QDOT. 

 

It's crazy how it is here.