I-751 ROC--- Questions on presentation/content details

[InhaleExhale 28]

Hello,

I am preparing my I-751 packet.

Info upfront: my husband broke up with me in Feb last year after terminating our marriage therapy, and I moved out of the house a few months later. We are still legally married, neither of us has been wanting to deal with the divorce process , we have already separated joint assets, but still use our joint bank account, have joint health insurance, file taxes jointly, and have the same PO box.

As evidence I will submit: jointly filed tax returns, joint bank account statements, joint deed when we purchased our house (now its separate property), property tax bills in both our names, property insurance, joint purchases, a million utility bills in both our names, joint health insurance, photographs, social media screenshots, texts, emails, trip to Europe documentation, bills of marriage therapy, affidavits of friends.

 

QUESTIONS:

1. Both my husband and I will add a letter of explanation as to why the marital relationship didn't work out. How much in detail does it have to be? I assume it has to have a neutral tone to it? Which is so hard as I still feel so hurt 😕 

2. Our letters of explanation are different in some parts (his memory/perception is different than mine), is that an issue? For example I know his was still open to reconciliation up to a certain point but he now denies it...

3. Should I also add emails/texts of us arguing? As these are pretty private, how private does it have to be??

4. Should I include emails to us from our marriage therapist detailing our issues (very private😟) ?

5. As for utility bills for while we still lived together: I am missing a few months here and there, is that a problem, should I explain that?

6. Are bills/account statements supposed to start with the oldest first or newest first (I am adding all for the entire duration of our marriage)?

7. Some bills (health insurance) have 10 pages each, can I leave the irrelevant pages out, even though the pages each contain a counter like 'page 1 of 10'?

8. Can I use a highlighter to mark both our names on bills so the officer has an easier time to spot them?

9. When describing photographs, does it matter if I write from third person or subjectively or a mix of both, as in "he and I at the zoo" and "Joe and Jill at the zoo"?

10. I have tons of evidence of our mailing address (PO box) be the same, does it still make sense to add copies of our drivers licenses showing that same address?

11. Is it wise to include request to have the interview waived in the cover letter or does it come across pushy? For example "Pursuant to 8 CFR §216.4(b)(1) as well as Policy Memorandum PM-602-0168 (Nov 30, 2018) and in consideration of the enclosed evidence we respectfully request that the interview requirement be waived."

Thanks so much for any inputs you have ❤️ 

[Crazy Cat 42,035]

On what basis are you going to submit the I-751?  Joint? Divorce waiver?  Is he even willing to attend the interview?  

Edited April 18, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[Villanelle 4,122]

Are you divorced yet? I do remember your thread from last summer where a lot of scenarios were explained to you. If you are going to be sending a joint ROC (because you are still legally married and he wants to file it with you) then you can- BUT you must disclose somewhere in it that you are currently separated. You will almost 100% have an interview if that is how you are filing. He must attend the interview and be supportive. Because you stated there are  'differences in opinion' on how things broke down - I would not recommend filing jointly. You need to have 100% trust in your former or soon to be former partner to file joint ROC when separated. People have done it, its not a problem of whether its 'allowed' or not- the problem is when filing jointly the petition is both of yours. They will take into account things he says. He can change his mind from being amicable to being difficult during the very long time it takes ROC to process- and if he does then what? Where if you file a divorce waiver he has 0 input in it. Of course you can open the window for them to speak to him by submitting a statement from him in your divorce waiver package, but again I would advise against such if you are not on the best terms right now. 

 

Divorce can be hard. Dont make it harder by delaying it if its been decided. It seems you have already separated your assets which is usually the hardest part for people- so its just a matter of paperwork.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Villanelle

[InhaleExhale 28]

19 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

On what basis are you going to submit the I-751?  Joint? Divorce waiver?  Is he even willing to attend the interview?  

Joint filing, yes, he said he would attend the interview. And omg I hope he does if we get invited.

[InhaleExhale 28]

31 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

Are you divorced yet? I do remember your thread from last summer where a lot of scenarios were explained to you. If you are going to be sending a joint ROC (because you are still legally married and he wants to file it with you) then you can- BUT you must disclose somewhere in it that you are currently separated. You will almost 100% have an interview if that is how you are filing. He must attend the interview and be supportive. Because you stated there are  'differences in opinion' on how things broke down - I would not recommend filing jointly. You need to have 100% trust in your former or soon to be former partner to file joint ROC when separated. People have done it, its not a problem of whether its 'allowed' or not- the problem is when filing jointly the petition is both of yours. They will take into account things he says. He can change his mind from being amicable to being difficult during the very long time it takes ROC to process- and if he does then what? Where if you file a divorce waiver he has 0 input in it. Of course you can open the window for them to speak to him by submitting a statement from him in your divorce waiver package, but again I would advise against such if you are not on the best terms right now. 

 

Divorce can be hard. Dont make it harder by delaying it if its been decided. It seems you have already separated your assets which is usually the hardest part for people- so its just a matter of paperwork.

We are not divorced, as mentioned in my initial post....

Yes, i went by the guidance of the responses I received last summer, where I understood it is ok to do as it feels right, which was/is: neither him nor me wants to do the divorce process now if it can be postponed bc it's too daunting emotionally...so I understood filing jointly is ok as long as he signs the petition and attends the interview which he said he would.

Honestly to me divorce is not just paperwork, it may be physically just that but emotionally its very painful even if it's just a piece of paper and even if it may be already decided for some point in the future...

Also, at this point it would take me at least 7 months (likely longer) from now to even get the divorce decree if we do the divorce now...that wouldn't be enough time to get it to USCIS within the 87 days they give once they send an RFE...

 

Yes, absolutely, I will fully disclose that we are separated, that I have moved and everything. I also filed the change of address with USCIS the day after I moved out.

I will be mentioning our separation in the cover letter as well as both our letters of explanation are describing it, also the marriage therapy documentation does.

 

The differences in opinions are:

- I am stating that he was open to possible reconciliation up until summer 2020.

- He is stating that when he broke up with me in Feb 2020 that that was his point of no return.

 

So the only difference is that he states it was the end for him in Feb 2020 and I am stating that he indicated to be open till about early fall 2020 (I do have emails on this, not sure if that matters). Otherwise we are stating the same things surrounding our separation. I guess its best not to make a big point out of his verbal abuse incident bc he will deny it and USCIS maybe won't even care...

Point is: he already wrote his letter, it is very neutral and pretty much factually correct as in dates, problems ect.

 

Do you think his different memory on openness to reconciliation would be an issue as long as all other dates are correct?

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by InhaleExhale

[InhaleExhale 28]

1 hour ago, Villanelle said:

Of course you can open the window for them to speak to him by submitting a statement from him in your divorce waiver package, but again I would advise against such if you are not on the best terms right now. 

Was this in response to my question "11. Is it wise to include request to have the interview waived in the cover letter or does it come across pushy? For example "Pursuant to 8 CFR §216.4(b)(1) as well as Policy Memorandum PM-602-0168 (Nov 30, 2018) and in consideration of the enclosed evidence we respectfully request that the interview requirement be waived."?

 

This question was aimed at being included in the cover letter NOT of a divorce waiver package but a joint filing package...would that be ok in there? I do think we have plenty of evidence that we did enter into our marriage in good faith and did try to fix it but failed.

[mindthegap 2,599]

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

QUESTIONS:

1. Both my husband and I will add a letter of explanation as to why the marital relationship didn't work out. How much in detail does it have to be? I assume it has to have a neutral tone to it? Which is so hard as I still feel so hurt 😕 

Factual, and truthful, but without being too elaborate. Less is more. They know that statistically marriages don't work out. 

They aren't assessing the marriage - they are assessing YOUR intent (not his) to create a life together and that it was a genuine marriage not entered into for the purposes of circumventing or evading immigration law. 

 

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

2. Our letters of explanation are different in some parts (his memory/perception is different than mine), is that an issue? For example I know his was still open to reconciliation up to a certain point but he now denies it...

They are entirely subjective, so to a point, not really. 

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

3. Should I also add emails/texts of us arguing? As these are pretty private, how private does it have to be??

For my most recent filing I put in screenshots of my former spouse messaging her drug dealer, so sure.. if you think it will help build up a picture of the state of the relationship it may help. 

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

4. Should I include emails to us from our marriage therapist detailing our issues (very private😟) ?

Whatever you feel comfortable sharing. The very existence of proof of marriage therapy would arguably be sufficient - you can censor appropriately.

Again, they aren't adjudicating the marriage and there is no requirement to share intimate details. 

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

5. As for utility bills for while we still lived together: I am missing a few months here and there, is that a problem, should I explain that?

Yes

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

6. Are bills/account statements supposed to start with the oldest first or newest first (I am adding all for the entire duration of our marriage)?

 

Newest first makes sense don't you think?

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

7. Some bills (health insurance) have 10 pages each, can I leave the irrelevant pages out, even though the pages each contain a counter like 'page 1 of 10'?

Unless you are low on ink or paper just print the whole thing - double sided if neccessary.

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

8. Can I use a highlighter to mark both our names on bills so the officer has an easier time to spot them?

Yes.

But be aware that they scan them in, and highlighters don't scan properly if at all - I can clearly see the result of in my FOIA response - all the highlights I put on bills and stuff is not visible AT ALL.

So, with that in mind that they may be viewing the originals or scans, best to circle/underline/arrow as well. 

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

9. When describing photographs, does it matter if I write from third person or subjectively or a mix of both, as in "he and I at the zoo" and "Joe and Jill at the zoo"?

Not sure it really matters - as long as they can identify you both.

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

10. I have tons of evidence of our mailing address (PO box) be the same, does it still make sense to add copies of our drivers licenses showing that same address?

Yes

 

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

11. Is it wise to include request to have the interview waived in the cover letter or does it come across pushy? For example "Pursuant to 8 CFR §216.4(b)(1) as well as Policy Memorandum PM-602-0168 (Nov 30, 2018) and in consideration of the enclosed evidence we respectfully request that the interview requirement be waived."

 

No. Not in any way wise. It has nothing to do with you - that is up to them. 

I know i've been doing too much of this....as I immediately knew which memorandum you were quoting just from the PM number 😑 as I quoted chunks of that vert memorandum in a recent motion. 

 

 

 

I also have to say I think @Villanelle is speaking sense here....all you need is for it to turn ugly, false allegations made and you end up in the situation I have found myself in for the past six years.

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by mindthegap

[InhaleExhale 28]

1 hour ago, mindthegap said:

3 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

6. Are bills/account statements supposed to start with the oldest first or newest first (I am adding all for the entire duration of our marriage)?

 

Newest first makes sense don't you think?

Actually I would have done 'oldest first'  As in from past to present sort of thing...

I will do newest first then.

 

What about photographs/social media screenshots, texts ect. - those I have created a few multi-page-pdf's off of like a compilation, and always started with the oldest first...(I hope I don't have to redo it, took me ages lol)?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, mindthegap said:

I also have to say I think @Villanelle is speaking sense here....all you need is for it to turn ugly, false allegations made and you end up in the situation I have found myself in for the past six years.

Oy, what a nightmare! (I know OT: Did your state reps not assist?)

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, mindthegap said:

 

3 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

11. Is it wise to include request to have the interview waived in the cover letter or does it come across pushy? For example "Pursuant to 8 CFR §216.4(b)(1) as well as Policy Memorandum PM-602-0168 (Nov 30, 2018) and in consideration of the enclosed evidence we respectfully request that the interview requirement be waived."

 

No. Not in any way wise. It has nothing to do with you - that is up to them. 

I know i've been doing too much of this....as I immediately knew which memorandum you were quoting just from the PM number 😑 as I quoted chunks of that vert memorandum in a recent motion. 

What do you mean by "too much"..as in it was received as bossy/pushy by whoever read it rather than citing applicable policy and showing you are somewhat informed?

 

 

[mindthegap 2,599]

23 minutes ago, InhaleExhale said:

 

What do you mean by "too much"..as in it was received as bossy/pushy by whoever read it rather than citing applicable policy and showing you are somewhat informed?

 

 

No, by ‘too much’ I meant I’ve been doing too much of this damn immigration stuff recently (due to my recent case updates) as I know policy memorandums by heart at this point 😂

 

Regarding putting that, I would not, as you have no say or influence on the matter. It does come across as a little pushy yes - correct or otherwise. They will waive it if they feel the evidence provided merits that.  

[InhaleExhale 28]

1 hour ago, InhaleExhale said:

2 hours ago, mindthegap said:

5 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

6. Are bills/account statements supposed to start with the oldest first or newest first (I am adding all for the entire duration of our marriage)?

 

Newest first makes sense don't you think?

Actually I would have done 'oldest first'  As in from past to present sort of thing...

I will do newest first then.

 

What about photographs/social media screenshots, texts ect. - those I have created a few multi-page-pdf's off of like a compilation, and always started with the oldest first...(I hope I don't have to redo it, took me ages lol)?

Could you comment on this, too :)? Newest first for photos/texts, too .... 🥴? (pls say no lol)

Edited April 18, 2021 by InhaleExhale

[Letspaintcookies 2,310]

2 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

Could you comment on this, too :)? Newest first for photos/texts, too .... 🥴? (pls say no lol)

Nobody cares about the order of your photos or bills as long as they're in a row. Start with the newest or the oldest. It really doesn't matter 😉😊

[InhaleExhale 28]

2 hours ago, Letspaintcookies said:

Nobody cares about the order of your photos or bills as long as they're in a row. Start with the newest or the oldest. It really doesn't matter 😉😊

Good to know, thank you :)!

[Nitas_man 3,100]

You have, I believe, two choices.

 

A divorce waiver, or demonstration of marital bliss.

 

This seems to be neither.  Not sure this interview request thing will work out.

 

Please expect this to be long and painful.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by Nitas_man

[Nitas_man 3,100]

17 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

Joint filing, yes, he said he would attend the interview. And omg I hope he does if we get invited.

Your package if attached to a divorce waiver is a really good one.

 

I dont see this ending well if you guys don’t go ahead and cut ties and move on.

 

[InhaleExhale 28]

3 hours ago, Nitas_man said:

You have, I believe, two choices.

 

A divorce waiver, or demonstration of marital bliss.

 

This seems to be neither.  Not sure this interview request thing will work out.

 

Please expect this to be long and painful.  

That sounds terrifying. What is your suggestion in this case? If I start divorce proceedings now I may only get the decree in 7 months from now - at the earliest that is...possibly much much later. USCIS will want the decree within 87 days after they send their RFE. I will definitely not have it by then. They may deny the case and send me a NTA. 

Setting the emotional part aside, how would it still make sense to start the divorce now, at this point in time?