Fully vaccinated Biden wearing 2 masks.

[Neonred 3,632]

56 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  IIRC, 75 vaccinated people have died of Covid to date. There is no way for that to happen that does not entail "carrying the virus".

 

  

That seems really good.  We know that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 94-95 % effective, so out of how many million people vaccinated, we should expect an even larger number of folks getting covid, and of course some will succumb.

 

These vaccines have been incredibly effective, but know that at least 5% of people vaccinated should get sick.  The numbers, of course, will be worse with the J&J vaccine.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

23 minutes ago, Neonred said:

That seems really good.  We know that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 94-95 % effective, so out of how many million people vaccinated, we should expect an even larger number of folks getting covid, and of course some will succumb.

 

These vaccines have been incredibly effective, but know that at least 5% of people vaccinated should get sick.  The numbers, of course, will be worse with the J&J vaccine.

 

    Right, but it does raise the issue that there is no way of being sure who those 5% of people are and why they haven't developed an immune response. Short of testing everyone to see if they have made antibodies. 

 

  Vaccinated people, even with a good immune response, are still capable of spreading the virus. Obviously it would be much less significant than unvaccinated people, but my experience is there will be a small window between where someone contracts a virus and when the immune system eradicates it. People can still shed virus during that time frame. We already know that happens with flu virus. I'm not sure why they would think Covid would be different. 

 

 

 

[Dashinka 24,732]

7 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Right, but it does raise the issue that there is no way of being sure who those 5% of people are and why they haven't developed an immune response. Short of testing everyone to see if they have made antibodies. 

 

  Vaccinated people, even with a good immune response, are still capable of spreading the virus. Obviously it would be much less significant than unvaccinated people, but my experience is there will be a small window between where someone contracts a virus and when the immune system eradicates it. People can still shed virus during that time frame. We already know that happens with flu virus. I'm not sure why they would think Covid would be different. 

 

 

 

You brought up the flu virus, are we changing how we will respond to that by using shut-downs, perpetual mask wearing, etc. even with a vaccine that is far less than 95% effective?

[Neonred 3,632]

8 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Right, but it does raise the issue that there is no way of being sure who those 5% of people are and why they haven't developed an immune response. Short of testing everyone to see if they have made antibodies. 

 

  Vaccinated people, even with a good immune response, are still capable of spreading the virus. Obviously it would be much less significant than unvaccinated people, but my experience is there will be a small window between where someone contracts a virus and when the immune system eradicates it. People can still shed virus during that time frame. We already know that happens with flu virus. I'm not sure why they would think Covid would be different. 

 

 

 

Back to the original question.  At what point in the vaccination efforts of this country do we say that masking is no longer needed?  I think it has been implied that when we reach 70+% vaccinated and/or recovered from Covid we can begin to return to "normal", that is to say removing the masks.

 

And let's not forget that the director of the CDC suggested that vaccinated people do not carry the Covid virus!

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, Neonred said:

Back to the original question.  At what point in the vaccination efforts of this country do we say that masking is no longer needed?  I think it has been implied that when we reach 70+% vaccinated and/or recovered from Covid we can begin to return to "normal", that is to say removing the masks.

 

 

 

   The 70% figure would refer to herd immunity, probably a good target for ending mandatory mask policies. At that point, the ability of the virus to spread should be significantly diminished. I don't have an issue with voluntary mask use if people want to. We shouldn't really knock it. It's obvious at this point that masks help decrease viral transmission, so if someone wants to do that, it's not an issue for me. 

 

2 hours ago, Neonred said:

 

And let's not forget that the director of the CDC suggested that vaccinated people do not carry the Covid virus!

 

  If that is the case, it would make Covid-19 different from almost every other respiratory virus in existence. There is not a lot of data yet, but it will likely show the same thing we see with influenza. The vaccine will significantly decrease transmission, make illness less severe, and prevent the most severe forms of illness. A vaccine doesn't stop people from contracting a virus, it primes their immune system to fight the virus off rapidly. Symptoms are decreased, recovery is much quicker, and it minimizes the amount of virus replicated and shed, but it doesn't necessarily eliminate that process from happening.

 

  The best case is still for as many people as possible to get the vaccine. Combining decreased transmission and enhanced ability to fight off the virus is what ultimately could decrease the ability of the virus to spread to the point where it (hopefully) stops circulating completely.

[Neonred 3,632]

3 hours ago, Neonred said:

 

 

And let's not forget that the director of the CDC suggested that vaccinated people do not carry the Covid virus!

Those were her words, not mine.

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

3 hours ago, Neonred said:

Back to the original question.  At what point in the vaccination efforts of this country do we say that masking is no longer needed?  I think it has been implied that when we reach 70+% vaccinated and/or recovered from Covid we can begin to return to "normal", that is to say removing the masks.

 

And let's not forget that the director of the CDC suggested that vaccinated people do not carry the Covid virus!

The original "question" was paraphrasing: how hilarious is this clip of Biden wearing two masks?

 

Not hilarious at all IMO. The president needs to lead by example and he was in a face to face meeting with a foreign head of state...it was a demonstration of leadership and role modeling. Plus, what he said in the clip sounded intelligent. 

 

As far as when we can stop wearing masks, I don't know how to debate that question. I don't have the skills, the data or the background,

but I do know who I will, and will not, listen to as we move forward.

Edited April 18, 2021 by CanAm1980

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Neonred said:

Those were her words, not mine.

 

  Indeed, I understand that, and what I posted were my own words. I'm pretty confident if the CDC director is asked to explain her take in the context of how the immune system actually works, she would have to clarify her statement a bit better. 

 

  Below is some of the information from the CDC's page on Covid-19 vaccination. This information appears to be written by a person or group who wanted to give a more accurate portrayal of how the vaccination actually works. 

 

  

Quote

• A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others. However, further investigation is ongoing.
• Modeling studies suggest that preventive measures such as mask use and social distancing will continue to be important during vaccine implementation. However, there are ways to take a balanced approach by allowing vaccinated people to resume some lower-risk activities.
• Taking steps towards relaxing certain measures for vaccinated people may help improve COVID-19 vaccine acceptance and uptake.
• The risks of SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others. However, the benefits of relaxing some measures such as testing and self-quarantine requirements for travelers, post-exposure quarantine requirements and reducing social isolation may outweigh the residual risk of fully vaccinated people becoming ill with COVID-19 or transmitting the virus to others.

 

[Neonred 3,632]

6 hours ago, CanAm1980 said:

 

but I do know who I will, and will not, listen to as we move forward.

Biden, right?

Edited April 18, 2021 by Neonred

[TBoneTX 45,918]

"You're even more at risk of Great Bodily Death after you've had the vaccine, which is why you should get it anyway and why I'm wearing 15 masks even after I got it."

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

10 minutes ago, Neonred said:

Biden, right?

The doctors and public health officials.

[yuna628 9,700]

It is my humble opinion, based on testing many different mask prototypes and patterns, that many people still continue to wear ill fitting masks. Why? Because everyone's face is different and what is available for purchase doesn't always work well. Putting two masks on, a Biden as wearing is not a bad idea. He doesn't always wear two masks, btw... and I've seen other people in the administration that also have really poorly fitting ones that also could stand to stick two on. The mask he's wearing underneath isn't a typical one he usually wears. In this situation he's in a close contact room and I can't tell what it is he's got on there, but I've seen plenty of doctors wear something similar. You dress the plain ugly mask up with a patterned or plain print. It's not just about optics though, but having two different shaped masks crossed like that puts a better fit onto the face (though I'd argue it's still not fitting him so great). You can actually get the same effect by making a mask with the same shape as wearing two and having plenty of layers/filtration in between. When it properly fits, it's amazing. Double masking is supposedly recommended if it will only improve the fit and protection. It's not about putting as much on as possible. It needs to fit well and be the correct material.

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

It is my humble opinion, based on testing many different mask prototypes and patterns, that many people still continue to wear ill fitting masks. Why? Because everyone's face is different and what is available for purchase doesn't always work well. Putting two masks on, a Biden as wearing is not a bad idea. He doesn't always wear two masks, btw... and I've seen other people in the administration that also have really poorly fitting ones that also could stand to stick two on. The mask he's wearing underneath isn't a typical one he usually wears. In this situation he's in a close contact room and I can't tell what it is he's got on there, but I've seen plenty of doctors wear something similar. You dress the plain ugly mask up with a patterned or plain print. It's not just about optics though, but having two different shaped masks crossed like that puts a better fit onto the face (though I'd argue it's still not fitting him so great). You can actually get the same effect by making a mask with the same shape as wearing two and having plenty of layers/filtration in between. When it properly fits, it's amazing. Double masking is supposedly recommended if it will only improve the fit and protection. It's not about putting as much on as possible. It needs to fit well and be the correct material.

Any mask that attaches to the ears is by definition ill fitting. I was at the local hardware and they had n95 masks that attached to the ears, not a thing. 

[Dashinka 24,732]

12 hours ago, CanAm1980 said:

The doctors and public health officials.

Which ones?

[TBoneTX 45,918]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:02 PM, Lucky Cat said:

Why not wear 3, 4 or 5 masks?

Because that would be 3, 4, or 5 more masks than brain cells that he has left.