What is the US for residence purposes?

[commocean 9]

Once getting my wife her green card she has to be in the US for 3 years before applying for a passport.  Does that include living in Puerto Rico? The US Virgin Islands?  What about aboard a US documented vessel?

[aaron2020 11,651]

If you've been married for less than 2 years when she gets her green card, it will be a conditional green card which requires filing for Removal of Condition.  After 3 years of having a green card, she would need to file for naturalization.  If she successfully passes her naturalization and becomes a US citizen, then she can file for a US passport. 

Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Island are part of the US.  Physical presence in those two places counts for being in the US. 

A US documented vessel is not US territory.  It's a vehicle; like a car - being inside a US registered car in Canada means you're in Canada and not the US.  It depends on where that vessel is - US waters, international waters, or foreign waters.

[commocean 9]

Thank you for you fast reply!
Whereas your answer about the use of a documented vessel may, or may not, be ultimately right, I disagree with the reasoning. A car has a state registration.  It can't be documented except, perhaps, if it belongs to an embassy.  I don't really know.  A documented vessel can be taken for use by the national government during time of emergency.  The most notable examples are Dunkirk, when hundreds of private yachts ferried troops back to safety, or during the Falklands war when a cruise ship (QEII?) was commandeered to take troops to war.  My friend served in the merchant marine during WWII on a private cargo ship.  Governments can't take cars or non documented vessels. So there is a difference documentation entails.  The reason this occurred to me is a friend claims to know a woman who got Immigration to accept her time on her husbands documented yacht as proof of US residence.  I believe it boils down to this:  These are guidelines and it has to be shown to the official how this is evidence of a desire to live in the US and be an American citizen.  I may be wrong.  As a longshot, though, I'm curious if anyone has experience pertinent to this.  Due to the Chinese virus restrictions we can't get back to the US for another year or two but would like to start the clock ticking. 

I do appreciate your answer.

[Boiler 45,517]

Government can take what they want and Dunkirk was not quite like that but we digress.

 

I for one did not realise that US fagged vessels allowed you to keep your US domicile when outside territorial waters, certainly be interested in any ink to this.

[aaron2020 11,651]

1 hour ago, commocean said:

Thank you for you fast reply!
Whereas your answer about the use of a documented vessel may, or may not, be ultimately right, I disagree with the reasoning. A car has a state registration.  It can't be documented except, perhaps, if it belongs to an embassy.  I don't really know.  A documented vessel can be taken for use by the national government during time of emergency.  The most notable examples are Dunkirk, when hundreds of private yachts ferried troops back to safety, or during the Falklands war when a cruise ship (QEII?) was commandeered to take troops to war.  My friend served in the merchant marine during WWII on a private cargo ship.  Governments can't take cars or non documented vessels. So there is a difference documentation entails.  The reason this occurred to me is a friend claims to know a woman who got Immigration to accept her time on her husbands documented yacht as proof of US residence.  I believe it boils down to this:  These are guidelines and it has to be shown to the official how this is evidence of a desire to live in the US and be an American citizen.  I may be wrong.  As a longshot, though, I'm curious if anyone has experience pertinent to this.  Due to the Chinese virus restrictions we can't get back to the US for another year or two but would like to start the clock ticking. 

I do appreciate your answer.

Rock on.  Your life, your choice.  

 

 

[commocean 9]

55 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Government can take what they want and Dunkirk was not quite like that but we digress.

 

I for one did not realise that US fagged vessels allowed you to keep your US domicile when outside territorial waters, certainly be interested in any ink to this.

I'm trying to make sense of what you said.  What do you mean Dunkirk wasn't like that?  I know people whose boats were requisitioned by the Royal Navy.  I knew my US Documented vessels could be requisitioned by the US Government.  That's one of the pros and cons of the documentation process.  It's quasi US property. (That's why I asked my question.) So if someone takes a US Documented vessel the US Government can go after them.  Can the US Government take any private property?  Not legally.  That's why we have courts.  
I don't know what you're trying to say here: "I for one did not realise that US fagged (sic) vessels allowed you to keep your US domicile when outside territorial waters, ..."  Thousands of Americans own homes in the US as well as documented vessels at home and abroad.  I did.  Domicile can be your legal residence or simply the place you intend to return to when away.

[Boiler 45,517]

 

[Boiler 45,517]

Your mention of being on a US flagged vessel constitutes US residency.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Boiler

[mushroomspore 3,044]

11 hours ago, commocean said:

Thank you for you fast reply!
Whereas your answer about the use of a documented vessel may, or may not, be ultimately right, I disagree with the reasoning. A car has a state registration.  It can't be documented except, perhaps, if it belongs to an embassy.  I don't really know.  A documented vessel can be taken for use by the national government during time of emergency.  The most notable examples are Dunkirk, when hundreds of private yachts ferried troops back to safety, or during the Falklands war when a cruise ship (QEII?) was commandeered to take troops to war.  My friend served in the merchant marine during WWII on a private cargo ship.  Governments can't take cars or non documented vessels. So there is a difference documentation entails.  The reason this occurred to me is a friend claims to know a woman who got Immigration to accept her time on her husbands documented yacht as proof of US residence.  I believe it boils down to this:  These are guidelines and it has to be shown to the official how this is evidence of a desire to live in the US and be an American citizen.  I may be wrong.  As a longshot, though, I'm curious if anyone has experience pertinent to this.  Due to the Chinese virus restrictions we can't get back to the US for another year or two but would like to start the clock ticking. 

I do appreciate your answer.

Seems risky and unlikely to succeed. US embassies and consulates in other countries are considered as being on US soil. It doesn't seem like a US documented vessel is necessarily the same as "being on US soil" or "in the US/US territories." If you can find the statute or code that explicitly does say that US registered vessels count as being on US soil, maybe there's a chance. But otherwise it seems like a bad gamble. Besides, the last thing you want at the N400 interview is to aggravate the IO. It's not about your beliefs or what you think the reasoning is; it's about USCIS and DHS' requirements on residency. They list specific exceptions regarding residency and physical presence right here: https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/continuous-residence-and-physical-presence-requirements-for-naturalization

Edited April 8, 2021 by mushroomspore

[SteveInBostonI130 3,453]

12 hours ago, commocean said:

Thank you for you fast reply!
Whereas your answer about the use of a documented vessel may, or may not, be ultimately right, I disagree with the reasoning. A car has a state registration.  It can't be documented except, perhaps, if it belongs to an embassy.  I don't really know.  A documented vessel can be taken for use by the national government during time of emergency.  The most notable examples are Dunkirk, when hundreds of private yachts ferried troops back to safety, or during the Falklands war when a cruise ship (QEII?) was commandeered to take troops to war.  My friend served in the merchant marine during WWII on a private cargo ship.  Governments can't take cars or non documented vessels. So there is a difference documentation entails.  The reason this occurred to me is a friend claims to know a woman who got Immigration to accept her time on her husbands documented yacht as proof of US residence.  I believe it boils down to this:  These are guidelines and it has to be shown to the official how this is evidence of a desire to live in the US and be an American citizen.  I may be wrong.  As a longshot, though, I'm curious if anyone has experience pertinent to this.  Due to the Chinese virus restrictions we can't get back to the US for another year or two but would like to start the clock ticking. 

I do appreciate your answer.

 

If on board a US government vessel, then yes.  If on board a private boat, then no.  Those are actually registered in a state, just like cars are.  If on a US flagged vessel, then it depends if the ship is part of a Ready Reserve force (of mostly cargo ships).  If just a US registered/flagged vessle, then no.  The company that runs the ship have to observe US laws for the crew onboard, but the crew's actual residency status is vague when outside US waters.  They are definitely out of US juristiction when stepping off the ship in foreign ports.  But onboard they are in status like at the international terminals at airports.  The person is not in the country officially, but are subject to the laws of that country for enforcement.

 

https://maritime.dot.gov/about-us/frequently-asked-questions

 

I believe you are referring to this about the government's ability to commandeer a ship during wartime:

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/82

 

But you have the wrong information.  That code allows the President to commandeer ship production, not actual privately owned vessels.  Both your examples are of British situations, and US law differs from British law.

[igoyougoduke 1,656]

13 hours ago, commocean said:

Once getting my wife her green card she has to be in the US for 3 years before applying for a passport.  Does that include living in Puerto Rico? The US Virgin Islands?  What about aboard a US documented vessel?

Highly doubt you wil convince the US  government when on a document vessel idea. 

[JonSeattle 202]

I don't know if time aboard a US documented vessel counts as time towards citizenship, but it is not as outlandish as it first seems:

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/8103

 

"(2) An individual not required by this subsection to be a citizen of the United States may be engaged only if the individual has a declaration of intention to become a citizen of the United States or other evidence of admission to the United States for permanent residence. An alien may be employed only in the steward’s department of the passenger vessel."

 

That provision would not make a lot of sense unless the time spent counted towards the citizenship requirement. But it could mean that would be time as an employee, not a cruise passenger.

 

[commocean 9]

1 hour ago, mushroomspore said:

Seems risky and unlikely to succeed. US embassies and consulates in other countries are considered as being on US soil. It doesn't seem like a US documented vessel is necessarily the same as "being on US soil" or "in the US/US territories." If you can find the statute or code that explicitly does say that US registered vessels count as being on US soil, maybe there's a chance. But otherwise it seems like a bad gamble. Besides, the last thing you want at the N400 interview is to aggravate the IO. It's not about your beliefs or what you think the reasoning is; it's about USCIS and DHS' requirements on residency. They list specific exceptions regarding residency and physical presence right here: https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/continuous-residence-and-physical-presence-requirements-for-naturalization

Thank you for your opinion.  You may well be right  It seems risky.  What's the down side?  Come back after some more years?  I believe, perhaps wrongly, that these are guidelines.  A good selling job that my wife wants to be a citizen may be what's needed.

[Boiler 45,517]

Maintaining her permanent residency seems a more pressing issue.

[mushroomspore 3,044]

13 minutes ago, commocean said:

Thank you for your opinion.  You may well be right  It seems risky.  What's the down side?  Come back after some more years?  I believe, perhaps wrongly, that these are guidelines.  A good selling job that my wife wants to be a citizen may be what's needed.

Downside would be getting all the way to the N400 interview and then being denied because the IO (and potentially even their supervisor, if it escalates to that point) does not appreciate being told by an applicant or applicant's spouse, "Well I think these 'requirements' of yours are really just flexible guidelines and I believe that my wife has met the residency and physical presence requirements." Your previous comment discusses how US registered vessels belong to the US federal government, but as I stated, that is not equal to that vessel being equal to being on US soil. Those are two different things and it is ultimately what really matters here since USCIS counts how many days a permanent resident has been inside the US/on US soil to count towards citizenship. Note that the USCIS policy uses the word "requirements", NOT the word "guidelines". If you really want zero problems, take USCIS' policies as literally as possible. As I said before, if you can find the exact statute or law code that explicitly says, "Being on a US registered vessel is equal to being on US soil", this plan is unlikely to succeed. I'm not quite sure what you mean by your last sentence, but my interpretation is that you are saying you just need to do a good job of selling the idea that your wife wants to become a US citizen. That is not enough to be granted citizenship. You MUST meet the physical presence REQUIREMENTS and pass the tests as well. If a good pitch is all that's needed to become a citizen, that's what we would all be doing. But as aaron2020 said, it's also your life, your choice.

Edited April 8, 2021 by mushroomspore