DS-260 Confusion: Syrian of Palestinian Origin

[troodon 0]

My wife is a joint sponsor of a man who is applying to come to the U.S. from Syria, with his wife and children, and will be having an interview scheduled (in Jordan, since the embassy in Syria is closed). He's having trouble with the DS-260. He is from Syria, but is of Palestinian origin. He was born in Syria and has been there his whole life, but Syria doesn't grant citizenship to Palestinians. His travel document is therefore a special sort of passport that Syria grants to the Palestinians in their country, but is not a mark of Syrian citizenship. His parents were born in what is now Israel, but before the establishment of the Israel in 1948. His children were born in Syria, but are not considered Syrians either. Only his wife is Syrian (she is our connection, since his wife and my wife are sisters. We've known the man for 20 years.).

 

His mother is the petitioner, but doesn't make enough money to fulfill the sponsor requirement. His siblings and mother all received U.S. citizenship 15 years ago, but for some reason his application never went through, and the US-citizen uncle who did it for them is no longer available.

 

Sorry for the long intro, but the questions for the DS-260 are:

 

1. What country of origin does he put for himself?

 

2. What country of region does he put for his parents?

 

He says that there is a list of stateless countries/regions on the form, but apparently Palestine isn't on the list.

 

Thanks for any input, it's pretty confusing. 😦

Edited April 4, 2021 by troodon

[troodon 0]

After more research, I think he's likely to be considered "stateless," as per this article, which contains the following text (he's in the first category):

Quote

 

Today more than half of the eight million or so Palestinians are considered to be de jure stateless persons. These fall broadly into three categories:

• holders of the ‘Refugee Travel Document’ (RTD) issued by Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq and some other Arab countries
• holders of nationalities of convenience – mainly temporary Jordanian passports
• holders of the Palestinian passport issued by the Palestinian Authority (PA) which is considered as a travel document pending formation of a fully-fledged Palestinian state.

 

However, he still doesn't know what he should list for his parents' birthplace. For now, he's putting "Palestine" for State/Province and checking the "Do Not Know" box for Country/Region. He could put "Israel" for country, but Israel wasn't a country yet when his parents were born. Maybe it doesn't matter, I don't know. Hoping someone can help!

 

 

 

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

If he was born in Syria then Syria is the birthplace. The US is aware that not all countries grant citizenship according to place of birth, nationality is a separate issue from place of birth.

 

The US is complicated but  clear about how to list place of birth for actual Palestine (not Palestinian nationality born elsewhere) depending on time frame of birth.

 

8 FAM 403.4-4  UNUSUAL CIRCUMSTANCES REGARDING POB

8 FAM 403.4-4(A)  Israel, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, Jerusalem, and the West Bank

(CT:CITZ-42;   11-09-2020)

a. Golan Heights:  Per Presidential Proclamation on March 25, 2019, U.S. policy recognizes the Golan Heights as part of Israel.  The POB for applicants born in the Golan Heights is ISRAEL.

b. U.S. policy recognizes that Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip are territories whose final status must be determined by negotiations.  As stated in the President's December 6, 2017 Jerusalem Proclamation, the United States recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and its seat of government but continues to take no position on the boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem. The final boundaries of sovereignty in Jerusalem remain subject to final status negotiation between the two Parties.

c.  West Bank (including the No Man’s Lands between the West Bank and Israel):

(1)  The POB for persons born in the West Bank is WEST BANK.

(2)  Persons born before May 14, 1948 in the West Bank may have PALESTINE listed as the POB (if requested).

d. Gaza Strip:

(1)  The POB for persons born in the Gaza Strip is GAZA STRIP.

(2)  Persons born before May 14, 1948 in the Gaza Strip may have PALESTINE listed as the POB (if requested).

e. Jerusalem:

(1)  Unless born before May 14, 1948 in locations outside Jerusalem's municipal limits at that time (see below), the POB for U.S. passports for persons born in Jerusalem should be:

(a)  If the applicant lists solely “Jerusalem” as the place of birth (POB) the POB must be JERUSALEM on the U.S. passport, Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA), or Consular Report of Death Abroad (CRDA);

(b)  If the applicant lists “Israel,” the POB must be ISRAEL on the U.S. passport or “JERUSALEM, ISRAEL” on the CRBA/CRDA; or

(c)  If the applicant lists “Jerusalem, Israel” you must contact the applicant to ascertain whether the applicant prefers either solely JERUSALEM or ISRAEL (on the U.S. passport) or JERUSALEM, ISRAEL (on the CRBA/CRDA).

(2)  Persons born before May 14, 1948 within the municipal borders of Jerusalem at that time may elect either JERUSALEM or ISRAEL as described above in paragraph e(1);

(3)  The POB for persons born before May 14, 1948 in locations outside Jerusalem’s municipal limits at that time, that are now inside Jerusalem’s declared municipal limits, is listed as PALESTINE or the name of the location (area/city) as it was known prior to expansion of Jerusalem’s municipal limits at any time following May 14, 1948. Persons born in such locations after May 14, 1948, may choose the name of the location (area/city) as it was known prior to the expansion of Jerusalem’s municipal limits; and

(4)  Do not list Jordan or West Bank for persons born within the current municipal borders of Jerusalem.

f.  Israel:  List ISRAEL as the place of birth in the passport if and only if the applicant was born in Israel, or if requested consistent with the Jerusalem-specific guidance above.  Do not list Israel for persons born in the Gaza Strip, Jerusalem, the West Bank, or the No Man’s Land between the West Bank and Israel.

g. POB in area formerly known as Palestine:  Persons born in the area formerly known as Palestine (which includes the Gaza Strip, Jerusalem, or the West Bank) may object to listing their POB as something other than Palestine.  In such cases, you should explain CA’s policy of listing the birthplace as the country having present sovereignty and that U.S. policy recognizes that the final status of the Gaza Strip, Jerusalem, and the West Bank must be determined by negotiations.  Applicants may be offered alternate entry place of birth consistent with more specific guidance in this section and in 8 FAM 403.4-5.

Area Name	POB	Alternate Entry
Gaza Strip	GAZA STRIP	PALESTINE (if born before May 14, 1948); or   City or town of birth
Golan Heights	ISRAEL	City or town of birth
Israel	ISRAEL	PALESTINE (if born before May 14, 1948); or   City or town of birth
Jerusalem	ISRAEL (U.S. passports)   Or   JERUSALEM (U.S. passports, CRBAs, CRDAs) Or   JERUSALEM, ISRAEL (CRBAs, CRDAs).	PALESTINE (ONLY if born before May 14, 1948 in an area which was outside Jerusalem’s municipal limits at that time);or   Name of the location (area/city) as it was  known prior to expansion of Jerusalem’s municipal limits at any time following May 14, 1948 (if born in an area which was outside Jerusalem’s municipal limits on May 14, 1948);
West Bank	WEST BANK	PALESTINE (if born before May 14, 1948); or    City or town of birth
Sinai	EGYPT

8 FAM 403.4-4(B)  Birth at Sea or In the

Edited April 6, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[troodon 0]

Wow, this is great, thank you so  much.

 

A few things: I know the main applicant's birthplace is Syria, but I am asking about his "Country/Region of Origin (Nationality)" on the "Personal Information 2" section. For that, he is putting "Stateless," and for "Document Type" he's putting "Other Travel Document" instead of "Passport." Is this the correct choice?

 

As far as his parents' place of birth, I'm still confused, even after closely reading the document you quote. They were born in 1943, 5 years before the state of Israel was established, on land that is now Israel, but not Jerusalem (and obviously not the West Bank or Gaza, either).

 

Section (f) of that document reads:

Quote

f.  Israel:  List ISRAEL as the place of birth in the passport if and only if the applicant was born in Israel,

So, does being born there in 1943 nonetheless make them born in Israel?

 

Section (g) starts:

Quote

g. POB in area formerly known as Palestine:  Persons born in the area formerly known as Palestine (which includes the Gaza Strip, Jerusalem, or the West Bank) may object to listing their POB as something other than Palestine.

Palestine isn't on the list, and I don't think the applicant has any such objections, so I'm not sure this is the option for him either.

 

Apologies if I'm not getting something that's already clear.

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

If Palestine is not in the drop down then I guess Israel? Sorry I don’t know what is in the drop down options. If it’s not a political issue for the person then I’d just go with Israel.

 

Hm yes it does say nationality for that section, in that case I guess stateless is correct for the person born in Syria. This law firm article supports that too, specifically noting the situation wrt US law https://www.relocation-law.com/stateless-palestinians-united-states/

 

And yes re the travel document.

 

Good luck. Will be nice for him to naturalize eventually and have a nationality and passport finally.

 

[troodon 0]

Thanks for the clarification and input. (And hello from San Leandro! 😀)

 

56 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Will be nice for him to naturalize eventually and have a nationality and passport finally.

I was just thinking this today.