Will I have issues getting into the US after surrending my green card (which I obtained after AoS whilst on an esta)

[Wuozopo 4,293]

4 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Spouse has to do this anyway so it’s hardly much extra admin right? Very few people seem to be in the income bracket where it has a serious actual $$ implication.

That’s right. His wife will file if she earns income in the U.K. It’s a pretty short process where you file reporting UK income, owe $0 to the IRS, and done. Also each person can exclude up to $107,600 foreign earned income this year and it usually goes up each year or so.

[heamatite2000 34]

10 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

I have know so many over the decade on here that move to the UK thinking it would be forever, only to decide the US was better and they have to start over with the CR1 spouse visa to come back. With US citizenship, you don’t have to deal with ESTA, B visas, or an immigrant visa to return if it doesn’t work out. Just get on a plane and come. Also have you studied the rules to get your wife admitted to live in the U.K?  You have to hold a job there (earning over the stated limit) for 6 months before applying for her visa and getting her on NHS. Or have £60k+ in cash assets.  
 

According to your timeline, you are eligible for citizenship this year on October 15. You can apply in mid July. I think it is very much worth it to hold out and make the rest of your life easier. You never know when rules will change on either side.
 

Yeah, I do like the fact it’s a safety net and the fact that I can apply in July. With the tax business I did read that a us citizen does have to pay taxes on their UK “tax-free” savings account (ISA) which I find a bit bizarre.. 
 

And yeah I was going down the route of me having a job offer already and also me being in the same job for a year in the states both earning over the certain amount which I’ll be able to bring my husband over.

 

The only thing I’m torn between is that my job/career prospects are better over in the UK where I have had little to no luck in getting experience in what I want to do in America without me having to do another masters or something (I deffo feel this sense of urgency as I’m approaching my 30s LOL) and even my husband (who’s the us citizen) thinks we should just move without the passport... but he doesn’t understand the entirety of the complications 

[Wuozopo 4,293]

3 minutes ago, heamatite2000 said:

I deffo feel this sense of urgency as I’m approaching my 30s LOL) and even my husband (who’s the us citizen) thinks we should just move without the passport... but he doesn’t understand the entirety of the complications 

Sorry I reversed your genders on who was US/UK in my replies. 
 

You are so young! You just won’t understand that yet. Give it another year, then spend the five years needed for husband’s UK citizenship. Then you can hop countries at the drop of a hat. You have a lifetime of adventures awaiting, so make it easy on the immigration front is still my perspective 

 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

48 minutes ago, heamatite2000 said:

Yeah, I do like the fact it’s a safety net and the fact that I can apply in July. With the tax business I did read that a us citizen does have to pay taxes on their UK “tax-free” savings account (ISA) which I find a bit bizarre.. 
 

And yeah I was going down the route of me having a job offer already and also me being in the same job for a year in the states both earning over the certain amount which I’ll be able to bring my husband over.

 

The only thing I’m torn between is that my job/career prospects are better over in the UK where I have had little to no luck in getting experience in what I want to do in America without me having to do another masters or something (I deffo feel this sense of urgency as I’m approaching my 30s LOL) and even my husband (who’s the us citizen) thinks we should just move without the passport... but he doesn’t understand the entirety of the complications 

So two things. One, jobs in the pandemic have been awkward. Two, moving countries often means taking a step back in the jobs market at first. Your husband will probably find the same thing happens to him when you move to the UK. 

[retheem 566]

2 hours ago, heamatite2000 said:

Hi everyone!!

 

I am a Uk citizen married to a us citizen, we currently reside in the states and I am currently on that 18 month extension letter waiting for my 10 year green card. Our plan was always to move to the UK at some point and I have been offered a job over there and I am trying to lay out all the facts/pros/cons about whether we should move or suck it up and wait to get my passport etc.

Concerns of mine are as follows:

1. if I were to move and officially abandon my green card can I enter into the US on an esta in the future when wanting to visit family/in-laws

2. as I came in on an esta last time then got married/adjusted status will this cause a red flag when entering again? Or will I be fine if I show I have ties to the Uk like job/house/return flight?

 

many thanks!

 

anastasia 

Dude...apply for your citizenship then move all you want after that.

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

I agree...the CR1/IR1/AoS process is painful even at the best of times. If you get your citizenship you'll never have to do that again. If you end up going back to the UK and find out one or both of you hate it, then you'll be kicking yourself having to go through the process again.

 

If you must return to the UK, I'm not sure if you would be eligible, but I am wondering if it would be prudent to apply for a re-entry permit to preserve the green card for two years while you decide whether your stay in the UK would be for good or not. However it's not a sure fire thing and if it did look like you perma-left you might still be out of luck.

 

Anyone else have thoughts on a re-entry permit here?

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

1 hour ago, CanadaDude said:

I agree...the CR1/IR1/AoS process is painful even at the best of times. If you get your citizenship you'll never have to do that again. If you end up going back to the UK and find out one or both of you hate it, then you'll be kicking yourself having to go through the process again.

 

If you must return to the UK, I'm not sure if you would be eligible, but I am wondering if it would be prudent to apply for a re-entry permit to preserve the green card for two years while you decide whether your stay in the UK would be for good or not. However it's not a sure fire thing and if it did look like you perma-left you might still be out of luck.

 

Anyone else have thoughts on a re-entry permit here?

It’s not clear to me if she has removed conditions yet. If not, the REP would only be valid until the date she has to do RoC. Otherwise, it is indeed a good way to test the waters back in the uk for both of them without losing the green card. (Not sure why you say it’s not “sure fire”, it pretty much is for a family based green card)

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

2 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

It’s not clear to me if she has removed conditions yet. If not, the REP would only be valid until the date she has to do RoC. Otherwise, it is indeed a good way to test the waters back in the uk for both of them without losing the green card. (Not sure why you say it’s not “sure fire”, it pretty much is for a family based green card)

 

 

The reason I say 'sure fire' is that a re-entry permit only preserves the LPR's travel document for entry and to be boarded for up to two years instead of the usual one and for the length of absence to be removed from CBP's determination if PR status was abandoned. CBP can still assess the LPR for abandonment even with a re-entry permit and refer to an IJ, but the ultimate burden of proof is higher for the government to prove abandonment to an Immigration Judge. So tl;dr if OP gets a re-entry permit but severs all ties to the US and departs without (or fails to maintain) a fixed intention to return to take up residence in the US again, by the strict letter of the law they have abandoned their status.

 

I will say, case-law I have seen is that there is normally a very high burden of proof for the Government to demonstrate abandonment even without a re-entry permit; that is if it gets to an IJ rather than a person just signing I-407 at the border.

 

Also yes, those awaiting I-751 RoC will only have a Re-entry permit valid up to the end of the extension letter/ADIT stamp.

Edited March 24, 2021 by CanadaDude

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

29 minutes ago, CanadaDude said:

The reason I say 'sure fire' is that a re-entry permit only preserves the LPR's travel document for entry and to be boarded for up to two years instead of the usual one and for the length of absence to be removed from CBP's determination if PR status was abandoned. CBP can still assess the LPR for abandonment even with a re-entry permit and refer to an IJ, but the ultimate burden of proof is higher for the government to prove abandonment to an Immigration Judge. So tl;dr if OP gets a re-entry permit but severs all ties to the US and departs without (or fails to maintain) a fixed intention to return to take up residence in the US again, by the strict letter of the law they have abandoned their status.

I

I disagree, the uscis info sheet on re-entry permits is very clear that the mere act of getting one signals intent to return. 
 

“A reentry permit establishes that you did not intend to abandon status, and it allows you to apply for admission to the United States after traveling abroad for up to 2 years without having to obtain a returning resident visa.”

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/B5en.pdf

 

i have seen numerous cases reported on where it’s the person going back ‘home’ as soon as they get their green card to finish studies, finish wrapping up family business etc, where they did not establish ties before leaving and never had a problem coming back.  If you know of such cases please point to the threads because  I have literally never seen one, and this includes a few cases where people had 2 REPs in a row. The only issue I can ever recall seeing with an REP application was with an employment based green card where the person’s green card was based on his job in the US but he wanted the REP to go work elsewhere for 2 years (duh).

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[Daisy.Chain 317]

A re-entry permit will let her back into the US..but won't that disrupt the physical location requirement for citizenship?

 

If I had to pick between US citizenship and a job, I'd pick the citizenship. You may sacrifice this job opportunity, but imho it's worth it to never have to think about it again.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Daisy.Chain

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

5 minutes ago, Daisy.Chain said:

A re-entry permit will let her back into the US..but won't that disrupt the physical location requirement for citizenship?

 

If I had to pick between US citizenship and a job, I'd pick the citizenship. You may sacrifice this job opportunity, but imho it's worth it to never have to think about it again.

Yes, but it was suggested so she could consider an option that meant not having to wait for citizenship but also not have to abandon LPR status and then go through the whole i130 process again in a few years.

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

17 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

I disagree, the uscis info sheet on re-entry permits is very clear that the mere act of getting one signals intent to return. 
 

“A reentry permit establishes that you did not intend to abandon status, and it allows you to apply for admission to the United States after traveling abroad for up to 2 years without having to obtain a returning resident visa.”

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/B5en.pdf

 

i have seen numerous cases reported on where it’s the person going back ‘home’ as soon as they get their green card to finish studies, finish wrapping up family business etc, where they did not establish ties before leaving and never had a problem coming back.  If you know of such cases please point to the threads because  I have literally never seen one, and this includes a few cases where people had 2 REPs in a row. The only issue I can ever recall seeing with an REP application was with an employment based green card where the person’s green card was based on his job in the US but he wanted the REP to go work elsewhere for 2 years (duh).

 

A lot of this stuff is based on circumstances. People obviously traveling and residing abroad for an extended period of time, i.e. to care for a family member, to study and so forth are very obviously abroad for a temporary purpose. Someone who has severed all ties to the US but is in possession of a REP might still have a risk, albeit small, chance of abandonment. Therefore, it is wise, and there is no harm in doing so by maintaining a number of US residential ties such as bank accounts, funds, and making sure to file as a resident alien on taxes. And filing as a non-resident alien can also create another presumption that residence was abandoned. See here:

 

"In fact, it is even possible for the border officials who meet you upon your return to the U.S. to exclude you from entry based on you having abandoned your U.S. residence. Although the reentry permit creates a presumption that you did not intend to abandon your residence, if the official sees clear indications that you really were making your home elsewhere, you can be refused entry."

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/reentry-permit-process-permanent-residents.html

 

Like I said, the risk is a lot lower with a REP, but I've seen at least two sources that maintain that while the REP provides a legal presumption that you did not intend to abandon residence, said presumption can be overcome with countering evidence.

Edited March 25, 2021 by CanadaDude

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

43 minutes ago, CanadaDude said:

A lot of this stuff is based on circumstances. People obviously traveling and residing abroad for an extended period of time, i.e. to care for a family member, to study and so forth are very obviously abroad for a temporary purpose. Someone who has severed all ties to the US but is in possession of a REP might still have a risk, albeit small, chance of abandonment. Therefore, it is wise, and there is no harm in doing so by maintaining a number of US residential ties such as bank accounts, funds, and making sure to file as a resident alien on taxes. And filing as a non-resident alien can also create another presumption that residence was abandoned. See here:

 

"In fact, it is even possible for the border officials who meet you upon your return to the U.S. to exclude you from entry based on you having abandoned your U.S. residence. Although the reentry permit creates a presumption that you did not intend to abandon your residence, if the official sees clear indications that you really were making your home elsewhere, you can be refused entry."

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/reentry-permit-process-permanent-residents.html

 

Like I said, the risk is a lot lower with a REP, but I've seen at least two sources that maintain that while the REP provides a legal presumption that you did not intend to abandon residence, said presumption can be overcome with countering evidence.

 Can you point to a thread of someone reporting this actually happened, not just a a hypothetical maybe from a lawyer? I have personally never seen one. I am far more inclined to believe uscis than I am lawyer blogs, which have on far too many occasions published reasonable sounding but demonstrably wrong or misleading information.  Especially if they can get people worried enough to hire lawyers they don’t need. You see that kind of thing on avvo all the time.
 

The tax issue is separate - you are obliged to file as a LPR no matter where in the world you are residing at the time. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[Kai G. Llewellyn 838]

5 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

 Can you point to a thread of someone reporting this actually happened, not just a a hypothetical maybe from a lawyer? I have personally never seen one. I am far more inclined to believe uscis than I am lawyer blogs, which have on far too many occasions published reasonable sounding but demonstrably wrong or misleading information.  Especially if they can get people worried enough to hire lawyers they don’t need. You see that kind of thing on avvo all the time.
 

The tax issue is separate - you are obliged to file as a LPR no matter where in the world you are residing at the time. 

You got me there...perhaps I'm just super risk adverse. If I were in the situation I'd be in the habit of maintaining at least some residential ties to the US...better to have them and not need them rather than not having them and then being that one unlucky person to be caught out.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

9 minutes ago, CanadaDude said:

You got me there...perhaps I'm just super risk adverse. If I were in the situation I'd be in the habit of maintaining at least some residential ties to the US...better to have them and not need them rather than not having them and then being that one unlucky person to be caught out.

Also -  a border official does not actually have the authority to "exclude you from entry" as that post claims. As the holder of a valid green card the "worst" they can do is refer you to an immigration judge to make the determination that you abandoned status. The paperwork involved in that when the green card holder is actually in possession of a document that (as the post you quoted even says) presumes you did not intend to abandon residence ...well, you might be worried about that risk but I wouldn't. I honestly wouldn't. 

(They also list a bank account as a tie, yet I know a number of non residents who have US bank accounts. But sure it's an easy thing to do if it makes someone feel better to show a "tie".)

Edited March 25, 2021 by SusieQQQ