Giuliani cites Glasgow attack in call for immigration policy

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Most people wont need resort to ID theft to get work. Not that many necessarily use it anyway. I still haven't see numbers on how many where an illegal immigrant uses someone else's number rather than a fake one.

Cool, you make a statement to then turn around and effectively say that you can't make that statement. Very convincing.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

After amnesty and legalization anyone left, well, they get deported.

Your cart is still before your horse. It didn't work last time. And there's nothing that suggest it would this time.

[Dan J 277]

After amnesty and legalization anyone left, well, they get deported.

Your cart is still before your horse. It didn't work last time. And there's nothing that suggest it would this time.

If your going to keep saying last time, look at your enforcment argument, we tried that last time too.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Looking at more current data, in the last two quarters, unemployment, has stayed at 4.5 percent. If you take out teenagers who may have other reasons for not working, the unemployment rate is actually around 4% and its been that way for at least two quarters.

Actually, those that don't register, don't count. The unemployment rate is higher than what the official figure states. People just tend to quit registering once their 26 weeks (or whatever they have) of benefits run out. Really no point in calling in every week once your benefits run out. Teenagers (supposedly those that don't have any kind of a work history needed for unemployment benefits) do not qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with and would not be counted at all. They have no impact on the figure.

[Dan J 277]

You don't understand. As long as we remain with a free market economy, there will always be poor people. If they are not illegal aliens, they will be citizens. Basically the concept is simple. To have winners, you have to have losers. If you remove the citizens, there will be more people that will be considered to be in poverty. Either the poverty level will increase due to inflation, or they will loose their higher skilled better paying job, only to be stuck in a job left over from the illegals leaving. There will be more Americans going into poverty. Saying otherwise shows that you don't understand simple economic concepts. This is not spin. This is just the way it is.

No, it's you that obviously does not understand. You take away the 20 million drains on our economy and you will not suddenly condem 20 million people that were doing well to poverty. You raise the bottom. The entire curve moves up and that benefits everyone. Our economy isn't a zero sum gain. That is why people want to come here in the first place. Our curve is set higher than most of the worlds. That is why even the poorest among us has it better than the average in the third world. Now your just making things up and hoping we swallow it. Sorry, not working here.

Thank you for solving poverty Gary, we just have to deport any one who is poor. Let other countries deal with it.

[GaryC 7]

You don't understand. As long as we remain with a free market economy, there will always be poor people. If they are not illegal aliens, they will be citizens. Basically the concept is simple. To have winners, you have to have losers. If you remove the citizens, there will be more people that will be considered to be in poverty. Either the poverty level will increase due to inflation, or they will loose their higher skilled better paying job, only to be stuck in a job left over from the illegals leaving. There will be more Americans going into poverty. Saying otherwise shows that you don't understand simple economic concepts. This is not spin. This is just the way it is.

No, it's you that obviously does not understand. You take away the 20 million drains on our economy and you will not suddenly condem 20 million people that were doing well to poverty. You raise the bottom. The entire curve moves up and that benefits everyone. Our economy isn't a zero sum gain. That is why people want to come here in the first place. Our curve is set higher than most of the worlds. That is why even the poorest among us has it better than the average in the third world. Now your just making things up and hoping we swallow it. Sorry, not working here.

Thank you for solving poverty Gary, we just have to deport any one who is poor. Let other countries deal with it.

Just those that are not supposed to be here in the first place. Then we can better take care of our own poor. Or do you have a problem taking care of our nations poor?

[Dan J 277]

Looking at more current data, in the last two quarters, unemployment, has stayed at 4.5 percent. If you take out teenagers who may have other reasons for not working, the unemployment rate is actually around 4% and its been that way for at least two quarters.

Actually, those that don't register, don't count. The unemployment rate is higher than what the official figure states. People just tend to quit registering once their 26 weeks (or whatever they have) of benefits run out. Really no point in calling in every week once your benefits run out. Teenagers (supposedly those that don't have any kind of a work history needed for unemployment benefits) do not qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with and would not be counted at all. They have no impact on the figure.

And there are also people out of work, who are looking for the right job, and it may take them 6-12 months, but they can afford to do so. There are jobs an there will always be jobs, the question is are you qualified for it, and do you want to do it.

[GaryC 7]

And there are also people out of work, who are looking for the right job, and it may take them 6-12 months, but they can afford to do so. There are jobs an there will always be jobs, the question is are you qualified for it, and do you want to do it.

Now your just spouting jibberish. Face it dude, your ideas are wrong and you just don't want to admit it. Illegals are a burden to our country, they do not belong here and the only right thing to do is to make them go home. I would much rather have 10 million guest workers that did it the proper way by starting in their own country than people that started out by breaking the law. I will not reward law breakers by letting them jump in line before honest immigrants that do it the right way. The solution is simple, enforce our laws and make it impossible for these gate crashers to find work. That way they will leave on their own. Secure our border and make it harder for new ones to come in and then after that is done start a guest worker program. That way they are all in the light, all have the protection of our laws, all are treated with respect and all are welcome to our country. Is that so hard for you to understand? You are in reality on the side of big business, on the side of those who treat the illegals as low paid slaves and on the side of those that would abuse them. Simply waving the magic wand and making them legal will not fix anything other than your statisitics. It will not help the plight of the illegals and it will encourage more to come in.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

After amnesty and legalization anyone left, well, they get deported.

Your cart is still before your horse. It didn't work last time. And there's nothing that suggest it would this time.

If your going to keep saying last time, look at your enforcment argument, we tried that last time too.

You haven't brought up anything that would make me believe that those that pizzed on the laws of this land for years would all of a sudden respect it. They'll do whatever they want to do until they are shown that we ain't taking it no more. The enforcement has got to happen first. Otherwise, we'll have the debate what to do with 30 million illegals in 2020 or thereabout. You keep forgetting that once the amnesty happens, there is no assurance that the enforcement will be done. History teaches us that. That is why the majority of Americans insist that the government demonstrates that it can and will enforce the immigration laws currently in place. It's a reasonable demand to most of us.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Looking at more current data, in the last two quarters, unemployment, has stayed at 4.5 percent. If you take out teenagers who may have other reasons for not working, the unemployment rate is actually around 4% and its been that way for at least two quarters.

Actually, those that don't register, don't count. The unemployment rate is higher than what the official figure states. People just tend to quit registering once their 26 weeks (or whatever they have) of benefits run out. Really no point in calling in every week once your benefits run out. Teenagers (supposedly those that don't have any kind of a work history needed for unemployment benefits) do not qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with and would not be counted at all. They have no impact on the figure.

And there are also people out of work, who are looking for the right job, and it may take them 6-12 months, but they can afford to do so. There are jobs an there will always be jobs, the question is are you qualified for it, and do you want to do it.

So, you are now scrapping the lower percentages you tried to sell in support of your case?

[Dan J 277]

You don't understand. As long as we remain with a free market economy, there will always be poor people. If they are not illegal aliens, they will be citizens. Basically the concept is simple. To have winners, you have to have losers. If you remove the citizens, there will be more people that will be considered to be in poverty. Either the poverty level will increase due to inflation, or they will loose their higher skilled better paying job, only to be stuck in a job left over from the illegals leaving. There will be more Americans going into poverty. Saying otherwise shows that you don't understand simple economic concepts. This is not spin. This is just the way it is.

No, it's you that obviously does not understand. You take away the 20 million drains on our economy and you will not suddenly condem 20 million people that were doing well to poverty. You raise the bottom. The entire curve moves up and that benefits everyone. Our economy isn't a zero sum gain. That is why people want to come here in the first place. Our curve is set higher than most of the worlds. That is why even the poorest among us has it better than the average in the third world. Now your just making things up and hoping we swallow it. Sorry, not working here.

Thank you for solving poverty Gary, we just have to deport any one who is poor. Let other countries deal with it.

Just those that are not supposed to be here in the first place. Then we can better take care of our own poor. Or do you have a problem taking care of our nations poor?

Ok gary, let me explain this to you in simpler terms, We have 37 million people in poverty in this country. Our population is around 300 million, which puts about 12% of our population in poverty. Ok, lets say we do have 20 million illegal immigrants, 19 million of them are in poverty. There is no indication that our poverty rate will change overall after we deport 20 million illegal immigrants so we are left with a vacuum. Which means we will have about 33.6 million people in poverty after population decreased to 280 million. Previous to the Exodus, we have 18 million (37 million - 19 million) Americans in poverty. Afterwards well we are left with a difference 15.6 million, which unless you solve poverty, Gary, it will be filled by citizens and LPR's.

There is no indication that in anyway the poverty rate will change, we will still have low paying jobs, just now americans will be the ones to do them. Sure wages will increase a bit, but its unlikely to increase to the pay that would be necessary for your argument to work. And even if it did, the poverty ceiling, will go up with it.

You can make $100,000 per year, but if everyone else is making more than you, your screwed. Even though from our current economic perspective that looks good.

Looking at more current data, in the last two quarters, unemployment, has stayed at 4.5 percent. If you take out teenagers who may have other reasons for not working, the unemployment rate is actually around 4% and its been that way for at least two quarters.

Actually, those that don't register, don't count. The unemployment rate is higher than what the official figure states. People just tend to quit registering once their 26 weeks (or whatever they have) of benefits run out. Really no point in calling in every week once your benefits run out. Teenagers (supposedly those that don't have any kind of a work history needed for unemployment benefits) do not qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with and would not be counted at all. They have no impact on the figure.

And there are also people out of work, who are looking for the right job, and it may take them 6-12 months, but they can afford to do so. There are jobs an there will always be jobs, the question is are you qualified for it, and do you want to do it.

So, you are now scrapping the lower percentages you tried to sell in support of your case?

Nope, just pointing out that I am aware that unemployment rate doesn't count everybody. But until you show me a measure that does, its the best we got.

[GaryC 7]

Ok gary, let me explain this to you in simpler terms, We have 37 million people in poverty in this country. Our population is around 300 million, which puts about 12% of our population in poverty. Ok, lets say we do have 20 million illegal immigrants, 19 million of them are in poverty. There is no indication that our poverty rate will change overall after we deport 20 million illegal immigrants so we are left with a vacuum. Which means we will have about 33.6 million people in poverty after population decreased to 280 million. Previous to the Exodus, we have 18 million (37 million - 19 million) Americans in poverty. Afterwards well we are left with a difference 15.6 million, which unless you solve poverty, Gary, it will be filled by citizens and LPR's.

There is no indication that in anyway the poverty rate will change, we will still have low paying jobs, just now americans will be the ones to do them. Sure wages will increase a bit, but its unlikely to increase to the pay that would be necessary for your argument to work. And even if it did, the poverty ceiling, will go up with it.

You can make $100,000 per year, but if everyone else is making more than you, your screwed. Even though from our current economic perspective that looks good.

My God who taught you economics??? That is the biggest load of BS since my grand-dad fertilized the corn field!!! You have been to your SO's country right? That is what a country looks like with the majority of people that are poor. Now look at any developed country. Do you see a difference? It's because there are fewer poor people!!! If we took the illegals out of our country we benefit in two ways. We no longer have to pay for their upkeep and the money they send home stays here. Those that are above them don't sink to poverty. That is the looniest thing I have ever heard of!!! It just shows how you are grasping at straws to support your position. I no longer take you seriously. :lol: :lol:

[smoke20 0]

wow did i start a s**t storm! sorry for hijacking your thread devilette.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Looking at more current data, in the last two quarters, unemployment, has stayed at 4.5 percent. If you take out teenagers who may have other reasons for not working, the unemployment rate is actually around 4% and its been that way for at least two quarters.

Actually, those that don't register, don't count. The unemployment rate is higher than what the official figure states. People just tend to quit registering once their 26 weeks (or whatever they have) of benefits run out. Really no point in calling in every week once your benefits run out. Teenagers (supposedly those that don't have any kind of a work history needed for unemployment benefits) do not qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with and would not be counted at all. They have no impact on the figure.

And there are also people out of work, who are looking for the right job, and it may take them 6-12 months, but they can afford to do so. There are jobs an there will always be jobs, the question is are you qualified for it, and do you want to do it.

So, you are now scrapping the lower percentages you tried to sell in support of your case?

Nope, just pointing out that I am aware that unemployment rate doesn't count everybody. But until you show me a measure that does, its the best we got.

Then why the attempt to doctor it down?

[Dan J 277]

After amnesty and legalization anyone left, well, they get deported.

Your cart is still before your horse. It didn't work last time. And there's nothing that suggest it would this time.

If your going to keep saying last time, look at your enforcment argument, we tried that last time too.

You haven't brought up anything that would make me believe that those that pizzed on the laws of this land for years would all of a sudden respect it. They'll do whatever they want to do until they are shown that we ain't taking it no more. The enforcement has got to happen first. Otherwise, we'll have the debate what to do with 30 million illegals in 2020 or thereabout. You keep forgetting that once the amnesty happens, there is no assurance that the enforcement will be done. History teaches us that. That is why the majority of Americans insist that the government demonstrates that it can and will enforce the immigration laws currently in place. It's a reasonable demand to most of us.

You haven't shown me anything that enforcment alone will change anything. History in our other enforcment efforts, have either backfired (prohibition) or have a limited effectiveness (war on drugs). Even people have been able to evade taxes for most of their live as a citizen.

I'm not against enforcment, but I dont see it alone as solving the issue we have. Its only part of the solution.

Or on the other side, we will have a debate in 2020, about how many illegal aliens are working underground in conditions and how they are getting though the coasts and border with Canada.

I'm not stupid, I know, even with legalization we will have people trying to come in. But whats easier to deal with 100,000 people, or 1.2 million. We can deal with the 100,000 much more cost effectively, than we can deal with a lot larger population.