Consequences of working under the table

[payxibka 10,045]

Its no longer a 2020 tax issue,  as that ship has sailed.  Don't buy into that kind of argument 

[pablo2752 106]

Spouses of USC are forgiven of their unauthorized employment - but doesn't mean you can go work for someone. 

Now you know the risks of working under the table. The employers can and will exploit the fact that one shouldn't be working, and it has happened plenty of time. 

[fezlopez 38]

Do not provide any SSN or documents if she hasn't paid. If she did pay, you'll be in a bigger bind.

 

Best advice is let this go as a lesson learned. Always take 50% upfront....

and next time, simply set up a sole proprietorship under your name, YOU collect the payment, and then do as you wish with taxes. Don't let your spouse compromise herself, her status for $1500, it's not worth the headache. 

 

Do you honestly think she'll use that personal info to pay her? She'll use to file lawsuit against her or deport her.

So...be careful.

[Villanelle 4,122]

 Federal law makes it illegal to discriminate against any worker in the United States, regardless of immigration status.  In response to Hoffman, the EEOC recently directed its field offices that claims for all forms of relief, other than reinstatement and back pay for periods after discharge or failure to hire, should be processed in accord with existing standards, without regard to an individual's immigration status.  https://www.eeoc.gov/newsroom/eeoc-reaffirms-commitment-protecting-undocumented-workers-discrimination-0

 

https://hkm.com/employment-blog/undocumented-workers-right-to-sue-unpaid-wages/   The decision, which is somewhat controversial given the current political climate toward undocumented immigrants, is believed to be designed to prevent employers from exploiting labor that would otherwise cost American citizens domestic jobs. In addition, it protects undocumented workers from being exploited by unscrupulous employers looking to hire to cheap, under-the-table employees, and then back out of agreements in bad faith.

 

 

https://www.justice4you.com/blog/wages-earned-as-undocumented-worker.html  

Undocumented workers generally have the same wage and hour rights as authorized workers. Federal and California laws establish your right to minimum wage, overtime pay, breaks, tips, and other forms of wages. Our state also has laws specifically to protect undocumented immigrants:

Your employer cannot use your immigration status to refuse to pay wages that you have earned.
Your employer cannot use your immigration status as an excuse to fire you because you complained about nonpayment of wages.
Employers are prohibited from retaliating against workers who assert their legal rights. If your employer retaliates against you because you complained about their unlawful working conditions, they are breaking the law a second time.
Your employer is prohibited from reporting or threatening to report your citizenship or immigration status, or that of a family member, because you exercised a right under the California Labor Code.
Employers are not permitted to let federal immigration agents onto private business property without a judicial warrant.

 

 

-------------

 

The above are snippets found online about the topic. Just FYI if you are going to research/pursue this more a lot of the specifics will depend on the state you live in. The second link refers to an 8th circuit court ruling which may not apply if you are not in that court district and not all the circuit courts agree on things- so make sure you find resources that apply to your area. The last link is for a random attny (no personal knowledge of) as an example of attny adverts of who could possibly help or refer you to the proper gov agency to report the issue to. 

 

[issea 43]

Nasty lady...she’s cheaper than $1500...sympathetic to ur wife. 

[Lemonslice 4,859]

That's wage theft, contact your department of Labor. 

[lucardo3 220]

Karma will come back and bite her dirty *ss. Letting it go is the only and logical option here.

[Villanelle 4,122]

10 hours ago, fezlopez said:

She'll use to file lawsuit against her or deport her.

So...be careful.

 

58 minutes ago, lucardo3 said:

Karma will come back and bite her dirty *ss. Letting it go is the only and logical option here.

Im not directing the following comment at either one of you guys- Im just shocked that people have this attitude. I understand where it comes from. Theres a general concept in law that illegal contracts are not enforced by courts (example I pay my drug dealer for 10lbs of cocaine and he only gives me 7. I can not sue him for the 3lbs he owes me. I cant call the cops and file a report about it.) Its that general concept that causes many immigrants to fail to report crimes. They mistakenly believe that since they are illegal/undocumented that means they are committing a crime so they are precluded from using courts or reporting things to the police or appropriate agencies.  Thats not accurate and is why many unscrupulous individuals take advantage of immigrants or target them in crimes...

 

Employment laws apply to everyone equally. You cant run a sweatshop and have it be OK because the workers are undocumented. You cant exploit people simply because they are undocumented. An undocumented worker has the same rights to safe working conditions and fair pay as a documented worker. Various federal and state laws outline such in more details and while the specifics may vary in different jurisdictions NO WHERE is it allowed to exploit workers for any reason- especially because they are undocumented. So yes, while it is true that someone who works w/o auth and the person who hires them are violating the laws but the concept that "I guess since we are both violating the law no one will help and the employer can treat me in any manner" does not apply

 

I am not an employment attny nor an immigration attny. If I was I suppose I could quote you more specific terminology then the quoted links from above. A quick (and often free) consult with an attny or even an anon call to the labor board will confirm such and they can probably quote you the applicable statutes that apply where you live. 

 

All this talk about the immigrant not being able to sue or report this or the logical thing to do is to just let it go is IMO wrong. First the employer can not deport her. If any law suit is filed (and it should be filed by the immigrant) the court will most likely rule the immigrant is entitled to pay regardless of her work authorization status. Penalties can be imposed on the employer who hires someone w/o auth. The penalties for one working w/o auth are mainly related to immigration and taxes and as mentioned as the spouse of a USC working w/o auth is not a bar to adjusting status. It can trickle into other issues- like have you paid taxes on the income you earned? IRS does not care if you earned the money illegally, you still need to pay taxes on it. I believe there is actually a line on the 1040 directing you to list any illicit income. Im not sure if the 1500 owed to the immigrant is the total amount earned or if amounts were paid and that is simply the balance due. The OP may also want to speak to a CPA about such and how to make sure its all reported correctly on their tax returns because again as said USCIS is not going to have issue with the unauth work as a spouse of a USC but will want to see taxes were paid.  Here is another link (also from CA) about how the same legal rights apply to undocumented workers - https://legalaidatwork.org/factsheet/undocumented-workers-employment-rights/

 

This particular situation is a bit more complicated then someone who takes a job w/o auth cleaning off tables at a diner or packing boxes in a large factory because its a nanny/babysitting job for an individual and as the OP already seems to have researched there are various issues with how that type of employee is to be classified and the tax obligations (for reporting/paying/withholdings) required by the employer in such situations.Here is a general link about nanny taxes - https://www.care.com/homepay/nanny-tax-guide  and also https://www.care.com/homepay/1099-vs-employee-why-the-difference-matters-when-you-hire-a-caregiver-1212110431

 

. Im not exactly sure what happened when the wife was hired (if work auth was ever asked for) but it seems presently the employer has spoken to their tax preparer and discovered the best thing for them (to avoid issues with improperly hiring someone and failing to follow the proper tax withholding requirements ) is to now attempt to correct it by getting the proper documents in an effort to 'backdate' it and conceal what actually occurred- which is the woman hired a worker and either failed to verify her work auth and/or collect the required documentation of her work auth. That is the employers problem.

 

Here are some additional links- https://immigrantsrising.org/wp-content/uploads/Immigrants-Rising_Working-for-Yourself-Guide.pdf

 

 

https://www.legacytaxresolutionservices.com/blog/i-have-an-independent-contractor-who-refuses-to-provide-a-form-w-9-what-do-i-do/164031

 

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/toolkits/pages/complying-with-i9-and-everify-requirements-in-the-united-states.aspx

 

https://s27147.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/tax-reporting-options.pdf

 

From the second link 

What Should You Do If an Independent Contractor is Refusing To Provide Their Social Security Numbers/EIN or Complete the Form W-9?

We always recommended clients get a W-9 completed and signed prior to any payments.  

If the payment has been made and the Independent Contractor is refusing to complete the Form W-9, take the following steps:

Attempt to contact the Independent Contractor by phone and inform them  they are required to provide the ID number or be subject to a $50 penalty for failure to furnish a TIN.  Inform the Independent  Contractor  it is your policy to file the Form 1099 with “refused” listed in the field for the EIN and SSN.
If no response, mail the partially completed Form W-9 with a return receipt requested.
If still no response, mail the Independent Contractor the Form 1099-MISC with "refused" for the EIN or SSN tax ID number.
If still no response, file Forms 1099-MISC with IRS .with "refused" for the EIN or SSN tax ID number.

 

Providing the job was actually something that should have been classified as an independent contractor there is a 50$ penalty and the employer needs to file the 1099 with refused listed as the EIN/SSN. Obviously the employer does not want to do this as doing so shows they hired someone w/o checking their work auth status or collecting the proper info at the start of employment. But again thats not the OPs problem. 

 

Personally I would not 'let this go'. The woman is looking for a way to avoid penalties due to mistakes she made in the hiring process and/or paying what is owed. I would encourage the OP to speak to an employment lawyer and/or a CPA about the matter and the best way to resolve it. An immigration attny can also be consulted but I dont believe they would have much to contribute besides confirming whats already been posted that working w/o auth is not a bar to adjustment as the spouse of a USC and the importance of the immigrant filing tax returns for any and all income received regardless of work auth. 

 

[replaysports 41]

3 hours ago, Lemonslice said:

That's wage theft, contact your department of Labor. 

How is it wage theft if the person was not allowed to work in the first place!? 

 

I would love to see the contract they both signed that would prove that the wages was "stolen"!? 

[replaysports 41]

50 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

 

Im not directing the following comment at either one of you guys- Im just shocked that people have this attitude. I understand where it comes from. Theres a general concept in law that illegal contracts are not enforced by courts (example I pay my drug dealer for 10lbs of cocaine and he only gives me 7. I can not sue him for the 3lbs he owes me. I cant call the cops and file a report about it.) Its that general concept that causes many immigrants to fail to report crimes. They mistakenly believe that since they are illegal/undocumented that means they are committing a crime so they are precluded from using courts or reporting things to the police or appropriate agencies.  Thats not accurate and is why many unscrupulous individuals take advantage of immigrants or target them in crimes...

 

Employment laws apply to everyone equally. You cant run a sweatshop and have it be OK because the workers are undocumented. You cant exploit people simply because they are undocumented. An undocumented worker has the same rights to safe working conditions and fair pay as a documented worker. Various federal and state laws outline such in more details and while the specifics may vary in different jurisdictions NO WHERE is it allowed to exploit workers for any reason- especially because they are undocumented. So yes, while it is true that someone who works w/o auth and the person who hires them are violating the laws but the concept that "I guess since we are both violating the law no one will help and the employer can treat me in any manner" does not apply

 

I am not an employment attny nor an immigration attny. If I was I suppose I could quote you more specific terminology then the quoted links from above. A quick (and often free) consult with an attny or even an anon call to the labor board will confirm such and they can probably quote you the applicable statutes that apply where you live. 

 

All this talk about the immigrant not being able to sue or report this or the logical thing to do is to just let it go is IMO wrong. First the employer can not deport her. If any law suit is filed (and it should be filed by the immigrant) the court will most likely rule the immigrant is entitled to pay regardless of her work authorization status. Penalties can be imposed on the employer who hires someone w/o auth. The penalties for one working w/o auth are mainly related to immigration and taxes and as mentioned as the spouse of a USC working w/o auth is not a bar to adjusting status. It can trickle into other issues- like have you paid taxes on the income you earned? IRS does not care if you earned the money illegally, you still need to pay taxes on it. I believe there is actually a line on the 1040 directing you to list any illicit income. Im not sure if the 1500 owed to the immigrant is the total amount earned or if amounts were paid and that is simply the balance due. The OP may also want to speak to a CPA about such and how to make sure its all reported correctly on their tax returns because again as said USCIS is not going to have issue with the unauth work as a spouse of a USC but will want to see taxes were paid.  Here is another link (also from CA) about how the same legal rights apply to undocumented workers - https://legalaidatwork.org/factsheet/undocumented-workers-employment-rights/

 

This particular situation is a bit more complicated then someone who takes a job w/o auth cleaning off tables at a diner or packing boxes in a large factory because its a nanny/babysitting job for an individual and as the OP already seems to have researched there are various issues with how that type of employee is to be classified and the tax obligations (for reporting/paying/withholdings) required by the employer in such situations.Here is a general link about nanny taxes - https://www.care.com/homepay/nanny-tax-guide  and also https://www.care.com/homepay/1099-vs-employee-why-the-difference-matters-when-you-hire-a-caregiver-1212110431

 

. Im not exactly sure what happened when the wife was hired (if work auth was ever asked for) but it seems presently the employer has spoken to their tax preparer and discovered the best thing for them (to avoid issues with improperly hiring someone and failing to follow the proper tax withholding requirements ) is to now attempt to correct it by getting the proper documents in an effort to 'backdate' it and conceal what actually occurred- which is the woman hired a worker and either failed to verify her work auth and/or collect the required documentation of her work auth. That is the employers problem.

 

Here are some additional links- https://immigrantsrising.org/wp-content/uploads/Immigrants-Rising_Working-for-Yourself-Guide.pdf

 

 

https://www.legacytaxresolutionservices.com/blog/i-have-an-independent-contractor-who-refuses-to-provide-a-form-w-9-what-do-i-do/164031

 

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/toolkits/pages/complying-with-i9-and-everify-requirements-in-the-united-states.aspx

 

https://s27147.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/tax-reporting-options.pdf

 

From the second link 

What Should You Do If an Independent Contractor is Refusing To Provide Their Social Security Numbers/EIN or Complete the Form W-9?

We always recommended clients get a W-9 completed and signed prior to any payments.  

If the payment has been made and the Independent Contractor is refusing to complete the Form W-9, take the following steps:

Attempt to contact the Independent Contractor by phone and inform them  they are required to provide the ID number or be subject to a $50 penalty for failure to furnish a TIN.  Inform the Independent  Contractor  it is your policy to file the Form 1099 with “refused” listed in the field for the EIN and SSN.
If no response, mail the partially completed Form W-9 with a return receipt requested.
If still no response, mail the Independent Contractor the Form 1099-MISC with "refused" for the EIN or SSN tax ID number.
If still no response, file Forms 1099-MISC with IRS .with "refused" for the EIN or SSN tax ID number.

 

Providing the job was actually something that should have been classified as an independent contractor there is a 50$ penalty and the employer needs to file the 1099 with refused listed as the EIN/SSN. Obviously the employer does not want to do this as doing so shows they hired someone w/o checking their work auth status or collecting the proper info at the start of employment. But again thats not the OPs problem. 

 

Personally I would not 'let this go'. The woman is looking for a way to avoid penalties due to mistakes she made in the hiring process and/or paying what is owed. I would encourage the OP to speak to an employment lawyer and/or a CPA about the matter and the best way to resolve it. An immigration attny can also be consulted but I dont believe they would have much to contribute besides confirming whats already been posted that working w/o auth is not a bar to adjustment as the spouse of a USC and the importance of the immigrant filing tax returns for any and all income received regardless of work auth. 

 

Where is the contract that proves what the hourly rate is, what is the number of hours that must be met to constitute overtime, and what rate the OT should be at.... how would the courts enforce this without any contract!? which is why you cant sue or contact the cops on your drug dealer either, unless you have the transaction documented and in the end you would both do to jail... so please ensure to document your next drug deal and go to the cops when your dealer tries to screw you!!!

 

Just make sure you come back on here and let us know the outcome!!! PLEASEEEEE!!!!!!

[Leah88 192]

If you work illegally you cannot expect for someone to stick to the laws! I would love to work and have money right now, but since we are not allowed to work on a k1 I don’t. And I don’t have money either and it really sucks, however, I wouldn’t like to be used like that either so I’m glad I’m sticking to the rules.

[implife 318]

I keep thinking that the main danger of working under the table is that you are likely to keep hitting your head on the underside of the said table...

[Lemonslice 4,859]

2 hours ago, replaysports said:

How is it wage theft if the person was not allowed to work in the first place!? 

 

I would love to see the contract they both signed that would prove that the wages was "stolen"!? 

It's absolutely wage theft.  Lack of status, or contract, doesn't prevent that.  Seems that they have plenty of texts to support their claim.

 

Same way you can't just injure, assault, or kill, someone because they're out of status.

[Lamargrant3787 30]

16 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

It's absolutely wage theft.  Lack of status, or contract, doesn't prevent that.  Seems that they have plenty of texts to support their claim.

 

Same way you can't just injure, assault, or kill, someone because they're out of status.

Yeah we have a lot of texts to support everything. For some odd reason the lady preferred to text rather than call which showed me she's not really serious, just trying to antagonize my wife. 

 

The lady advertised on Housekeeper. Com website for a full time nanny for $14hr. During the interview I believe they agreed again to $14hr, but I was not at the interview so I can't be sure. When my wife first received pay, it turned out to be $13hr. I didn't make a deal of it, I thought maybe just a misunderstanding. 

 

The lady has very sociopathic tendencies.

We noticed every single week, she wouldn't pay the full check on time. She would say "I can pay $500 now and then 400 on Monday as I have maxed out with cashapp". 

 

One time in particular, my wife had to ask her for even the first initial payment on payday. The lady responded saying "I always pay on Fridays at 5pm." That threw me off guard and made me think maybe I didn't notice and maybe we're being too anxious or paranoid about the paycheck. The next following payday at 5pm, STILL no payment. Thats when I realized she's good at blaming others and making them feel guilty for her crimes. 

 

Here's the part where it really gets sketchy: 

 

It was during the last couple of weeks my wife worked with her. On a Friday, my wife was set to finish her shift. She had a dentist appointment scheduled right after. The lady then sent a text saying "Can you please cancel your appointment and stay longer to watch Lewi, because I have a crisis that I'm going through".

 

Lewi is her 5 year old son. He's an only child. And the lady says he's an artifical insemination child which is why he has no father. The kid loved my wife in that 7 months of working with his mother. 

My wife agreed to stay later as requested. 

 

It turned out something fowl may have happened between the kid and the lady's boyfriend. Maybe at the boyfriends house or a different location, but not at her home where my wife worked. 

 

The reason we found out is because the kid told my wife that "Ryan is bad now". And prior to that, the kid loved Ryan like a father. He then told my wife something along lines of the Ryan guy putting something in his rear end area. It even pains to type this. 

 

For even further validation, the lady had another nanny that worked at nights and weekends to relieve my wife. The other nanny textd my wife and said the kid told her the same thing. We still have the text messages. 

 

The following week after that whole incident, the lady said she was moving out. She then kept going to hotels just about every day as if she was trying to avoid being home. My wife was actually going to different hotels to work with her and basically entertain the kid. The hotels were fairly expensive, running between 200-400 per night. My wife said she found a mail letter in the lady's car from some type of child abuse agency regarding the kid Lewi.

 

So now we're up to the final week of working with her. My wife was the one packing up all of her things. On the final day, the lady was not home. She instructed my wife to just leave the keys in the apartment. My wife did that, and that was the last time we saw her. 

 

Shortly after is when we asked for the pay, and the lady said she's on a camping trip in the middle of the woods and that she doesn't have signal to send the payment. 

 

Very sketchy. 

 

Basically this whole conflict is over now I believe. Her last text messages, she threatened my wifes citizenship, then I brought up the fact that my wife was concerned about her son, and i told her to please leave us alone. Since then, the lady hasn't responded. 

 

So i believe the story is all done now but I have other text message screenshots i can post here if anyone wants to see them. 

 

 

 

 

[Lamargrant3787 30]

4 minutes ago, GRANTMAN1987@GMAI said:

Yeah we have a lot of texts to support everything. For some odd reason the lady preferred to text rather than call which showed me she's not really serious, just trying to antagonize my wife. 

 

The lady advertised on Housekeeper. Com website for a full time nanny for $14hr. During the interview I believe they agreed again to $14hr, but I was not at the interview so I can't be sure. When my wife first received pay, it turned out to be $13hr. I didn't make a deal of it, I thought maybe just a misunderstanding. 

 

The lady has very sociopathic tendencies.

We noticed every single week, she wouldn't pay the full check on time. She would say "I can pay $500 now and then 400 on Monday as I have maxed out with cashapp". 

 

One time in particular, my wife had to ask her for even the first initial payment on payday. The lady responded saying "I always pay on Fridays at 5pm." That threw me off guard and made me think maybe I didn't notice and maybe we're being too anxious or paranoid about the paycheck. The next following payday at 5pm, STILL no payment. Thats when I realized she's good at blaming others and making them feel guilty for her crimes. 

 

Here's the part where it really gets sketchy: 

 

It was during the last couple of weeks my wife worked with her. On a Friday, my wife was set to finish her shift. She had a dentist appointment scheduled right after. The lady then sent a text saying "Can you please cancel your appointment and stay longer to watch Lewi, because I have a crisis that I'm going through".

 

Lewi is her 5 year old son. He's an only child. And the lady says he's an artifical insemination child which is why he has no father. The kid loved my wife in that 7 months of working with his mother. 

My wife agreed to stay later as requested. 

 

It turned out something fowl may have happened between the kid and the lady's boyfriend. Maybe at the boyfriends house or a different location, but not at her home where my wife worked. 

 

The reason we found out is because the kid told my wife that "Ryan is bad now". And prior to that, the kid loved Ryan like a father. He then told my wife something along lines of the Ryan guy putting something in his rear end area. It even pains to type this. 

 

For even further validation, the lady had another nanny that worked at nights and weekends to relieve my wife. The other nanny textd my wife and said the kid told her the same thing. We still have the text messages. 

 

The following week after that whole incident, the lady said she was moving out. She then kept going to hotels just about every day as if she was trying to avoid being home. My wife was actually going to different hotels to work with her and basically entertain the kid. The hotels were fairly expensive, running between 200-400 per night. My wife said she found a mail letter in the lady's car from some type of child abuse agency regarding the kid Lewi.

 

So now we're up to the final week of working with her. My wife was the one packing up all of her things. On the final day, the lady was not home. She instructed my wife to just leave the keys in the apartment. My wife did that, and that was the last time we saw her. 

 

Shortly after is when we asked for the pay, and the lady said she's on a camping trip in the middle of the woods and that she doesn't have signal to send the payment. 

 

Very sketchy. 

 

Basically this whole conflict is over now I believe. Her last text messages, she threatened my wifes citizenship, then I brought up the fact that my wife was concerned about her son, and i told her to please leave us alone. Since then, the lady hasn't responded. 

 

So i believe the story is all done now but I have other text message screenshots i can post here if anyone wants to see them. 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I mixed the story a little bit. 

 

After she said she had a crisis, my wife continued to work with her in the hotels and such because we didn't know what the crisis was. 

 

It wasn't until the final week working with her that the kid told my wife that stuff about the boyfriend. And also finding that mail letter in the lady's car was during the final week.