Blackouts in Texas as Big Freeze Upends Energy Markets

[Steeleballz 7,550]

24 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

"uncalled for"?  As a resident of Texas, I am interested in this thread. I would like to see more information.   I DO hang out here all day......since VJ is such an educational and entertaining place.

 

  Uncalled for as in some of us have had those types of posts removed in the past and warned. 

[Crazy Cat 42,264]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Uncalled for as in some of us have had those types of posts removed in the past and warned. 

My comment simply meant I am anxiously waiting to see more information......I fail to see how that is a violation of the TOS....or how it could be seen as offensive.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[Bug&Bug 147]

2 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

so enlighten us, along with a link to $9000 MWh electricity

Here you go for the data on real time pricing for ERCOT, put in the dates and you will see it went up to 9000MWh wich is the ERCOT cap on the price:

http://www.energyonline.com/Data/GenericData.aspx?DataId=4

 

I honestly cant spend 2h writing a lecture on how the electrical marketplace works. But I am sure there is plenty on info online you could research.

 

But basically in Texas wich is pretty much unregulated, the marketplace price clears depending on the demand and supply, with scarcity increasing the price.

Because the demand was very high against the supply to the point that they had to shed off load, the market price skyrocketed to between 1200 and the 9000 cap. Refer to the data in the link for example.

 

What that letter you posted says effectively as I put before, is that the generators could sell extra power over the legal limit under 2 conditions: that the emergency was in place and that there was enough scarcity for the MWh to be clearing above 1500.

[Ban Hammer 13,530]

for one member - if you think something is offensive, use the report button. 

do not hijack this thread with pedantic bickering about definitions.

[Ban Hammer 13,530]

8 minutes ago, Bug&Bug said:

Here you go for the data on real time pricing for ERCOT, put in the dates and you will see it went up to 9000MWh wich is the ERCOT cap on the price:

http://www.energyonline.com/Data/GenericData.aspx?DataId=4

 

I honestly cant spend 2h writing a lecture on how the electrical marketplace works. But I am sure there is plenty on info online you could research.

 

But basically in Texas wich is pretty much unregulated, the marketplace price clears depending on the demand and supply, with scarcity increasing the price.

Because the demand was very high against the supply to the point that they had to shed off load, the market price skyrocketed to between 1200 and the 9000 cap. Refer to the data in the link for example.

 

What that letter you posted says effectively as I put before, is that the generators could sell extra power over the legal limit under 2 conditions: that the emergency was in place and that there was enough scarcity for the MWh to be clearing above 1500.

my issue is that last part - instead of solving issues, it created a seller's market and the consumer was raked over the coals.  the pricing in the memo was about 14 times the average rate texans were paying.  does this not seem like some political lesson was being taught here?

[Bug&Bug 147]

19 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

my issue is that last part - instead of solving issues, it created a seller's market and the consumer was raked over the coals.  the pricing in the memo was about 14 times the average rate texans were paying.  does this not seem like some political lesson was being taught here?

I dont see it that way? The market already exists and the consumer can loose big time in a full-on unregulated market like Texas'. But thats a Texas thing, not a federal thing.

 

That lettetr is a "sure you can go above the legal limit but just as long as there is a need, not when there is not a need". Hope that makes sense.

[Ban Hammer 13,530]

14 minutes ago, Bug&Bug said:

I dont see it that way? The market already exists and the consumer can loose big time in a full-on unregulated market like Texas'. But thats a Texas thing, not a federal thing.

 

That lettetr is a "sure you can go above the legal limit but just as long as there is a need, not when there is not a need". Hope that makes sense.

it became a federal thing when the feds told them the minimum price to charge

[Bug&Bug 147]

I honestly dont think I can explain it more clearly.

You really want to blame the feds for the fact the Texas electrical engineering and regulation was rubbish and for how the Texas independent electrical marketplace works...Oh well. 

[Bug&Bug 147]

2 hours ago, Lucky Cat said:

****crickets******

 

I am curious as to how my next electric bill will look.  I normally pay about .10759/Kwh.  I use less than the average Texas household.

That really depends on the type of contract you have with the power distribution company. If you are on fixed rate you are fine, if you are on variable you might have an increase. If you are on the super-variable-on-steroids-marketplace-price-type then you might be in deep trouble.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Bug&Bug said:

I honestly dont think I can explain it more clearly.

You really want to blame the feds for the fact the Texas electrical engineering and regulation was rubbish and for how the Texas independent electrical marketplace works...Oh well. 

 

  Seems to be the heart of the issue. Texas created all of the problems that led to this. The only place to point the finger is at themselves. 

[Crazy Cat 42,264]

1 minute ago, Bug&Bug said:

That really depends on the type of contract you have with the power distribution company. If you are on fixed rate you are fine, if you are on variable you might have an increase. If you are on the super-variable-on-steroids-marketplace-price-type then you might be in deep trouble.

My only Electricity option is Farmers Electric Cooperative.   I'm not sure how our coop buys power. 

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Now it’s time to start working on it so it doesn’t happen again. Live and learn. 

[Ban Hammer 13,530]

53 minutes ago, Bug&Bug said:

I honestly dont think I can explain it more clearly.

You really want to blame the feds for the fact the Texas electrical engineering and regulation was rubbish and for how the Texas independent electrical marketplace works...Oh well. 

regarding your opinion that it was rubbish - as you indicate you are well versed in what is rubbish about it, please explain what is wrong.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

32 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

Now it’s time to start working on it so it doesn’t happen again. Live and learn. 

 

  They are. By blaming the feds and AOC.

[Bug&Bug 147]

18 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

regarding your opinion that it was rubbish - as you indicate you are well versed in what is rubbish about it, please explain what is wrong.

Do I really need to explain this?

 

On the engineering side: you might have noticed the network was not winter proof, and did not have enough capacity, redundancy or integrity. It needs serious end-to-end infrastructure improvements to be able to cope with weather events that are becoming more and more common due to climate change.

 

On the market side: well I have this crazy view that a system where the MWh can go up to 9000 and sold on that price to customers that are having outages is rubbish. 

 

I dont know, it might be me been crazy but what happened last week doesnt scream good electrical network to me.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Bug&Bug