Moved out after being sworn in as usa citizenship

[ThaOne 101]

5 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

I have never said that it is OK to lie or misrepresent oneself to immigration. You are making assumptions about the OP's case and about me.  I am not encouarging anyone to be dishonest.  I AM SAYING THAT immigration FRAUD IS DIFFICULT TO PROVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  But, if the OP thinks he/she can prove it, then, by all means, report it!!

 

This is amazing. Now you are going back to this argument? Sorry to say but your determination into proving that because of the number of posts you have, that somehow makes you an expert is clearly astounding!

You said initially: "This is not an immigration issue. It's just a civil issue".

And I said that even though it may be difficult to prove (if it is) it remains also an immigration issue. And I said that something being difficult to prove doesn't make it not a crime because it's difficult to prove. A reasonable person would have said, "it is definitely a civil issue, but it also is an immigration issue if he lied to USCIS at the time if he already was planning all this". That is what I said. You said NO it's not an immigration issue. Now you are saying that it's not an immigration issue because it's difficult to prove? Makes no sense whatsoever. Plus how do you know it's difficult to prove? What would make it an immigration issue in your eyes? If she found a text message of the affair and the plans the day before the interview? A crime is a crime whether easy to prove or not. It's still a fraud. 

[Crazy Cat 41,761]

2 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

You said initially: "This is not an immigration issue. It's just a civil issue".

Please link the quote where I said that......although I think it is true.

[Crazy Cat 41,761]

4 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

What would make it an immigration issue in your eyes? If she found a text message of the affair and the plans the day before the interview?

If she found a text from the spouse saying "I married my spouse so that I could become a citizen"......then THAT would be good evidence of fraud.

[laylalex 7,284]

It really is hard to prove immigration fraud. I've been on VJ for about 2 years, much less time than Lucky Cat, and I've seen maybe two or three cases where someone was successful in proving it. You need more than just circumstantial evidence of timing, you need emails and texts and whatnot. One text or email along the lines of "UGH! I hate her and I wish I could be with you forever" isn't going to cut it. There needs to be a lot of proof, because proving fraud is difficult. I remember the woman who found out her husband was gay and was using her to get into the US -- her marriage was annulled for fraud. I think she had a lot of evidence though. It happens, but it's hard. Sometimes it's just not worth it -- we don't have infinite reserves of money and time to prove something that's only a hunch. I have read a million times on here that most allegations of fraud sent to USCIS by ex-spouses are just not pursued because there's little to no evidence. Something along the lines of 

2 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

If she found a text from the spouse saying "I married my spouse so that I could become a citizen"......then THAT would be good evidence of fraud.

could open an investigation, but not love notes to a girlfriend that don't make it clear that there is deceit afoot.

[Lemonslice 4,824]

On 2/13/2021 at 1:20 PM, ThaOne said:

The oath took place December of 2020. Just a month and a half ago. So after that he met someone had an affair and in less than 1 month and a half moved in with the person? Come on? Yes! As you state, it's obviously a failed marriage. But if the guy knew he was having an affair (I would be surprised he didn't) prior to his interview and sat down before the officer at the interview and pretended to be in a loving relationship with his wife, how do you qualify that? Did he not lie to the officer? And what happens do you reckon when USCIS finds out you lied? What do you think happens if you don't disclose a crime you committed in your country and did not mention it on the form and some time later USCIS finds out about it even after having granted your n400? Do you think they say that since they didn't catch it at the time, then it's okay? Come on.

... OP can follow your path and spend energy on seeking revenge, or whatever the result of being able to prove fraud would be (you wrote she could be found to be an accomplice? Not sure an accomplice in which capacity, but sounds scary.. ).

 

Or, she can divorce, move on and live her best life.   Many ways to live, but we only get so little time.

[ThaOne 101]

4 minutes ago, laylalex said:

You are confusing polygamy with polyamory/cheating. You can't be a polygamist unless you're married to more than one person. Cheating isn't illegal -- polygamy is.

 

You're also making a whole lot of presumptions. How do you know that when he filed the petition he didn't plan on staying in the marriage? How do you know when he went to the interview he wasn't planning on staying in the marriage? My ex had no intention of divorcing me the whole time he was cheating on me. It wasn't until he got obsessed with the idea that I was cheating that he was done. If that had not happened, I have no doubt I'd still be married to him and he'd be having his affairs. 

 

Being faithful isn't part of the equation for citizenship. We can't presume anything here because we don't have a lot of facts.

Okay. You seem to be here to talk about your experience more than anything else. What happened to you is irrelevant to me to be honest. I even tried to explain to you that the polygamy statement, had nothing to do with what is happening here, but it would be the same thing as someone saying he isn't in a polygamous relationship at the interview. That would be lying too. Then you retorqued by saying polygamy is okay to become a US citizen. Which I responded actually polygamy is a crime in the US and one would be denied. Now you are trying to give me a lesson on relationships and definitions of polygamy which I said from the start isn't the issue here. But regardless you have in plain black and white you saying polygamy is OKAY for citizenship. I mean I can't debate with that. The only people presuming things here are you and the other one who only made presumptions. And talking about your personal relationship failures. Read what the OP said. As for your relationship not sure how it is relevant for me to know that if you were still married with him he would still be having an affair? I don't care. That's a civil issue. Deal with him.

If someone says one thing at the interview which isn't correct and knows at the time that it isn't it's fraud. Whether you had a bad relationship or not, that's just a fact. This is insane.

[laylalex 7,284]

You don't seem to understand the concept of polygamy when it comes to the law. It has a real legal meaning, and it doesn't include regular old cheating. Being a polygamist = bar to becoming a citizen. Being a cheater = not a bar to becoming a citizen.

 

I like to give personal examples because I think real life experience can be a way of telling a story that's more accessible and easier to parse. Also I like paragraphs.  

 

PS: Also "retorque" is for lugnuts, not for conversation.  

[Crazy Cat 41,761]

13 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

The "other one" is saying that since something is difficult to prove then it's not a crime

Nope.  I never said that at all. I am leaving this conversation as I don't want to violate the terms of service for VJ.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[Boiler 45,428]

34 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

Please link the quote where I said that......although I think it is true.

I said it.

 

Certainly my recollection is that you have to be in marital union. 

1. Married and Living in Marital Union

In general, all naturalization applicants filing on the basis of marriage to a U.S. citizen must continue to be the spouse of a U.S. citizen from the time of filing the naturalization application until the applicant takes the Oath of Allegiance. In addition, some spousal naturalization provisions require that the applicant “live in marital union” with his or her citizen spouse for at least 3 years immediately preceding the date of filing the naturalization application. ^[19] USCIS considers an applicant to “live in marital union” with his or her citizen spouse if the applicant and the citizen actually reside together.

An applicant does not meet the married and “living in marital union” requirements if:

• The applicant is not residing with his or her U.S. citizen spouse at the time of filing or during the time in which the applicant is required to be living in marital union with the U.S. citizen spouse; or

• The marital relationship is terminated at any time prior to taking the Oath of Allegiance.

If the applicant ceases to reside with his or her U.S. citizen spouse between the time of filing and the time at which the applicant takes the Oath of Allegiance, the officer should consider whether the applicant met the living in marital union requirement at the time of filing.

There are limited circumstances where an applicant may be able to establish that he or she is living in marital union with his or her citizen spouse even though the applicant does not actually reside with the citizen spouse. ^[20] 

In all cases where it is applicable, the burden is on the applicant to establish that he or she has lived in marital union with his or her U.S. citizen spouse for the required period of time. ^[21] 

 

[Boiler 45,428]

Quick addition, I know Love and Loving is mentioned on heer quite a bit but I have not come across either in the regulations.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Boiler

[Lemonslice 4,824]

Just now, Boiler said:

Quick addition, I know Love and Loving is mentioned on heer quite a bit but I have not come across either in the regulations.

Sexual, or romantic, exclusivity is also nowhere to be found.

[laylalex 7,284]

Just now, Boiler said:

Quick addition, I know Love and Loving is mentioned on her quite a bit but I have not come across either in the regulations.

You can also love your spouse and love someone else at the same time. This is one of the definitions of polyamory.

[Boiler 45,428]

Not all of us live in LA but I have come across a few ####### situations and can see why an agency would not want to go there.

[Crazy Cat 41,761]

"Live is too short to be miserable.  We, all, should seek as much happiness as we can find......."

- GB, "Old Man of wide life experience".

[Crazy Cat 41,761]

None of us have ANY idea as to everything which transpired AFTER the interview. None of us have the whole story.  Is it possible that something could have happened AFTER the interview which caused the spouse to take those actions?  Yes, it is possible.......It is impossible for any of us to know what was in the mind of the OP's spouse PRIOR to the interview.....and the OP gave us no information regarding ANYTHING prior to the interview....and the OP hasn't returned to share any other information.

 

It has been a fun topic...but I'm done......

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lucky Cat