Moved out after being sworn in as usa citizenship

[TBoneTX 45,831]

Two derisive, bickering posts have been removed.  We can disagree without being disagreeable.

 

VJ Moderation

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

7 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

The oath took place December of 2020. Just a month and a half ago. So after that he met someone had an affair and in less than 1 month and a half moved in with the person? Come on? Yes! As you state, it's obviously a failed marriage. But if the guy knew he was having an affair (I would be surprised he didn't) prior to his interview and sat down before the officer at the interview and pretended to be in a loving relationship with his wife, how do you qualify that? Did he not lie to the officer? And what happens do you reckon when USCIS finds out you lied? What do you think happens if you don't disclose a crime you committed in your country and did not mention it on the form and some time later USCIS finds out about it even after having granted your n400? Do you think they say that since they didn't catch it at the time, then it's okay? Come on.

You might be correct.  But without any solid evidence, speculation is just speculation.

[ThaOne 101]

On 2/13/2021 at 1:12 PM, Lucky Cat said:

I would be surprised if the OP has been holding proof of fraud for several years.   The OP has not mentioned a single element of fraud...only symptoms of a failed marriage.  

Just to be clear and end this discussion, please read what I said from the start. I agree with you if they were married and went through some issues afterwards, after the oath. Even if it's 1 day later if he met someone after that, then it's just civil. You can legitimately be married to someone then go through a divorce even after getting your immigration status sorted out. That's just a civil issue. Not an issue for USCIS. But the OP said it appears as soon as he got his oath ceremony (less than a month and a half ago), he moved out with someone he was having an affair with. You keep on talking about how hard it is to prove. The second sentence of my first post, I said exactly that. But even if something is difficult to prove which maybe she can prove easily, but, even if difficult doesn't make it not an immigration case. When we take the oath and raise our hand to say that we "swear to say the truth and nothing but the truth", there is a reason for that. So USCIS can legally determine that you have no good moral character (a liar) and they can deny you legally and you would not have any recourse. If the husband ALREADY was having an affair and had PREMEDITATED moving out as soon as he was done with immigration, that is immigration fraud whether difficult to prove or not. That is irrelevant. If he went to his interview based on being married to a US citizen after 3 years, he had to prove during the interview that he was still in a relationship with the person. He showed pictures of him and his wife. He displayed the image of being in a solid relationship at the time of the interview, but he was lying because he had already plans to leave as soon as he was done. How is that not an immigration issue (as well as a civil issue when they divorce)? Then what would be the goal of signing the YES/NO questions in our applications, checking that we are "Married", "Divorced", "Separated", "Widowed"...? If we can check and say whatever we want and do whatever we want. The fact that someone robs a bank whether you can prove that he did or not, doesn't determine whether the crime has been committed or not. I am just saying that when you and the other one are saying that it's not an immigration case, just a civil one you are misleading people into thinking that as long as they are not caught then it is okay to say what you want at the interview. It isn't. This would be a clear case of immigration fraud if he was living a double life. This is a form of polygamy (which we also swear not to be involved in when we apply for N400). 

It's the whole basis of filing for N400 under the 3 year rule. The first criteria is to be in a genuine bona fide relationship at the time you are applying/talking to the officer.

So to close this on my side I wanted to make sure you didn't give ideas to people that they can apply for N400s, lie knowingly, and if they don't get caught at the time then it's okay, whatever they did just becomes a civil or other case. If you get a benefit claiming something, they will take back that benefit if it was based on a lie. That's why you sign those documents so they can hold you accountable should they discover something. So as I said from the start, this would also be a case for immigration fraud, but also a civil case (divorce). I am shocked that anyone on an immigration forum, especially for this long would fail to see that and keep on repeating that it  is okay because difficult to prove. Difficult or not it still is immigration fraud, if he knew what he was doing at the time of interview.

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

21 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

So to close this on my side I wanted to make sure you didn't give ideas to people that they can apply for N400s, lie knowingly, and if they don't get caught at the time then it's okay,

I'm not sure how anyone could interpret what I posted like that...But lying to immigration and fraud are never OK.  If you had any knowledge of my post history, you would know that I don't condone dishonesty.  However, I am aware of reality when trying to prove fraud.   

 

21 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

I am shocked that anyone on an immigration forum, especially for this long would fail to see that and keep on repeating that it  is okay because difficult to prove.

I never said or implied any such thing. I said fraud is hard to prove.  The truth is that hard evidence speaks louder than words spoken after a failed marriage. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

19 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

This would be a clear case of immigration fraud if he was living a double life.

Maybe.  If obtaining immigration benefits was the sole reason for the marriage, then it could be classified as fraud.

 

19 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

I am just saying that when you and the other one are saying that it's not an immigration case, just a civil one you are misleading people into thinking that as long as they are not caught then it is okay to say what you want at the interview.

That is an absurd interpretation of what I said.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[ThaOne 101]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:38 AM, Lucky Cat said:

None of those things sound illegal.

This is what you stated: "None of those things sound illegal."

Now you are saying you never said that.

Pointless discussion.

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

5 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

This is what you stated: "None of those things sound illegal."

Now you are saying you never said that.

Pointless discussion.

Moving out is not illegal

Closing bank accounts is not illegal.

Acting "nasty" is not illegal.

Having an affair is not illegal.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

 

If the OP has solid evidence that the spouse entered the marriage for the sole purpose of receiving immigration benefits, there might be a case.  

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[laylalex 7,293]

Sometimes really bad stuff happens that is just really bad stuff in a marriage, not fraud. My ex (who came over on a K1) accused me of cheating on him and moved out, when in fact it was the other way around. He cut off my access to all my funds (I was only an authorized user on his credit cards) and pretty much emptied our one joint bank account. He was an abusive monster. But we entered our marriage in good faith, it just ended poorly. He applied for citizenship soon after he left me and I was ecstatic when he was sworn in because it was another tie between us severed. Believe me, when all this went down, everyone around me started accusing him of fraud, but it was just a bad thing that happened.

 

Also for it to be polygamy, you have to married to more than one person. Being a polyamorous person isn't a bar to becoming a citizen. 

[ThaOne 101]

1 minute ago, Lucky Cat said:

Moving out is not illegal

Closing bank accounts is not illegal.

Acting "nasty" is not illegal.

Having an affair is not illegal.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

 

 

Did I say any of that is illegal? My posts are still there. Please read. 

You keep on moving the goal posts. And you are wrong. It is not illegal to divorce after the fact. It is illegal to have an affair or already be in a relationship and go to the interview and pretend to be in a bona fide marriage. Your doubling down on denying this simple fact is preoccupying and raises concerns on what kind of advice you may have been giving people here. I stated many times, if he ALREADY knew he was in an affair or planned on leaving and closing the bank account at the time of the interview then it means he misrepresented himself during the interview. You come back with  "Moving out is not illegal, Closing a bank account is not illegal...". Who said that was? So what you are saying is encouraging people to open bank accounts jointly, not be in a bona fide relationship, know all this, file for n400, then just close everything after the oath, because closing a bank account isn't illegal then everything is okay?

Pointless discussion and a waste of my time.

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

8 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

Did I say any of that is illegal? My posts are still there. Please read. 

You keep on moving the goal posts. And you are wrong. It is not illegal to divorce after the fact. It is illegal to have an affair or already be in a relationship and go to the interview and pretend to be in a bona fide marriage. Your doubling down on denying this simple fact is preoccupying and raises concerns on what kind of advice you may have been giving people here. I stated many times, if he ALREADY knew he was in an affair or planned on leaving and closing the bank account at the time of the interview then it means he misrepresented himself during the interview. You come back with  "Moving out is not illegal, Closing a bank account is not illegal...". Who said that was? So what you are saying is encouraging people to open bank accounts jointly, not be in a bona fide relationship, know all this, file for n400, then just close everything after the oath, because closing a bank account isn't illegal then everything is okay?

Pointless discussion and a waste of my time.

I have never said that it is OK to lie or misrepresent oneself to immigration. You are making assumptions about the OP's case and about me.  I am not encouarging anyone to be dishonest.  I AM SAYING THAT immigration FRAUD IS DIFFICULT TO PROVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  But, if the OP thinks he/she can prove it, then, by all means, report it!!

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[laylalex 7,293]

I don't think it's illegal to be having an affair at the time of filing/interviewing. A bona fide marriage doesn't preclude having an affair -- the cheater could have every intention of staying in the marriage and having their boyfriend/girlfriend on the side. 

 

Look, I understand you feel strongly about this. I was cheated on, and it's something I won't stand for in my current marriage -- I made it crystal clear to my new husband (we married last year) while we were figuring out if we wanted to be a couple. I told him if he wants to play away, to let me know ASAP because I need a heads up for contacting my divorce lawyer. He knows what's on the line, and he agreed. But it's a huge leap to assume it's fraud when it's more likely just a very bad thing that happened. One of the best pieces of advice I got during my divorce was to learn how to pick my battles. A lot of things aren't worth the emotional and financial toll they will take on you. Sometimes it's best to let the other person just wallow in the mess they've made for themselves. 

[ThaOne 101]

1 minute ago, laylalex said:

Sometimes really bad stuff happens that is just really bad stuff in a marriage, not fraud. My ex (who came over on a K1) accused me of cheating on him and moved out, when in fact it was the other way around. He cut off my access to all my funds (I was only an authorized user on his credit cards) and pretty much emptied our one joint bank account. He was an abusive monster. But we entered our marriage in good faith, it just ended poorly. He applied for citizenship soon after he left me and I was ecstatic when he was sworn in because it was another tie between us severed. Believe me, when all this went down, everyone around me started accusing him of fraud, but it was just a bad thing that happened.

 

Also for it to be polygamy, you have to married to more than one person. Being a polyamorous person isn't a bar to becoming a citizen. 

You may have been misled by the other poster's false claims. Your ex and yourself were married. At the time of his green card you were in a true marriage. At the time of his application you may have been in a true marriage. There is nothing wrong with that if afterwards you divorce or he was nasty to you. But if in the OPs case while he was filing he had NO intention on staying with the person, then he should not have filed the way he did. Because he was lying at the time already. Not sure how else to say this. I never said that if you apply based on marriage it means that you have to live the rest of your life with that person. NO! But if at the time of the interview he already knew that he had no intention, then he misrepresented himself. It's fraud. End of story. 

Polygamy is illegal and a crime in the US by the way. So if you are saying that it doesn't bar you from becoming a citizen, then why do they ask you in the YES/NO questions whether you are? Why do they ask you to attach proof that you have terminated all previous marriage? Anyway this wasn't the point as I feel the discussion will go towards polygamy, which this isn't really about. It was just a comparison to polygamy, because the guy went to the interview saying he was in a loving bona fide relationship with the OP, while actually having and affair with another person, and as soon as he had his oath left. How is that difficult to understand is beyond me.

[laylalex 7,293]

You are confusing polygamy with polyamory/cheating. You can't be a polygamist unless you're married to more than one person. Cheating isn't illegal -- polygamy is.

 

You're also making a whole lot of presumptions. How do you know that when he filed the petition he didn't plan on staying in the marriage? How do you know when he went to the interview he wasn't planning on staying in the marriage? My ex had no intention of divorcing me the whole time he was cheating on me. It wasn't until he got obsessed with the idea that I was cheating that he was done. If that had not happened, I have no doubt I'd still be married to him and he'd be having his affairs. 

 

Being faithful isn't part of the equation for citizenship. We can't presume anything here because we don't have a lot of facts.

[Crazy Cat 42,032]

7 minutes ago, ThaOne said:

You may have been misled by the other poster's false claims.

Obviously, you don't know @laylalex.  Misled?   Never!!!!

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[laylalex 7,293]

1 minute ago, Lucky Cat said:

Obviously, you don't know @laylalex.  Misled?   Never!!!!

I also wanted to give you a Haha reaction but we are only limited to one so