USCIS agent Verbally Denied my AOS at Interview

[Ed&Midori1031 330]

I am sorry that it is happened with you and I hope you can get it worked out.

[Henrison 3]

5 minutes ago, Ed&Midori1031 said:

I am sorry that it is happened with you and I hope you can get it worked out.

Thank you and im going thought a lot at this moments grand parents just passed way from Covid and more family members are in hospital with the same virus just to top it off this immigration situation that I was not ready or never thought would happen to me specifically when I checked with multiple law experts.😔

[INF 96]

17 minutes ago, Henrison said:

Thank you and im going thought a lot at this moments grand parents just passed way from Covid and more family members are in hospital with the same virus just to top it off this immigration situation that I was not ready or never thought would happen to me specifically when I checked with multiple law experts.😔

I don’t ever take lawyers words for themselves. I do my own research too! A simple google search and this forum will tell you a lot! I’m so sorry you have to deal with all this. Just make sure you learn all your lessons going forward and double/triple check everything with immigration from now on! You will be okay, lots of people have gamed this system (yourself included for a long time).

Edited February 12, 2021 by INF

[INF 96]

7 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Which “they” do you mean here? 

Him and his family. The lawyers or USCIS not to blame as they probably didn’t understand the situation completely. I have never gotten THIS bad advice from a lawyer. They do want to help.

[African Zealot 1,455]

It appears this thread has run its course.

[Villanelle 4,122]

From my understanding of the denial process in general- the Officer/local office has a bit of leeway in deciding whether or not to send a denied 485 case to removal proceedings and if so at what speed. The overall policy is pretty straightforward about how denied cases need/should be sent/entered into the court system and HRQX described in detail the bits about how being a VWP impacts such (ie does not need to go to removal instead can be directly deemed deportable).

 

Based on what was posted by the OP it would appear the Officer suggested he would 'hold' the file at this time (ie not forward it to removal/deportation) as a courtesy to give the couple a chance to get her citizenship sorted. If so the OP should expect to receive the standard denial letter which includes wording of 'you must leave in X days as you have no status etc etc'. There will be no official statement that the file is being held as a courtesy and no one will give you such a confirmation. The best metaphor I can use (which is probably inappropriate since it refers to garbage -sorry its all I can come up with now ) is to compare it to when you delete a file on your computer. It goes to the recycle bin. Its been deleted but its still 'there'. Its only when you empty the trash can that its actually deleted from your computer. So when you are denied your case goes to the recycle bin of sorts. It sits in their system in a temporary fashion waiting to be permanently deleted (sent to court for removal or directly to deportation if you are VWP and not entitled to court). Your case can end up sitting waiting for the permanent action to occur for a very long time or it can be quick. Typically cases that are denied are held for a minimal period in case an appeal is filed but again they can hold it longer if they choose to. So it sounds like the Officer was saying he is going to hold the denial from moving forward- for how long? Thats unknown. It would depend on the Officer and the local offices internal policies about how many cases they 'hold' after denial and for how long. Again no one will give you any official documentation or verification of a denied case being held as a courtesy and if it is being held as such no promise of how long it will be held as such. 

 

As others have mentioned the best course of action right now is to get the wife citizenship asap so the husband has a valid path to immigrate. They can also file an appeal (even though the denial will state an appeal can not be filed and they dont actually have a valid basis to appeal). They should speak to an EXPERIENCED attny about doing such. Filing an appeal would 'reopen' his current AOS filing making his EAD valid once more and the appeals process can take 3-6-9 months depending on how its filed. This would place him back into authorized stay for a while. The appeal will cost a bit of money in filing and attny fees and I would encourage them if attempting to do such to use an attny to file it. Filing baseless appeals is not only frowned upon but can hurt your case overall so its important to use an attny to help you with such. Theres a fine line between filing frivolously just to extend benefits and filing a legitimate appeal challenging/questioning the denial (which would most likely be denied but is none the less allowed to be filed and run its course). 

 

[Henrison 3]

22 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

From my understanding of the denial process in general- the Officer/local office has a bit of leeway in deciding whether or not to send a denied 485 case to removal proceedings and if so at what speed. The overall policy is pretty straightforward about how denied cases need/should be sent/entered into the court system and HRQX described in detail the bits about how being a VWP impacts such (ie does not need to go to removal instead can be directly deemed deportable).

 

Based on what was posted by the OP it would appear the Officer suggested he would 'hold' the file at this time (ie not forward it to removal/deportation) as a courtesy to give the couple a chance to get her citizenship sorted. If so the OP should expect to receive the standard denial letter which includes wording of 'you must leave in X days as you have no status etc etc'. There will be no official statement that the file is being held as a courtesy and no one will give you such a confirmation. The best metaphor I can use (which is probably inappropriate since it refers to garbage -sorry its all I can come up with now ) is to compare it to when you delete a file on your computer. It goes to the recycle bin. Its been deleted but its still 'there'. Its only when you empty the trash can that its actually deleted from your computer. So when you are denied your case goes to the recycle bin of sorts. It sits in their system in a temporary fashion waiting to be permanently deleted (sent to court for removal or directly to deportation if you are VWP and not entitled to court). Your case can end up sitting waiting for the permanent action to occur for a very long time or it can be quick. Typically cases that are denied are held for a minimal period in case an appeal is filed but again they can hold it longer if they choose to. So it sounds like the Officer was saying he is going to hold the denial from moving forward- for how long? Thats unknown. It would depend on the Officer and the local offices internal policies about how many cases they 'hold' after denial and for how long. Again no one will give you any official documentation or verification of a denied case being held as a courtesy and if it is being held as such no promise of how long it will be held as such. 

 

As others have mentioned the best course of action right now is to get the wife citizenship asap so the husband has a valid path to immigrate. They can also file an appeal (even though the denial will state an appeal can not be filed and they dont actually have a valid basis to appeal). They should speak to an EXPERIENCED attny about doing such. Filing an appeal would 'reopen' his current AOS filing making his EAD valid once more and the appeals process can take 3-6-9 months depending on how its filed. This would place him back into authorized stay for a while. The appeal will cost a bit of money in filing and attny fees and I would encourage them if attempting to do such to use an attny to file it. Filing baseless appeals is not only frowned upon but can hurt your case overall so its important to use an attny to help you with such. Theres a fine line between filing frivolously just to extend benefits and filing a legitimate appeal challenging/questioning the denial (which would most likely be denied but is none the less allowed to be filed and run its course). 

 

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and yes at this moment all hopes goes straight to what's the letter would say but if odds are not in my favor I'm preparing my self and my family to move all together back home, I know after for so many years I called US my home and my loved country but the law its the law and I understand. However my almost 15 years of paid taxes and all what that I provided to this country won't be no "Refund" and that is what it's called a Broken immigration system where no other first world country would let this happened for so many years instead when an immigrated person puts together their documents if they don't match the requirements for the country they simplify and since the beginning say no and go home... 

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

2 hours ago, Henrison said:

that is what it's called a Broken immigration system where no other first world country would let this happened for so many years instead when an immigrated person puts together their documents if they don't match the requirements for the country they simplify and since the beginning say no and go home... 

Let's be completely honest here.   You were a visitor. The US graciously allowed you to visit without a visa.  I'm pretty sure you were aware that this was supposed to be only a visit.  I am also pretty sure you were aware that you were supposed to leave at the end of that visit.  You made the decision to remain and violate the conditions of VWP.  You made the decision to remain unlawfully inside the US for 15 years.  You made the decision to marry and involve others in this situation. This isn't the fault of a "broken immigration system".   This is a case of someone ignoring the lawful immigration system.  Are you aware that there are millions of people waiting their turn  outside the US to legally immigrate?  Some of these people have to wait years and years.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Lucky Cat

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

Paying taxes doesn’t bestow any rights.

 

I agree that the system can be called broken if it allows someone illegal to live here for 15 years, with some notice of someone official (IRS) and still not get deported.  Or that someone can be illegal for 15 years, work unauthorized and have it all magically waved away with a spouse who is a USC. I guess we all define “broken” systems differently.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by SusieQQQ

[HRQX 4,145]

1 hour ago, Henrison said:

However my almost 15 years of paid taxes and all what that I provided to this country won't be no "Refund"

Taxes and immigration are separate matters.

 

You can still file taxes from abroad. If your wife naturalizes before leaving then she'll have to file every year regardless of where she resides. Now that you have a SSN you can claim the "Recovery Rebate" credit (aka stimulus) when filing taxes since you were a resident alien (for tax purposes) in 2020: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/substantial-presence-test

Edited February 13, 2021 by HRQX

[bmqsg5h3 12]

12 hours ago, Henrison said:

all hopes goes straight to what's the letter would say

 

and that is what it's called a Broken immigration system where no other first world country would let this happened for ...

 

The letter never officially says that USCIS would hold your AOS case pending until your wife becomes a USC, nor says that they give you a chance to re-file I-485 after her naturalization. It should be a standard denial notice. However, as some of us in this thread said, there would be little (but NOT zero) chance that ICE suddenly comes to your home and takes you into custody. You should convince your wife to apply for citizenship asap. How old are her kids? Talk at home in English only so that she can learn English from her kids. 2nd or 3rd grade English is enough for the interview.

 

We know that the system is broken. I guess most people in this forum are pro-immigrant, and we want to change the system to more immigrant-friendly. However, outside of this forum, different people have different opinions. For example, people like the former WH resident and his supporters want to eliminate many of immigration categories, let only immediate relatives (spouse and minor children of USC), workers with exceptional ability (EB-1/2) and investors (EB-5) obtain GC, give more power to ICE/CBP, kick all undocumented immigrants out from the country, not to allow chain migration... They also think that the current system is broken and needs to be fixed. Please check the immigration systems of the other G7/OECD member countries. You will find the US immigration system is not awfully bad.

Edited February 14, 2021 by bmqsg5h3

[Downloader 199]

12 hours ago, Henrison said:

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and yes at this moment all hopes goes straight to what's the letter would say but if odds are not in my favor I'm preparing my self and my family to move all together back home, I know after for so many years I called US my home and my loved country but the law its the law and I understand. However my almost 15 years of paid taxes and all what that I provided to this country won't be no "Refund" and that is what it's called a Broken immigration system where no other first world country would let this happened for so many years instead when an immigrated person puts together their documents if they don't match the requirements for the country they simplify and since the beginning say no and go home... 

 

In another first world country they could also have taken you into custody right there during the interview and put you in a plane same day yet until this day you are free, at home and with chances of fixing your own mistakes. 

Yes, the immigration system is broken but not in the sense that you imply. 

 

Be Greatful and take care. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Downloader

[Mollie09 1,543]

21 hours ago, Henrison said:

However my almost 15 years of paid taxes and all what that I provided to this country won't be no "Refund" and that is what it's called a Broken immigration system where no other first world country would let this happened for so many years instead when an immigrated person puts together their documents if they don't match the requirements for the country they simplify and since the beginning say no and go home... 

Why would you get a refund if you benefited from those taxes for 15 years? Did you use roads? Sidewalks? It's not like you paid taxes and got nothing out of it.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Most countries have or participate in reciprocal tax agreements. You can find such information at SSA or the similar agency in your home country. With the exception of a few (like North Korea)  most countries allow or have some sort of provision where they can count your credits earned towards your retirement benefits. Its not an issue discussed on VJ that often as it only impacts those at retirement age and generally those immigrating tend to be young or the opposite- elderly parents/relatives who do not plan on working once relocated. 

 

You can probably find information about this topic discussed by those on H1B work visas as they tend to spend years working in the US earning SS credits before returning home. They are usually able to use those credits back home or vice versa- if they came here after working significantly in their home country. The SSA regulations on this are a bit complex and while they do provide general guidance you may need to speak to a retirement planner type person (or the equivalent of the SSA in your country) about how exactly you can claim such credits. I would suggest if you do decide to leave the US that you obtain your SSA earning statements before  you do and make copies of the US tax returns you have filed. Its always easier to gather documents in advance (now) when you can easily access them then to wait 5-10 years and try to get copies from outside the US.

 

Im not going to address the negative comments made about the immigration process- I attribute it to being one of those things people say out of anger or frustration- most likely the comments were out of disappointment and I can understand the disappointment the OP is feeling. The system isnt perfect and Im sure 99% if not 100% of us would all love if it was speedier and more like the DMV where you can walk in with your package and walk out with your GC, but thats not how it is. Any general ranting about the process should be done in the appropriate format and the focus on this thread should be discussing how this can possibly be fixed and what can be expected to happen next.

 

On a side note I have no idea how the OP made it so far into the process when it seems he was clearly not eligible. It could have been something on the form was not filled out correctly so the computer system allowed it through. It could be someone manually let it through because based on how long the wife has been an LPR they assumed citizenship was in process for her (?) 

 

 

 

 

[Henrison 3]

32 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

Most countries have or participate in reciprocal tax agreements. You can find such information at SSA or the similar agency in your home country. With the exception of a few (like North Korea)  most countries allow or have some sort of provision where they can count your credits earned towards your retirement benefits. Its not an issue discussed on VJ that often as it only impacts those at retirement age and generally those immigrating tend to be young or the opposite- elderly parents/relatives who do not plan on working once relocated. 

 

You can probably find information about this topic discussed by those on H1B work visas as they tend to spend years working in the US earning SS credits before returning home. They are usually able to use those credits back home or vice versa- if they came here after working significantly in their home country. The SSA regulations on this are a bit complex and while they do provide general guidance you may need to speak to a retirement planner type person (or the equivalent of the SSA in your country) about how exactly you can claim such credits. I would suggest if you do decide to leave the US that you obtain your SSA earning statements before  you do and make copies of the US tax returns you have filed. Its always easier to gather documents in advance (now) when you can easily access them then to wait 5-10 years and try to get copies from outside the US.

 

Im not going to address the negative comments made about the immigration process- I attribute it to being one of those things people say out of anger or frustration- most likely the comments were out of disappointment and I can understand the disappointment the OP is feeling. The system isnt perfect and Im sure 99% if not 100% of us would all love if it was speedier and more like the DMV where you can walk in with your package and walk out with your GC, but thats not how it is. Any general ranting about the process should be done in the appropriate format and the focus on this thread should be discussing how this can possibly be fixed and what can be expected to happen next.

 

On a side note I have no idea how the OP made it so far into the process when it seems he was clearly not eligible. It could have been something on the form was not filled out correctly so the computer system allowed it through. It could be someone manually let it through because based on how long the wife has been an LPR they assumed citizenship was in process for her (?) 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the constructive and informative comment it helps a lot because I didn't know about the tax situation. In my head it was all over with all my contributions and retirement to IRS. About the second part no one knows exactly how it got this far other than saying it could had been a "Glitch" and skipped through the locked box . Because even the Agent said packaged was correctly filled and me and my wife asked then if was filled correctly and was not under the Bars of law for an adjustment why wasn't denied in first place ? And he said I don't know. Since the interview I been looking for solutions outside of US and in here is one of the only Countries in the world where the system is so complex that not even immigration officers many times don't know exactly the law because of the constant changes and so on goes with the Lawyers where if you missed the "news" could be a difference between become legal or being deported.