Anyone else not planning on applying for citizenship?

[Orangesapples 1,954]

18 minutes ago, Sukie said:

It's not about the ownership type.  It's about how the IRS treats non-US citizens for estate tax purposes.

 

This was one of the two reasons my spouse because a US Citizen.  The biggest reason is because we maintain houses in both countries and want the freedom to travel when we want, and we did not want to get caught by the six-month-out-of-the-US issues.  The second reason is because we ARE older (both in our mid-60s) and estate planning is something we have had to consider because of our home here in the States.

 

The last thing I wanted to do was to stick my spouse with a tax bill if I die first.

 

Sukie in NY

But if you're joint tenants, there's no inheritance. You just assume ownership. 

[Sukie 1,460]

4 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

But if you're joint tenants, there's no inheritance. You just assume ownership. 

https://blog.calprobate.com/2019/09/joint-tenancy-basics-for-non-us-citizens-and-their-spouses.html

 

 

[Marieke H 2,498]

Eventually, I will apply for citizenship; my country allows dual citizenship and I would like to be able to vote and the reasons @Sukie mentioned are important to keep in mind.

 

I am currently eligible to apply under the 3-year rule, but I am definitely not in a hurry. My husband and I have felt very uncomfortable with the K1, AOS and ROC applications and all the personal information we submitted as evidence. It all felt quite invasive to us. So if I can avoid having to send in another pile of relationship evidence with the N-400, I am happy to wait a few more years and apply under the 5-year rule. I am also not very eager to throw even more money at USCIS anytime soon, so I will probably apply closer towards the end of my 10-year green card.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Marieke H
typo

[millefleur 5,046]

17 minutes ago, Marieke H said:

Eventually, I will apply for citizenship; my country allows dual citizenship

Are you from the Netherlands (based on your profile)? I thought that they did not allow dual citizenship?

[Orangesapples 1,954]

42 minutes ago, Sukie said:

https://blog.calprobate.com/2019/09/joint-tenancy-basics-for-non-us-citizens-and-their-spouses.html

 

 

This says non citizen non resident

[Marieke H 2,498]

2 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Are you from the Netherlands (based on your profile)? I thought that they did not allow dual citizenship?

They do if you acquire a second nationality as a result of marriage to a citizen of that country. But it is an ongoing debate and things can change anytime, which is another reason why I am a bit hesitant.

[millefleur 5,046]

Just now, Marieke H said:

They do if you acquire a second nationality as a result of marriage to a citizen of that country. But it is an ongoing debate and things can change anytime, which is another reason why I am a bit hesitant.

Interesting I heard something similar about Austria, which applies to @Noname93, that if you just ask the Austrian government for permission to acquire dual citizenship and I guess "make a case for it" (have a legitimate reason as yo why you should need it) and they approve it, then technically in some cases they might allow it. You just have to get permission first. So, it seems like some countries may not allow it as a rule, but possibly might allow exceptions.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

50 minutes ago, Sukie said:

https://blog.calprobate.com/2019/09/joint-tenancy-basics-for-non-us-citizens-and-their-spouses.html

 

 

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/estate-planning-when-you-re-married-noncitizen.html

 

According to this, it's only an issue if your spouse leaves you more than 11 million dollars. If you own property worth that much (I guess it has to be worth double that because if it's jointly owned you already own half of it anyway) then that's a special case. But I assume most people on vj are not that wealthy. 

[Marieke H 2,498]

5 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Interesting I heard something similar about Austria, which applies to @Noname93, that if you just ask the Austrian government for permission to acquire dual citizenship and I guess "make a case for it" (have a legitimate reason as yo why you should need it) and they approve it, then technically in some cases they might allow it. You just have to get permission first. So, it seems like some countries may not allow it as a rule, but possibly might allow exceptions.

In general, people lose their Dutch citizenship if they acquire another citizenship, but there are a few exceptions. One exception is if you acquire the nationality of your spouse. However, interestingly, this exception does not apply to Dutch citizens who gain Austrian citizenship through marriage; apparently there is a treaty between the Netherlands and Austria that causes citizens of either country to automatically lose their original citizenship if they acquire the other country's citizenship. So this makes me think that Austria is very strict about allowing only one citizenship, without exceptions. Austria is the only country that the Netherlands has such a treaty with.

[millefleur 5,046]

Just now, Marieke H said:

In general, people lose their Dutch citizenship if they acquire another citizenship, but there are a few exceptions. One exception is if you acquire the nationality of your spouse. However, interestingly, this exception does not apply to Dutch citizens who gain Austrian citizenship through marriage; apparently there is a treaty between the Netherlands and Austria that causes citizens of either country to automatically lose their original citizenship if they acquire the other country's citizenship. So this makes me think that Austria is very strict about allowing only one citizenship, without exceptions. Austria is the only country that the Netherlands has such a treaty with.

That's so crazy....haha. Europe has some weird laws, let me tell you. I feel like if your country is at the point where you allow dual citizenship with ONE other country, just go ahead and legalize dual citizenship altogether. If they have suspicions about certain nationalities (due to unfriendly relations, etc), they can always just deny it on a case by case basis if they suspect the applicant might not be applying on good faith. That's essentially how we do it here as I understand.

[Mike E 11,739]

All it takes is a $500 traffic ticket to lose LPR status. That realization plus a simplified naturalization process caused me to file after 32 years as an LPR.

[C-ma'am 684]

5 hours ago, Sarah&Facundo said:

My husband doesn't want to become a citizen at all. The only reason he will probably do it is because we want to travel and possibly live outside the US, but we don't want to have to go through the whole visa process if we were to leave and then come back or even just visit. He told me that if his country didn't allow dual citizenship, he would never go through the citizenship process in the US.

Argentina allows dual-citizenships. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_nationality_law#:~:text=Dual citizenship is accepted by,nationalities that has an agreement.

 

In 2009 Argentina decided that the Argentine Citizenship is a human right and cannot be renounced.

 

Note that, per this article, "Unlike most other countries, Argentine citizenship cannot be renounced and can only be revoked if it was obtained through criminal means, such as fraudulent documentation.

Consequently an Argentine citizen may not be able to acquire the citizenship of a country that requires renunciation of other citizenships; however, many countries waive this requirement if renouncing the other citizenship is impossible."

 

I'm an Argie with dual-citizenship. All of my ARG family members are dual citizens.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by C-ma'am

[African Zealot 1,455]

1 hour ago, Marieke H said:

Eventually, I will apply for citizenship; my country allows dual citizenship and I would like to be able to vote and the reasons @Sukie mentioned are important to keep in mind.

 

I am currently eligible to apply under the 3-year rule, but I am definitely not in a hurry. My husband and I have felt very uncomfortable with the K1, AOS and ROC applications and all the personal information we submitted as evidence. It all felt quite invasive to us. So if I can avoid having to send in another pile of relationship evidence with the N-400, I am happy to wait a few more years and apply under the 5-year rule. I am also not very eager to throw even more money at USCIS anytime soon, so I will probably apply closer towards the end of my 10-year green card.

I am not trying to convince you otherwise however just wanted to nitpick you reasons. First of all you explanation of trying to maximize the usage of your 10 year green card subscribes to the fallacy of sunk costs. If you indeed will apply for citizenship at some point, the cheapest will be now. The cost for the 10 year green card is already sunk and does not come into the equation. Not only that, but the cost of citizenship almost inevitably will continue to rise.

 

Second although it is better to apply under the 5 year rule to reduce ones paperwork and eliminate the risk due to possible divorce and relationship problems, the reality is that from your K1, AOS, ROC trifecta they  have so much information on you that the additional updated info you will provide them during the citizenship process is marginal.

 

But once again, I understand you.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Ray.Bonaquist

[TBoneTX 45,273]

Another consideration in favor of applying sooner rather than later is whether the Biden administration will open naturalization (or legal status) to large groups that are currently not eligible.  Regular processing of standard petitions and applications ground to a halt when DACA was implemented.

[millefleur 5,046]

4 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Another consideration in favor of applying sooner rather than later is whether the Biden administration will open naturalization (or legal status) to large groups that are currently not eligible.

In general I got the impression the N-400 queue seems to increase every year, so there's really no reason to wait if someone has plans to apply. At the rate waiting times are going for some, they might bypass the 5 year mark by the time they get their interview even if they originally applied under the 3 year rule.