Immigration bill suffers major defeat in Senate

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

Edited June 29, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

""Regardless of how you feel about it personally, do you think that deporting all illegal immigrants who are currently in the United States back to their native countries is a realistic and achievable goal, or not?"

was the question

While responding to this kind of lunacy, I may be provoking more, but I cannot resist.

Here's how it works:

There will be no need to seek out anyone hiding in shadows when ALL employers are penalized, fined, and / or jailed for hiring even one single worker that fails to produce evidence of being in the country legally. There is already a law. All employers must complete an I-9 for each and every employee. Do they? Course not, because the law is currently not enforced. Enforce the law and guess what happens? There will be a vast migration back to Mexico, which is the predominant violator, becuase there will be nowhere to work, no money.

There will however likely be a real need to increase the presence of law enforcement because alien lawbreakers will likely increase their involvement with criminal activity out of sheer desperation before leaving or getting caught.

Question again is exactly how. Has anyone done a feasibility study on whether or not it is possible to enforce those laws in a broad manner?

Are you kidding me? Feasibility study?

This is a matter of first common sense, and second, the ability to look at the many sovereign nations around you that have an active border checking program in place. But, let’s take this point by point:

1. Secure the borders

Is this feasible? We currently have a system in place, whose sole purpose is to ensure that anyone entering the country is doing so legally. Anyone that attempts to circumvent this system has violated US law. Now, it’s reported that somewhere around 12-20 million such folk have already violated that law, and are either hiding in the shadows, or are experienced at the catch-and-release process.

Because each and every day, there are dozens, if not hundreds of people that are violating the sanctity of the vulnerable US border between US and Mexico. Several people that are currently watching the border have clearly stated that there are miles and miles of open land that all one must do is simply walk across the border and hook up with someone that is waiting on the other side.

Now, what’s feasible here? Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China? That wall was built more than 200 years before Christ, without the use of cranes, dump trucks, back hoes, etc. Additionally, that wall extends for over 4000 miles. The border between the US and Mexico extends some 1500+ miles, from California to Texas. Building the kind of fence along this stretch of border is entirely feasible. Building it alone will reduce the influx of illegal movement coming to the US seeking work. Add to it, ground radar, and other technological means of detection will further alert attempted incursions. There are now funds that have been approved to hire additional border agents to watch for these incursions. Once a violator is caught, the process of catch and release will go away, and instead, violators will be incarcerated for up to 18 months, and subjected to biometric analysis.

2. Enforce the current I-9 law. Is it feasible? Again, you’ve got to be kidding? The American people have clearly demonstrated by voicing a resounding “I’M SICK OF ILLEGAL PEOPLE IN MY COUNTRY,” to their Senators and elected officials. The secret is out. Where there was once a blind eye and a turned head given to those that employ illegal aliens in the past, you will indeed begin seeing more and more employers choosing to obey laws and complete and validate the I-9 in lieu of getting a huge fine, facing jail, or otherwise.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why the vast majority of people come here. It ain’t for tourism, it’s for work. Once the jobs dry up, people will stop coming, and those here will be forced to leave. Once this method is employed, you can make no mistake that it will clearly work here, as it does in other countries like Mexico and China.

I've heard a lot about "enforcing the law" but relatively little about how to practically go about doing it.

I don't believe a fence is strictly necessary - as the desert is generally considered a 'natural barrier'. It would be more cost effective IMO to build some new national guard bases with regular patrol sweeps.

Enforcing employment laws is another matter - specifically in terms of how you layer an extra layer of bureaucracy on a company which won't impact how it goes about its business. It would also require a change of several existing laws. I refer to the comment in the post above:

I ran a company that used a large Latino Workforce. We would fill in all of the forms and do everything legal. 6 to 9 moths later, we may get a letter stating the the SSN is wrong. By law, we were not allowed to 'profile' that person and say they were illegal. We would have to ask for the number again. This would go on and on.

At the least this would require a reorganisation of existing agencies - but coming up with those systems IMO goes a ways beyond illegal immigration, much like the creation of the DHS post 9/11.

[mawilson 2,133]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

Nothing short of this will stop them:

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

You'd still need troops or law enforcement to patrol it. Which is why I think the wall is unnecessary.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

Nothing short of this will stop them:

Perfect!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

You'd still need troops or law enforcement to patrol it. Which is why I think the wall is unnecessary.

We can do that.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Just an add on to MA's idea! also adresses erekose's question of troops.

BOSTON — RoboCops and robot soldiers got a little closer to reality Thursday as a maker of floor-cleaning automatons teamed up with a stun-gun manufacturer to arm track-wheeled 'bots for the police and the Pentagon.

By adding Tasers to robots it already makes for the military, iRobot Corp. says it hopes to give soldiers and law enforcement a defensive, non-lethal tool.

But some observers fear such developments could ultimately lead to robots capable of deciding on their own when to shoot and kill.

"It's one more step in that direction," said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, an Alexandria, Va.-based military research organization.

"It is not the first step in that direction, but I think at some point toward the end of the next decade, you're going to start seeing RoboCops, or a Terminator," Pike said, referring to a pair of 1980s robot-themed sci-fi films. "We may see autonomous robots capable of inflicting lethal force."

Jim Rymarcsuk, vice president for business development at Burlington, Mass.-based iRobot, said notions of armed robots acting on their own are far beyond what the company envisions for the partnership announced Thursday with Scottsdale, Ariz.-based Taser International Inc.

(Story continues below)

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jun28/0,4...dRobots,00.html

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not sure robots are the answer to be honest.

What wrong with building a few bases and setting up regular patrol sweeps?

I'm just not convinced we need a wall.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I'm not sure robots are the answer to be honest.

What wrong with building a few bases and setting up regular patrol sweeps?

I'm just not convinced we need a wall.

I like the base idea. Maybe even make the bases training facilities for the military.

Edited June 29, 2007 by CarolsMarc

[no name 1]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

You'd still need troops or law enforcement to patrol it. Which is why I think the wall is unnecessary.

I doubt any answer will ever be satisfactory to you.

[Dan J 277]

The border with Mexico isn't the only way for an illegal immigrant to get in, its currently the easiest. But as long as the demand is there there and people willing to help illegal immigrants get across the border, they will do so on any border.

So by spending billions on the wall and spend billions more for hiring people to patrol it. The demand for cheap labor will still be there, and the supply of willing immigrant who are willing to risk their life for a chance at a better life will still be there. Unless you put up walls on all coastlines and our border with Canada. And close all ports blocking all travel, migration and trade. You will only have succeeded in one thing, in making slightly harder for illegal immigrants to get into this country.

Just relying on this wall, is expensive, and it solves nothing. Other than soak up a lot of money.

[mawilson 2,133]

Just relying on this wall, is expensive, and it solves nothing. Other than soak up a lot of money.

Why does it solve nothing? Soviet Union had a 5000+ mile border that not even a mouse could cross.

Do you really think the US couldn't afford a 2000 mile wall?

Spending billions is what America does best.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

You'd still need troops or law enforcement to patrol it. Which is why I think the wall is unnecessary.

I doubt any answer will ever be satisfactory to you.

I haven't seen very few answers being offered other than a mantra about "enforcing existing laws". Its not unreasonable to ask how that would be achieved. As it is I can't see much of a dent being made without a signficant restructuring of the way certain government departments operate and talk to each other.

Don't suppose you'd care to offer a practical "how it can be done" answer would you?

[no name 1]

Have you ever heard of the Great Wall of China?

Anyone who has driven on a highway surrounded by residential space has seen "great walls". There are thousands of miles of 20 feet high reinforced prefab walls on each side of interstate highways all over the DC area and Denver that were thrown up in days. Why can we do this on our highways without hassle and waste, but not along our national borders?

You'd still need troops or law enforcement to patrol it. Which is why I think the wall is unnecessary.

I doubt any answer will ever be satisfactory to you.

I haven't seen very few answers being offered other than a mantra about "enforcing existing laws". Its not unreasonable to ask how that would be achieved. As it is I can't see much of a dent being made without a signficant restructuring of the way certain government departments operate and talk to each other.

Don't suppose you'd care to offer a practical "how it can be done" answer would you?

Nope. Have no desire to talk to a brick wall.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Just relying on this wall, is expensive, and it solves nothing. Other than soak up a lot of money.

Why does it solve nothing? Soviet Union had a 5000+ mile border that not even a mouse could cross.

Do you really think the US couldn't afford a 2000 mile wall?

Spending billions is what America does best.

The Money US Saves by keepin Illegals out will more than pay for the wall.