Immigration bill suffers major defeat in Senate

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The question or argument is whether the majority of Americans support a guest worker program...poll after poll have shown that they do.

I said they oppose amnesty, not a guest worker program.

The bill was offering temporary work visas to those are here illegally. Opponents of the bill call that amnesty. Take your pick - the polls and the bill are in line with each other on that issue.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

The question or argument is whether the majority of Americans support a guest worker program...poll after poll have shown that they do.

I said they oppose amnesty, not a guest worker program.

Priceless! very nice MA. lmao

Qustions in polls are structured to get the disired outcome, so some can spew their point. Doesnt matter anyway the vote is in! YAY

Edited June 28, 2007 by CarolsMarc

[smoke20 0]

where's the ignore button, somebody is starting to annoy me w/ the constant posting of other peoples opinions!

[mawilson 2,133]

The question or argument is whether the majority of Americans support a guest worker program...poll after poll have shown that they do.

I said they oppose amnesty, not a guest worker program.

The bill was offering temporary work visas to those are here illegally. Opponents of the bill call that amnesty. Take your pick - the polls and the bill are in line with each other on that issue.

Er... no. Temporary work visas don't make one eligible for citizenship after N number of years.

A temporary visa is just that - temporary. When the visa expires, the visa holder goes home.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

where's the ignore button, somebody is starting to annoy me w/ the constant posting of other peoples opinions!

throw some smoke bombs 20 ....... that will cover it up.

[no name 1]

Steven - it's 2 different visa types:

Illegal immigrants

- Could seek a "Z visa," which would give immediate work authorization if they arrived in the US before 1/1/07

- Head of household would have to return to their home country within 8 yrs; would be guaranteed the right to return to the U.S.

- Applicants would have to pay a $5,000 staggered penalty

Guest workers

"Y visas" would be issued to 400,000 guest workers per year.

- Guest workers would enter the US on 2-year visas, return home for a year, then re-enter for additional 2 years. May enter 3 times (total 6 years) if not bringing family, but only 1 time if bringing family.

- Guest workers earn points toward merit-based green card.

- May bring families on 30-day visitor visas each year.

source

Edited June 28, 2007 by devilette

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This is getting ridiculous...try to follow.

The majority of Americans as poll after poll have indicated, support some kind of guest worker program for the millions of illegals.

The recent immigration bill offered a temporary work visas (guest worker program)...opponents call that amnesty then claim that the polls aren't asking the right question. This is play on terms here - whatever you want to call it - that provision of the immigration bill was supported by a majority of Americans...period.

The Bush administration insists that the Senate immigration bill does not include "amnesty" for illegal aliens. The White House uses the term "probationary status" instead. But many conservatives aren't buying it, and the amnesty/probationary provision is shaping up as a major sticking point.

Illegal aliens who "come out of the shadows" by applying for a Z visa would have to pass a background check, remain employed, and avoid criminal behavior, the White House said in a lengthy summary of the legislation released on Thursday.

A Z visa will allow people who sneaked into the country illegally before Jan. 1, 2007, to "live, work and travel freely." But to get a Z visa, illegal aliens will be required to pay a $1,000 fine, "meet accelerated English and civics requirements," stay employed, and renew their visa every four years.

Z card holders who want to apply for a green card (permanent residency) would have to pay an additional $4,000 fine; go to the back of the immigration line; return to their home country to file their green card application; and "demonstrate merit." Workers with skills would have an advantage over others.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page...T20070518b.html

What part of that is NOT a guest worker program???

[Alex+R 0]

Steven - it's 2 different visa types:

Illegal immigrants

- Could seek a "Z visa," which would give immediate work authorization if they arrived in the US before 1/1/07

- Head of household would have to return to their home country within 8 yrs; would be guaranteed the right to return to the U.S.

- Applicants would have to pay a $5,000 staggered penalty

Guest workers

"Y visas" would be issued to 400,000 guest workers per year.

- Guest workers would enter the US on 2-year visas, return home for a year, then re-enter for additional 2 years. May enter 3 times (total 6 years) if not bringing family, but only 1 time if bringing family.

- Guest workers earn points toward merit-based green card.

- May bring families on 30-day visitor visas each year.

source

Sounds pretty good to me. Although sending someone home for a year doesn't really seem to serve any purpose that I can see.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Steven - it's 2 different visa types:

Illegal immigrants

- Could seek a "Z visa," which would give immediate work authorization if they arrived in the US before 1/1/07

- Head of household would have to return to their home country within 8 yrs; would be guaranteed the right to return to the U.S.

- Applicants would have to pay a $5,000 staggered penalty

Guest workers

"Y visas" would be issued to 400,000 guest workers per year.

- Guest workers would enter the US on 2-year visas, return home for a year, then re-enter for additional 2 years. May enter 3 times (total 6 years) if not bringing family, but only 1 time if bringing family.

- Guest workers earn points toward merit-based green card.

- May bring families on 30-day visitor visas each year.

source

I'd ask you to go back and read the questions Americans were asked in the polls. They were asked SPECIFICALLY, if they would be in favor of guest worker program for the millions of illegal immigrants in this country and the majority have said YES, poll after poll. There's no getting around that fact. It's disheartening to see so many here try to cloud the facts.

[mawilson 2,133]

What part of that is NOT a guest worker program???

Guest worker program: allows people from other countries to come here on a temporary basis.

Amnesty: grants legal status to illegal immigrants who are already here.

Edited June 28, 2007 by mawilson

[Alex+R 0]

So, does your average American want everyone to go home and some come back on a guest worker program?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What part of that is NOT a guest worker program???

Guest worker program: allows people from other countries to come here on a temporary basis.

Amnesty: grants legal status to illegal immigrants who are already here.

Read the friggin questions of the polls!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Allow Illegal Immigrants To Get Temporary Work Visas

72% in favor

.....

Make Illegal Immigration a Crime And Not Allow Anyone Who Entered The Country Illegaly to Work or Stay In the U.S.

25% in favor

http://www.srbi.com/time_poll_arc24.html

What part of that is confusing, Mark???

[no name 1]

Well Steven, your source is from March 2006, I would prefer to use a current one.

CBS News/New York Times Poll. May 18-23, 2007. N=1,125 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).

"Would you favor or oppose a program allowing people from other countries to be guest workers in the U.S. for a temporary period of time, and then be required to return to their home country?" 5/18-23/07

Favor 66% (fair enough)

Oppose 30%

"Should ILLEGAL immigrants be prosecuted and deported for being in the U.S. illegally, or shouldn't they?" 5/18-23/07

Should 69% (exactly)

Oppose 24%

Edited June 28, 2007 by devilette

[Alex+R 0]

It's funny that so many people support a guest worker program when in the Kennedy School poll that Devilette posted some 70% of Americans doubt people would go home when their two year periods are up. What are Americans saying here?

Well Steven, your source is from March 2006, I would prefer to use a current one.

CBS News/New York Times Poll. May 18-23, 2007. N=1,125 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).

"Would you favor or oppose a program allowing people from other countries to be guest workers in the U.S. for a temporary period of time, and then be required to return to their home country?" 5/18-23/07

Favor 66% (fair enough)

Oppose 30%

"Should ILLEGAL immigrants be prosecuted and deported for being in the U.S. illegally, or shouldn't they?" 5/18-23/07

Should 69% (exactly)

Oppose 24%

In your Kennedy poll, about 80% of Americans said deportation was an unrealistic goal and not likely to be feasible.

The point here is that Americans have a lot of different opinions and I think a lot of people in this thread are cherry picking their statistics from the very same polls that show opinions that conflict with their own on other questions.