The second impeachment of Donald Trump thread

[Dashinka 24,736]

Just now, laylalex said:

https://www.jacksonville.com/article/20150731/NEWS/801250374

OK, mincing words, so Hillary and her campaign didn't start it, but they certainly perpetuated it when Obama was handing her her lunch in the 2008 primaries.  So by the logic used previously where Donald Trump is a racist solely due to his "Birther" push, Hillary would also be one.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

9 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I have mixed in some very wealthy circles in my life. Yes, there are some horrifically selfish, spoilt, imperious and grasping people in those circles. Trump's behavior would not be acceptable there. One can be amoral and self-serving a decent part of one's time, but really rich people know the way to keep money is not to draw too much attention to themselves. Trump's mental illness is not a symptom of his wealth. 

Trump isn't simply wealthy, and the environment he's in are celebrities. This to me is a romanticized view, one which had people supposedly shocked during MeToo when a guy basically slept with and even raped women systematically for 30 odd years with impunity, while ignoring that people were publicly stating it, everyone in the industry knew, and that sleeping with someone to get into the industry was common as well. 

 

It's no different to me than when people sit there pretending like they don't say half the stuff Trump said in the Access Hollywood tape. Fine, people prefer to put on this facade. Not my cup of tea.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Burnt Reynolds

[Boiler 45,947]

2 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

OK, mincing words, so Hillary and her campaign didn't start it, but they certainly perpetuated it when Obama was handing her her lunch in the 2008 primaries.  So by the logic used previously where Donald Trump is a racist solely due to his "Birther" push, Hillary would also be one.

Hillary does have a long list of racist issues. This is a drop in the Ocean.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

19 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Given the support of Trump comes from the populist movement which is not bound to any one party, I'd say the answer is yes. It would be very different if Trump were to make his own party, given the psychological stranglehold the two parties have on people. In this case, it's hard to say. I would personally say that if Trump ran outside the two main parties it would increase my support for him as a candidate. The same could be said of Tulsi Gabbard.

 

At any rate, I won't tell you nor anyone else how to construct the criteria for how you vote, but to me, keeping it as far away from "personal feelings" for the person is one of the most important things, with a simple understanding that on a personal level, I don't know these people, and I can't see why I'd want to. But since this pertains to a job and my role is no different than a boss, I know that catering to the brand marketing they do and aligning my personal feelings with them as a person is done to override my role and give them more influence over my vote, which has the opposite effect for me and makes me ignore it even more. Case in point, I did agree with Trump on a number of things in 2016 and laughed at a lot of memes but I didn't let it affect my judgement and didn't vote for him then. Watching what he did on the economy, on his promises (with a reasonable understanding of what he could fulfill and what he's simply marketing), and moreover, the people aligned against him and their roles in the public discourse, had him earn my vote. Or as some people call it, "racism".

 

   I think we need to balance personal feelings with other criteria, and certainly personal feelings are not everything. It comes up all the time in hiring someone for a job, and voting for president is the ultimate example. It is difficult decision when someone has a great skill set and acumen and we don't have a good feeling about them. We may or may not want to give them a chance in that case. It's also a difficult decision when we get a large group of candidates and none of them are qualified.

 

  On the other hand, if we don't feel good about the person and previous employers have bad things to say, and we don't think they meet the requirements of the job, and we think they will make a hostile environment for everyone else, we are probably not going to hire them. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Steeleballz

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

4 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

OK, mincing words, so Hillary and her campaign didn't start it, but they certainly perpetuated it when Obama was handing her her lunch in the 2008 primaries.  So by the logic used previously where Donald Trump is a racist solely due to his "Birther" push, Hillary would also be one.

Donald Trump is not a racist solely on his birther push, it goes back to a federal suit on racial discrimination of his properties and calling for (full page ads in the NYT) the execution of the Central Park five when the young men were proven innocent of the crime.  There are multiple other hearsay examples I have heard about, but we don't have in evidence, but the narrator's are reliable.

[Dashinka 24,736]

Just now, CanAm1980 said:

Donald Trump is not a racist solely on his birther push, it goes back to a federal suit on racial discrimination of his properties and calling for (full page ads in the NYT) the execution of the Central Park five when the young men were proven innocent of the crime.  There are multiple other hearsay examples I have heard about, but we don't have in evidence, but the narrator's are reliable.

Go back and review what others here have suggested.  Simply employing the same logic.

[laylalex 7,300]

2 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Trump isn't simply wealthy, and the environment he's in are celebrities. This to me is a romanticized view, one which had people supposedly shocked during MeToo when a guy basically slept with and even raped women systematically for 30 odd years with impunity, while ignoring that people were publicly stating it, everyone in the industry knew, and that sleeping with someone to get into the industry was common as well. 

 

It's no different to me than when people sit there pretending like they don't say half the stuff Trump said in the Access Hollywood tape. Fine, people prefer to put on this facade. Not my cup of tea.

Trust me, I've hung around people wealthier than him. His behavior is not normal. If you like him, cool, but it's not correct to say his behavior is "normal" in his social strata. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

58 minutes ago, moxy said:

Nobody's laughing. We spent four years under a racist who enacted and tried to enact racist policies. It doesn't fit your image of Trump as great leader, or however you frame him in your mind, but it's the truth. I'm happy you take racism seriously, that's a good start.

what racist policies did trump try to enact, other than Prison reform which helped the bias towards black in the CJ system and campaign for decriminalization  of homosexuality world wide 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

23 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Trust me, I've hung around people wealthier than him. His behavior is not normal. If you like him, cool, but it's not correct to say his behavior is "normal" in his social strata. 

His behavior is normal not just among wealthy people but among non-wealthy people. Because you hung around them doesn't mean anything, if you don't come off as someone people can be like that around, they simply will hide it from you. It's weird to me I find myself having this conversation with fellow liberals after having to spend many years telling this to naive conservatives. 

[moxy 1,051]

7 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

what racist policies did trump try to enact, other than Prison reform which helped the bias towards black in the CJ system and campaign for decriminalization  of homosexuality world wide 

 

https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks

 

And yeah... that's a lot to read, and no doubt you will read through and parse it very carefully to allow evidence that is new to you to re-form your position. I am confident you won't just click on the link, look at a very long and comprehensive civil rights abuses, and come up with a quip that explains everything away.

[moxy 1,051]

Just now, Burnt Reynolds said:

His behavior is normal not just among wealthy people but among non-wealthy people.

Man, I don't know who you're hanging out with that Trump's behavior would fall into the normal category, but maybe find a better quality of people to surround yourself with. There is no universe in which Trump's behavior is even remotely within social norms.

[yuna628 9,700]

48 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Trust me, I've hung around people wealthier than him. His behavior is not normal. If you like him, cool, but it's not correct to say his behavior is "normal" in his social strata. 

His behavior isn't normal in any social strata. 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

10 minutes ago, moxy said:

Man, I don't know who you're hanging out with that Trump's behavior would fall into the normal category, but maybe find a better quality of people to surround yourself with. There is no universe in which Trump's behavior is even remotely within social norms.

Some are simply destined to re-learn the same lessons others on the opposite end of the spectrum had to. It's not something I need to do, but being a person who, in this conversation, seems to be among the only ones who knows what normal is, I'm sure you can find some livestreams of the "Womens March" and take care to listen to how many women speak about their genitalia in the open. Humans are naturally extroverted, situational, and while no absolute is good, healthier social behavior means not walking on eggshells (people are more willing to be socially risky if there's less judgment or coercive response against them). If you find people are acting highly restrictive seemingly everywhere and you're not in a professional/secure environment, it might be you.

[TBoneTX 45,955]

6 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

I've heard this used on VJ a lot

Some of my best friends are on the VJ Habitual Offenders list.  

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

7 hours ago, laylalex said:

https://www.jacksonville.com/article/20150731/NEWS/801250374

False: 

 

Patti Solis Doyle, who was Hillary’s campaign manager until the Iowa caucuses in 2008, admitted first in a tweet and second in a CNN interview that a Hillary staffer first spread the birther issue. While the staffer was fired, the termination happened after the cat was let out of the bag. Patient Zero, thus, was a member of Team Hillary.

 

 

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/296548-how-birtherism-became-hillarys-waterloo