How to Ensure This Never Happens Again

[laylalex 7,300]

1 minute ago, CanAm1980 said:

The ballot is not meaningless, it is a measure of the fairness and effectiveness of the election system.  When the government is forced to measure whether everyone voted, issues like geographic barriers, mobility barriers, voter role purges that have definitely targeted specific groups, poll taxes that crop up from time to time: those would be in the cross hairs.

 

We seem to survive filing our taxes everyear. 

 

I am not even married to this idea, I just haven't seen a good argument against it here, except maybe the waste of paper argument.

You misunderstand me. The ballot itself is not meaningless, but rather the act of casting an empty ballot that is meaningless. The same effect results from choosing not to cast a ballot. There are multiple "meanings" to the failure to cast a ballot -- electing not to cast a ballot; lack of access to a ballot; refusal to accept the form of government we have, just to name a few. 

 

Paying taxes is a duty on all of us to maintain the proper funding of our society. There is not a better way of doing it besides printing money and pretending that the government can pay for it all on its own. Casting a vote is one way to maintain the proper functioning of our society -- there are many ways to get to that end. The one that involves the least coercion is to my eyes the best. I understand the arguments for mandated voting but I just cannot get there. I have voted in every election I have had a chance to vote in since I was 18, even getting absentee ballots when I was abroad. I consider voting a civic duty and a moral obligation. But I cannot in good conscience force my fellow citizens to have the same attitude. If we are thinking big, what are other ways to get to fixing access to the polls and an equality of outcomes that do not compel compliance?

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

9 minutes ago, laylalex said:

You misunderstand me. The ballot itself is not meaningless, but rather the act of casting an empty ballot that is meaningless. The same effect results from choosing not to cast a ballot. There are multiple "meanings" to the failure to cast a ballot -- electing not to cast a ballot; lack of access to a ballot; refusal to accept the form of government we have, just to name a few. 

 

Paying taxes is a duty on all of us to maintain the proper funding of our society. There is not a better way of doing it besides printing money and pretending that the government can pay for it all on its own. Casting a vote is one way to maintain the proper functioning of our society -- there are many ways to get to that end. The one that involves the least coercion is to my eyes the best. I understand the arguments for mandated voting but I just cannot get there. I have voted in every election I have had a chance to vote in since I was 18, even getting absentee ballots when I was abroad. I consider voting a civic duty and a moral obligation. But I cannot in good conscience force my fellow citizens to have the same attitude. If we are thinking big, what are other ways to get to fixing access to the polls and an equality of outcomes that do not compel compliance?

I am not prepared to die on the mandatory ballot hill, I don't remember giving it a thought before reading this article, it just seems the cleanest way to hold our political system accountable on this topic.

 

Certain parties lost it in the last election just on the controversial topic of mail in ballots, do you think we can fix all if the access issues? Probably not. 

[Dashinka 24,735]

3 hours ago, CanAm1980 said:

I just posted the link, to will need to real the article for the time points.

Sorry, the NYTimes has a paywall that is not worth paying for., but from the snippet you included, I guess we can infer.

[Dashinka 24,735]

3 hours ago, Boiler said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/aoc-cancel-worked-for-trump-435293

 

Over the weekend, people started making lists.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez kicked things off on Friday with a tweet that terrified Trumpworld.

“Is anyone archiving these Trump sycophants for when they try to downplay or deny their complicity in the future?” she wrote. “I foresee decent probability of many deleted Tweets, writings, photos in the future.”

A group calling itself the Trump Accountability Project sprung up to heed AOC’s call.

“Remember what they did,” the group’s sparse website declares. “We should not allow the following groups of people to profit from their experience: Those who elected him. Those who staffed his government. Those who funded him.”

Cancel culture run amok.  I suppose doxing will come next for anyone that voted for Trump, but that will be Ok since it is Dem approved.

[Dashinka 24,735]

1 hour ago, CanAm1980 said:

In the specifics listed above, you don't have to vote, just turn in your ballot, unmarked if you choose.

Voting in person only is the only answer with absentee allowed only for actual reasons.  Even the Dems favorite Jimmy Carter recommends that.

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

8 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Voting in person only is the only answer with absentee allowed only for actual reasons.  Even the Dems favorite Jimmy Carter recommends that.

Carter affirms safety of mail-in voting after Barr and White House cite him to diminish it

By Caroline Kelly and Gisela Crespo, CNN

Updated 3:03 AM EDT, Fri September 04, 2020

 

....But Carter on Thursday pointed to a statement last May from the Carter Center endorsing the use of mail-in ballots. Using the findings from the 2005 commission report, that statement argued "that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place ... there was little evidence of voter fraud."

In its report, the commission had mentioned Oregon -- which votes entirely by mail -- as a model, noting that the state "appears to have avoided significant fraud in its vote by mail elections by introducing safeguards to protect ballot integrity, including signature verification. Vote by mail is, however, likely to increase the risks of fraud and of contested elections in other states, where the population is more mobile, where there is some history of troubled elections, or where the safeguards for ballot integrity are weaker."

 

 

[spookyturtle 9,466]

8 minutes ago, CanAm1980 said:

Carter affirms safety of mail-in voting after Barr and White House cite him to diminish it

By Caroline Kelly and Gisela Crespo, CNN

Updated 3:03 AM EDT, Fri September 04, 2020

 

....But Carter on Thursday pointed to a statement last May from the Carter Center endorsing the use of mail-in ballots. Using the findings from the 2005 commission report, that statement argued "that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place ... there was little evidence of voter fraud."

In its report, the commission had mentioned Oregon -- which votes entirely by mail -- as a model, noting that the state "appears to have avoided significant fraud in its vote by mail elections by introducing safeguards to protect ballot integrity, including signature verification. Vote by mail is, however, likely to increase the risks of fraud and of contested elections in other states, where the population is more mobile, where there is some history of troubled elections, or where the safeguards for ballot integrity are weaker."

 

 

Did you read the last sentence? 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 hour ago, CanAm1980 said:

The election system is forced to ensure that every eligible voter has been given the opportunity to vote. It is easy to find flaws in any new idea I am sure, the point is to give everyone a voice.

Freedom is kind of a flaw, to authoritarians.

 

3 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

Did you read the last sentence? 

Headline only.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Burnt Reynolds

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

3 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

Did you read the last sentence? 

Yup, I didn't sugarcoat it, but the concept that Carter backs no mail in ballots or that it won't work is not true, according to Carter.

[Ban Hammer 13,488]

a mail in ballot already exists.  it's called "absentee ballot"

no need to reinvent the wheel.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

57 minutes ago, laylalex said:

You misunderstand me. The ballot itself is not meaningless, but rather the act of casting an empty ballot that is meaningless. The same effect results from choosing not to cast a ballot. There are multiple "meanings" to the failure to cast a ballot -- electing not to cast a ballot; lack of access to a ballot; refusal to accept the form of government we have, just to name a few. 

 

Paying taxes is a duty on all of us to maintain the proper funding of our society. There is not a better way of doing it besides printing money and pretending that the government can pay for it all on its own. Casting a vote is one way to maintain the proper functioning of our society -- there are many ways to get to that end. The one that involves the least coercion is to my eyes the best. I understand the arguments for mandated voting but I just cannot get there. I have voted in every election I have had a chance to vote in since I was 18, even getting absentee ballots when I was abroad. I consider voting a civic duty and a moral obligation. But I cannot in good conscience force my fellow citizens to have the same attitude. If we are thinking big, what are other ways to get to fixing access to the polls and an equality of outcomes that do not compel compliance?

Pretty much.

 

However, to the bold, that's where we've been going, where government, or any institution or power one can wield, is a vehicle precisely to coerce others into complying with a demographic's viewpoint. The people cheering it on the most don't seem to get (or care) that while they find the immediate outcome preferable, it won't be so wonderful when such a vehicle is turned toward them, which will occur in no time as they aren't actual decision makers in this authoritarian alliance.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Burnt Reynolds

[spookyturtle 9,466]

5 minutes ago, CanAm1980 said:

Yup, I didn't sugarcoat it, but the concept that Carter backs no mail in ballots or that it won't work is not true, according to Carter.

It doesn’t seem like a strong endorsement to me. It sounds like he thought it worked in Oregon.

6 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

a mail in ballot already exists.  it's called "absentee ballot"

no need to reinvent the wheel.

Square wheels are better.

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

49 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

a mail in ballot already exists.  it's called "absentee ballot"

no need to reinvent the wheel.

In Arkansas, you need a note from your doctor to get one.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

8 minutes ago, CanAm1980 said:

In Arkansas, you need a note from your doctor to get one.

That solitary sentence comprises the rules for absentee ballots in Arkansas? If I was doing my FPCA for AR I'd need a doctors note?

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

15 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

That solitary sentence comprises the rules for absentee ballots in Arkansas? If I was doing my FPCA for AR I'd need a doctors note?

I found this: I am not what "unavoidably absent" means

 

Qualifications to Vote Absentee

To be qualified to vote an absentee ballot, you must meet one of the following criteria:

• You will be unavoidably absent from your polling site on election day, OR
• You will be unable to attend your polling site on election day due to illness or physical disability, OR
• You are a member of the Uniformed Services, merchant marines or the spouse or a dependant family member and are away from your polling location due to the member’s active duty status, OR
• A U.S. citizen whose residence is in Arkansas but is temporarily living outside the territorial limits of the United States