Laws and Legality

[Alex+R 0]

How much does poverty or people being in poverty affect the gangster ideal? Because its been so commercialized, it probably does something to instill the idea that gangs and crime are a way out, to riches. When what really happens is they just end up in jail.

Though, there are plenty of poor people in other countries who do not resort to violence. People who do not have 1/1000 of what every American has access too. People forget about the depression and seem to assume that the white man was always rich. Many here seem to find the your racist excuse convenient rather than accepting the fact that someone from Mexico can come here with nothing and make something of themselves. That is, even when they have the odds stacked against them.

To be honest I am sick of certain people using poverty as an excuse to resort to violence and gang bang. That is while they roll in a lexus. I was in DC today only to notice Mexicans working hard in this heat while so many others who blame America and the government and the white man of course kick back and bum around.

I love a post that says, "I'm racist and dang proud. But not proud enough to directly mention the group I mean by name."

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Usually if there's enough people disobeying a particular law, the law itself becomes futile.

Let us abolish speeding, drunk driving and petty theft laws at once then. All would appear futile by this standard.

If noone enforces it - then the law is essentially pointless no?

The other side of it is that enough people refuse en-masse to - let's say pay a tax that they don't feel is fair, the sheer weight of numbers will force a change in the law.

Speeding and drunk driving laws are enforced and yet there are millions breaking those each and every day. The sheer weight of offenders has thus far not caused a change in either law. Nor should it. Same goes for petty theft, by the way.

Not that simple. If the posted speed limit is 25 MPH and everybody drives 45 MPH, the posted speed limit could be raised. With drunk driving - each state has its own legal limit so there is argument over when being inebriated effects one's driving to the point of endangering others. If the blood alcohol limit is so low that a very high percentage of people are getting DUI's, then it's worth looking into whether the legal limit should be raised - taking into account scientific evidence as well as statistics.

We can talk theory all day. The bottom line is this, though: speed limits are broken no matter what they are. Going with your example, if said limit was raised from 25 to 45 because people were going 45 when the limit was 25, then following the adjustment, people are likely to go 55 or 65 in the now 45 zone. You can say it isn't so but you and I both know better. Same goes for the DUI threshold. And what about them petty thieves? Set a limit there, too. Let them go if it's less than $20.00 worth. And s that per instance, per day, per week or what? You may not like the thought but there have got to be some absolutes unless you'd like to descent into anarchy.

That's not strictly true - speed limits may be raised or lowered but not solely because people aren't obeying it - at the least the limit might be reviewed - if for example the slower (or indeed) faster speed are causing more accidents in certain locations.

As far as freeways go - most people generally go with the speed of traffic, rather than strictly obeying posted limits. Indeed - if you drive the 65mph speed limit while everyone is doing 75-80 you're potentially jeopardizing your own safety.

Point out to me one area where drivers generally obey the speed limit. It doesn't exist. You know it as well as I do.

Depends on how well its enforced. Speed cameras in the UK (for all the controversy over the implementation) have made a noticeable difference.

So, stronger enforcement is the answer. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Heracles 417]

Point out to me one area where drivers generally obey the speed limit. It doesn't exist. You know it as well as I do.

Which is not a good thing as lives are being lost. The US already has one of the highest death rates on the road. Why, because people do not give a ###### about others. I think jail time is not the answer but more monetary fines. Give someone a $2,500 fine for going 7 miles over the limit. Then see if they will speed again. $5,000 for DUI plus loss of license for 1 year. $3,000 for reckless driving.

Then again the obstacle is that someone issued with a huge fine will have some sort of scum bag lawyer or civil liberty wanker union protecting them and will probably be able to get off on some BS technicality. So of course the law will fail.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ultimately it depends on the offence. And stronger enforcement may work to a point - but a lot depends on frequency of occurrence.

For things as prevalent as speeding you have to live with it to an extent, but as that particular example involves a tangible threat to public safety its unlikely it will (or should) be repealed.

[Heracles 417]

I love a post that says, "I'm racist and dang proud. But not proud enough to directly mention the group I mean by name."

another quality post by you.

Why mention it anyway. We all know who it is. we all know which culture makes up a large portion of the prison population.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Infidel

[natty bumppo 297]

Point out to me one area where drivers generally obey the speed limit. It doesn't exist. You know it as well as I do.

I can ... the road that goes past my house. It's posted 35 and it's a "cash cow" for the local town(s).

Go 5 mph above the posted ... your chances are very high of being ticketed. You can always spot someone driving past that is not from here. You tend to pass them a few miles down the road while some serious explaining is happening.

[Alex+R 0]

I love a post that says, "I'm racist and dang proud. But not proud enough to directly mention the group I mean by name."

another quality post by you.

Why mention it anyway. We all know who it is. we all know which culture makes up a large portion of the prison population.

Good God, why am I the only person speaking up about this??

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I love a post that says, "I'm racist and dang proud. But not proud enough to directly mention the group I mean by name."

another quality post by you.

Why mention it anyway. We all know who it is. we all know which culture makes up a large portion of the prison population.

Good God, why am I the only person speaking up about this??

It's true that a certain segment of our society has squandered the opportunities this country offers while immigrant groups have grabbed those same opportunities and prospered. I don't want to turn this into a race issue, because while one race may be over-represented in this 'group', there are plenty of members of that same race who have done well for themselves. It's not really, IMHO, a race issue at all.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I love a post that says, "I'm racist and dang proud. But not proud enough to directly mention the group I mean by name."

another quality post by you.

Why mention it anyway. We all know who it is. we all know which culture makes up a large portion of the prison population.

Good God, why am I the only person speaking up about this??

It's true that a certain segment of our society has squandered the opportunities this country offers while immigrant groups have grabbed those same opportunities and prospered. I don't want to turn this into a race issue, because while one race may be over-represented in this 'group', there are plenty of members of that same race who have done well for themselves. It's not really, IMHO, a race issue at all.

Its a cultural and socio-economic issue - race is coincidental. If you look at most cities - there is I think a natural tendency for people to segregate themselves by race (thinking here of places like, Newark in NJ, Glendale, Alhambra and Compton in CA). The idea that skin color alone makes a person people criminal or less intelligent is the definition of racism. Its also very stupid.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I love a post that says, "I'm racist and dang proud. But not proud enough to directly mention the group I mean by name."

another quality post by you.

Why mention it anyway. We all know who it is. we all know which culture makes up a large portion of the prison population.

Good God, why am I the only person speaking up about this??

It's true that a certain segment of our society has squandered the opportunities this country offers while immigrant groups have grabbed those same opportunities and prospered. I don't want to turn this into a race issue, because while one race may be over-represented in this 'group', there are plenty of members of that same race who have done well for themselves. It's not really, IMHO, a race issue at all.

Its a cultural and socio-economic issue - race is coincidental.

Exactly.

[Heracles 417]

Good God, why am I the only person speaking up about this??

It's true that a certain segment of our society has squandered the opportunities this country offers while immigrant groups have grabbed those same opportunities and prospered. I don't want to turn this into a race issue, because while one race may be over-represented in this 'group', there are plenty of members of that same race who have done well for themselves. It's not really, IMHO, a race issue at all.

Exactly. Bill Cosby was saying today that poverty is not a black issue as there are so many white folks living in poverty.

The achievement of so many other cultures in America is often silenced by the whining of specific groups. As they say, the squeakiest wheels gets the most attention..

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

You want to have a theoretical discussion of the purpose of criminal law...on VJ? You've got to be kidding me.

I think that it's one of fundamental arguments that keep the debates on illegal immigration going in a circular fashion.

Because people can't understand the question, IMO. VJ has really changed how I look at people, especially other Americans. I used to think a lot more of them before I started spending a lot of time here. Now I understand where people are coming from, and I want to go back to when I didn't.

Maybe you should get out more.

[Caladan 19]

Mandatory minimums are dumb, just like zero tolerance policies in schools. Mandatory minimums tie the judge's hands; poor Jean Valjean can't get a break if it's his third baguette. In keeping with my general policy against asinine legislation, I'm against tying the hands of the smart people we pay to use discretion.

The relationship between law and punishment is quite complex. Retribution is an important aspect of it, but I think the most important function of law is to segregate someone from society when they're damaging it by ignoring the rules.

[Heracles 417]

Its a cultural and socio-economic issue - race is coincidental. If you look at most cities - there is I think a natural tendency for people to segregate themselves by race (thinking here of places like, Newark in NJ, Glendale, Alhambra and Compton in CA). The idea that skin color alone makes a person people criminal or less intelligent is the definition of racism. Its also very stupid.

Which I do not believe anyone has said. There is a fine line between speaking out about negative cultural attitudes and trends to comments being purely based on skin color. This is something that is misunderstood by many. Like why is it the norm to congregate in cities where one has to be skilled to acquire a job?? Then blame the government and everyone else for their poverty.

I am extremely proud of the hard work that so many other cultures and races have brought to the US; without using one food stamp or coming to America with more than $20 in their pocket..

Edited June 28, 2007 by Infidel

[Caladan 19]

Next, Infidel will solve famine by suggesting that people move to where the food is...