Visa while doing religious marriage and visiting. Not legal marriage.

[Gibuntu 0]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for putting this into tourist, there does not appear a category for my scenario.

Sorry in advance for the essay!!! :)

I need some advise.

 

Back story for context: 
I'm a UK citizen from birth, I've been married for 8 years with my ex in the UK. Our marriage broke down years ago and we are now divorced Islamically (for the 2nd time, both times she'd asked it and I'm done.) but not legally divorced yet "Legal marriage was done in Tanzania where my ex is from but it's still legally valid in the UK and the US"  (waiting for advise on a good lawyer from family).

 

A while ago I got in touch with one of my friends who I've known for years (we've been in touch on and off over the years), informed her what happened again and told her I'd never trust another woman nor would I be willing to put the effort in getting to know someone for fear of being betrayed again!

 

We got talking loads, catching up and we started joking about what if we together when met 10 years ago (she's still not married, had a boyfriend at the time), over a few days jokes become serious talks and we decided we wanted to be together and she left her boyfriend. Not based solely love but because of friendship and trust that we have in each other, we are both in our mid 30s and we don't delay or wait on anything or anyone. We are both mildly disabled, have backgrounds in IT (both in full time work), have the same interests and we jell so well together, we always have.

 

We both want to do the Islamic Nikah (marriage) to keep everything halal do things properly according to Islam and have status of a married Islamically and not just be boyfriend and girlfriend.

For personal reasons on both sides we decided to wait for 6 months to a year prior to me settling with her in the US, also providing that my legal divorce has been finalized by then as well, maintain a long distance for 6 months to a year and visit each other every few months, after our Islamic marriage.

 

So my question is, if we are just doing the Islamic religious marriage now, not the legal marriage and I'm travelling for that purpose and to spend a week to two weeks together prior to me coming back to the UK. What is the best visa to go on and will immigration have and problems due to the unique scenario and eventually I do intend to settle with my fiancee in the US??

 

I'd rather be completely open and honest with immigration and not lie or embellish the truth.

 

Many Thanks

[Pinkrlion 2,724]

Would that not be considered polygamy????

[Boiler 45,911]

VWP, nobody cares about religious celebrations, the only thing that matters for immigration is legal divorces and marriages.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Bigamy is illegal.  It's also prevents a person from immigrating to the US.

 

Do things in their proper sequence.  Legally finalize your divorce before another marriage.  Keep it simple.  US immigration does not care about your "unique scenario" and will deny a case where bigamy is involved.  

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

49 minutes ago, Boiler said:

VWP, nobody cares about religious celebrations, the only thing that matters for immigration is legal divorces and marriages.

Hmm, I don’t think that’s true, there are many religious observances that uscis takes seriously even though they are not “legal enough” for immigration benefits. (Note all the religious services that invalidate a K1 but are not legal enough for CR1.) Certainly many posts of people tying themselves in knots immigration wise by not getting the chronology of religious and legal stuff right. If there was no immigration issues involved I think what OP is proposing would be fine. Not sure about it given he wants a green card. Could definitely cause complications. I would agree all divorces, Islamic and legal, should be finalized before any new marriage, Islamic or legal, takes place to pre-empt problems down the line.

[JeanneAdil 6,606]

Basically you answered your own question in the 1st paragraph when you said "you divorced under islamic divorce 2 times"

if an Islamic divorce was legal in UK ,  you would only do it once not twice

Even if you were in a country under Islamic laws ,   the VJ community here could not say if the divorce was valid in that country unless they knew Islamic laws of divorce /  like did you divorce under Al-Baqarah  or  At-Talaq and was the waiting period recogniged but if you tried this in UK,  you have to follow UK laws as Islamic laws are not the laws of that country

 

The simple moral: If you choose to live in this country you are subject to the laws of this country.

 

You need the court divorce papers / legal for the country you live in 

 

and then proceed to new marriage not the other way around as "like said above"  it will be considered bigamy

 

if you do the Nikah in Islamic country it is a legal contract between the man and woman and is recognized as marriage contract for immigration 

[Gibuntu 0]

@JeanneAdil no I haven't answered my own question, because, the UK doesn't class the Nikah as legal, I had two marriages in Tanzania the Nikah to fufill the Islamic requirements which is not legal in the UK and a Legal/Registration marriage to fufill the legal requirements to bring my then wife to the UK to be with me. Hence why I'm Islamicaly divorced but not legally divorced. Islamic divorce was Talaq, she asked for it and I gave it, the waiting period is now over.

 

@SusieQQQ Thank you very much for your advice, If I knew a legal divorce could be finished quickly I would being doing that instead.

 

@aaron2020 Is it still Bigamy if I'm no longer married Islamicly to my ex and the marriage to my fiancee is not a legal one?

 

 

@Pinkrlion Not legally unless the US does count the Islamic Nikah as a legal contract, as far I was aware it's not, if anyone would like to correct me, please do. And not Islamicaly as I'm no longer Islamicaly married to my ex.

 

Thank you everyone for your responses so far!!! :)

 

If everything was finalised on the divorce end legal and Islamicly what would my options be if I do intend to settle later on and do the Islamic Nikah now?

[JeanneAdil 6,606]

Totally confused now

you say you were married for 8 years and both live in UK 

and then say UK did not recognize the Nikah marriage so how did you get a visa to have her come to UK?

and why do you need to divorce if marriage is not legal one?

and how do you plan to divorce if not recognized in UK?

 

[Boiler 45,911]

Legal where he married

 

Would not have been legal if it was done in the UK

 

Must admit not sure how US works, assume not.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Be patience and finalize your divorce before any marriage to keep things simple or choose to make your life complicated and risk immigration to the US by getting married before your divorce is final.  The choice is yours.  

Edited November 28, 2020 by aaron2020

[Loren Y 2,756]

As much as I hate to say it, an attorney familiar with these type of marriages should definitely be consulted. Hopefully one with a little immigration background also .  There seems to be a lot of " grey area" here, and you don't want to mess it up. spend a few hundred now before losing thousands later. I would even consider checking with 2 attorneys to cover myself. I normally say forget an attorney, and do it yourself, but this is one that I would want to have a attorney look at right from the start. May add a few months in the beginning of the process, but could easily save years later. Unless someone here has been in the exact situation as you explain, it is going to be a tough call, and even then unless they did it recently the way laws and rules change you need to be sure.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Lawyers are definitely not needed in this situation.

The easiest solution is to legally finalize the divorce before another marriage.  It's that simple.  It's that easy. 

What's the rush to marry before the divorce is finalized?  Why needlessly complicate life and immigration to the US?  Especially when there's a simple solution.

Edited November 29, 2020 by aaron2020

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

OP. There is a search bar top right. Do a search using some combination of things like nikah (or niqah) legal divorce. See the knots people tie themselves into immigration wise. Then decide again if you think you don’t need to wait until your divorce is legal before entering a nikah. 

[Pinkrlion 2,724]

4 hours ago, Gibuntu said:

@JeanneAdil no I haven't answered my own question, because, the UK doesn't class the Nikah as legal, I had two marriages in Tanzania the Nikah to fufill the Islamic requirements which is not legal in the UK and a Legal/Registration marriage to fufill the legal requirements to bring my then wife to the UK to be with me. Hence why I'm Islamicaly divorced but not legally divorced. Islamic divorce was Talaq, she asked for it and I gave it, the waiting period is now over.

 

@SusieQQQ Thank you very much for your advice, If I knew a legal divorce could be finished quickly I would being doing that instead.

 

@aaron2020 Is it still Bigamy if I'm no longer married Islamicly to my ex and the marriage to my fiancee is not a legal one?

 

 

@Pinkrlion Not legally unless the US does count the Islamic Nikah as a legal contract, as far I was aware it's not, if anyone would like to correct me, please do. And not Islamicaly as I'm no longer Islamicaly married to my ex.

 

Thank you everyone for your responses so far!!!

 

If everything was finalised on the divorce end legal and Islamicly what would my options be if I do intend to settle later on and do the Islamic Nikah now?

 

US vs USCIS are two different things...

 

IMMIGRATION - USCIS counts any form of marriage as married.  Religious Celebration is included.  You can Google and see that fiance visas were denied because Immigration believed their religious celebration was a wedding.  

 

USCIS only accepts a DIVORCE issued and certified by the Courts.  You can Google that also, Immigration denied several decree nisi without the certified decree absolute.  

 

You will be accused of having two wives and any attempts to have her immigrate will be denied.  

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Pinkrlion

[JFH 12,191]

USCIS is a legal institution that deals with legal matters and statuses. It’s not a religious institution. You must be legally divorced before you proceed with any immigration path with the new woman. If you want to pursue the fiancé visa then you must be “legally free to marry” in the USA - in other words all prior marriages legally terminated, not just religiously. If you want to pursue the spouse visa then you will need to be legally divorced and legally remarried. A legal divorce is a must whichever way you dice it or slice it. 
 

There are other issues embedded on your post - you mention both being disabled. You should research the affidavit of support requirements and also how you will be able to afford healthcare that meets all your needs. 
 

If you want to pursue the fiancé visa you have to physically meet in the two years prior to her filing the petition so that needs to be accomplished before you get ahead of yourselves with visa paperwork. Obviously if you want to pursue the spouse visa you will have to meet also. 
 

You mention wanting to wait “6 to 12 months” before settling with her in the USA. That’s not going to happen with either the fiancé of spouse visa. Both will take upwards of 12 months. I would spend some time getting to know each very well - the more time you spend together in person , the better, in the eyes of the embassy. That’s probably a good thing to do anyway because from what I’m reading after a few days of online flirtation she left her boyfriend and decided to marry you. I’d have concerns if I were in your shoes that she was maybe just carried away with the thrill and excitement of the clandestine flirting behind her boyfriend’s back. Marriage and immigration are huge stressful and emotional commitments, and require a bit more thought than a few days.