E-2 visa renewal and hiring employees

[Alex03 0]

12 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Well not always anyway

What do you mean "not always"? The problem would occur if it was the way around, active E2 but expired I-94, at that point I'd technically be illegal.

 

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you are here landlocked

Not too many places anyway to go on holiday when 1) you spend a ton of money to start a business 2) there is a pandemic.

We knew the first year of course was gonna be hard, we knew there is a lot of completion in this industry and especially in LA, we were prepared for everything but a virus...

 

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and sounds like the Lawyer is giving you a heads up about the need to meet your Business plan obligations this year, which will be something he would want to show when either applying for continuing status in the US or seeking a Visa.

I don't even know how much I trust my lawyer to be honest since we were supposed to get a 5-year E2 visa for the type of investment we made, at the end we got only 1 (following every the lawyer told us to do and say) and we're in this situation. Had we a 5-year E2 visa I wouldn't be worried because we'd have a lot more time to adjust things and I repeat, it's not that we don't want to hire an employee because we'd love to take some time off leaving someone else managing the shop, it's just because we can't afford it right now, we're talking about a few months at this point, the vaccine is coming.

[Boiler 45,520]

Well obviously I do not know the specifics of your case but 2 years for a start up is what I would expect.

 

So you planned to employ staff in Year 3 and we are just starting Year 3 so that is a positive, the issue from a practical perspective is nearly 2 years out as you are not looking for a Visa.

[Alex03 0]

20 hours ago, Boiler said:

Well obviously I do not know the specifics of your case but 2 years for a start up is what I would expect.

Actually the first E-2 visa is supposed to be for 5 years, then renewals every 2 years. Judging a business after only 2 years of operation is pretty much useless and impossible, especially if we're talking about restaurants and similar businesses, many of them don't make any profit for the first year(s).

[Boiler 45,520]

3 minutes ago, Alex03 said:

Actually the first E-2 visa is supposed to be for 5 years, then renewals every 2 years. Judging a business after only 2 years of operation is pretty much useless and impossible, especially if we're talking about restaurants and similar businesses, many of them don't make any profit for the first year(s).

It is the other way around, all comes back to meeting your Business Plan, and I have never though Restaurants were E2 friendly due to the very nature of the business.

[Alex03 0]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

It is the other way around, all comes back to meeting your Business Plan, and I have never though Restaurants were E2 friendly due to the very nature of the business.

Has anyone made a 2-year business plan? I always knew they were at least 5 years because especially the first year there are always things to fix and change. You can make the best business plan ever but real life is different. Do they help? Yes, of course, a lot! Does it mean you're 100% sure to make money? Absolutely not, otherwise why would businesses fail?

 

Just to make you an example in January 2020, not exactly near our location but not even far away, opened a store selling our same product, the difference is that it's a franchising and they have behind a pretty big company, they have tens of stores. They closed in June. They lasted 6 months. I'm pretty sure they had a business plan as well...

[Boiler 45,520]

As Napoleon said no plan survives contact with the enemy, and I have always considered a business plan to be an ideal and not something that is set in stone.

 

And generalisations are just that, for example an In and Out opened a few days ago in Denver, their take out had a 14 hour line, not sure how you can plan that. Or how long it will last.

 

Lots of hoops you need to jump through when on a visa and business choices you would not make but need to due to the visa.

[Alex03 0]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

Lots of hoops you need to jump through when on a visa and business choices you would not make but need to due to the visa.

Absolutely, but if the E2 visa was valid only for 2 years as a standard (instead of 5) I don't think it'd very appealing: who would risk $150-300k (because that's the average for a E2) to be "judged" after 2 years? Pretty much no one because no matter how much you believe in yourself, the risk would be too high, too many factors in the game. And those who have so much money they don't care about $2-300k directly go for other visa categories.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

Lots of hoops you need to jump through when on a visa and business choices you would not make but need to due to the visa.

At the risk of getting piled on again by OP, this is the crux of it. The investment capital is capital at risk and that is what gets you the visa - if it was an easy assured return you wouldn’t get any incentive to do it. Significant capital, and you get a visa that (if the business meets goals) effectively lets you stay in the US indefinitely despite it being non-immigrant. Invest even more than that (= put a lot more at risk) and you get a green card in return. But both of these require you to show that the business does what it’s supposed to to stay (eb5 green card is conditional initially). I do think Jan made a good point, best argument is probably that if it’s survived this far it’s going to be viable for more normal conditions. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Alex03 said:

Absolutely, but if the E2 visa was valid only for 2 years as a standard (instead of 5) I don't think it'd very appealing: who would risk $150-300k (because that's the average for a E2) to be "judged" after 2 years? Pretty much no one because no matter how much you believe in yourself, the risk would be too high, too many factors in the game. And those who have so much money they don't care about $2-300k directly go for other visa categories.

EB5 is much more ($900k-$1.8m) and you are indeed  “judged” after 2 years (that is when you apply to remove conditions on your green card by showing you’ve met them). So E2 seems quite favorable by contrast?  
 

 

 

[Boiler 45,520]

Generally for new businesses the first one is 2 years, then 5 years.

 

Remember this is not just for small businesses, very large Companies also use it.

 

I have seen it called the visa from hell, I think that is unfair, ot does what it says think it is more people wanting it to be something it is not.

[Alex03 0]

2 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

At the risk of getting piled on again by OP, this is the crux of it. The investment capital is capital at risk and that is what gets you the visa - if it was an easy assured return you wouldn’t get any incentive to do it. Significant capital, and you get a visa that (if the business meets goals) effectively lets you stay in the US indefinitely despite it being non-immigrant. Invest even more than that (= put a lot more at risk) and you get a green card in return. But both of these require you to show that the business does what it’s supposed to to stay (eb5 green card is conditional initially).

Susie, about the visa terms I'm totally fine, I did my own research, I knew the risks but at the same time I knew why it could go well and why we'd be different from our competitors. And for what is worth, between Google and Yelp we have a total of 84 reviews (which is not a huge number of course but even bad considering that no one gets out anymore) and 81 are 5* and 3 are 4*. I was surprised as well to be honest.

 

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I do think Jan made a good point, best argument is probably that if it’s survived this far it’s going to be viable for more normal conditions. 

We are very confident we can have a better income after the pandemic, also because we didn't move here to work for free, being European I have a ton of choices anyway. The question I keep asking myself is: are they really gonna deny us the visa just because for a few months difference we can't hire 1 employees? We paid tens of thousands of dollars to independent contractors, we bought stuff, we pay a rent, we pay utilities, we pay a lawyer, a CPA, I mean, anyway we spend a lot of money every single month. Here in LA starting from today they're shutting down restaurants again, it's only gonna be deliveries, so if before the 53% closed now it could be even worse, does it economically make sense shutting down a business that is able to survive? Do those $2,000 we'd be paying to an employee have more value than the $10-15k we spend every month? I wanna be clear, I'm not complaining with you, I'm just writing down what's going on in my head.

 

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EB5 is much more ($900k-$1.8m) and you are indeed  “judged” after 2 years (that is when you apply to remove conditions on your green card by showing you’ve met them). So E2 seems quite favorable by contrast?

I have zero knowledge of the EB5 visa since it's something completely outside of my possibilities, so I didn't spend a minute of my time going into details, that's why I'm not gonna comment about the conditions and whether I'd take the risk or not.

 

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

Generally for new businesses the first one is 2 years, then 5 years.

Mmm that's not what I know. This is a copy paste from the first legal website I found:

E2 visas are valid for a period of five years and can be renewed with two-year extensions as long as you maintain the necessary qualifications. As it stands, there are no limits on the number of extensions you can take.

 

The renewal is never for 5 years, it's always 2. And it makes sense because in 5 years everybody has a clear idea if the company actually works or not, and then you basically have to maintain the same money income (or increase it of course) so they just want to check more often that everything keeps going well.

 

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I have seen it called the visa from hell, I think that is unfair, ot does what it says think it is more people wanting it to be something it is not.

Visa from hell is a bit extreme, let's say that, personally, what bothers me more is that too many things are explained in a very general way, of course beginning with the amount of money required: simply saying that "the investment but be adequate depending on the type of business and location" gives space to a lot of interpretation.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

2 minutes ago, Alex03 said:

 

 

Mmm that's not what I know. This is a copy paste from the first legal website I found:

E2 visas are valid for a period of five years and can be renewed with two-year extensions as long as you maintain the necessary qualifications. As it stands, there are no limits on the number of extensions you can take.

 

The renewal is never for 5 years, it's always 2. And it makes sense because in 5 years everybody has a clear idea if the company actually works or not, and then you basically have to maintain the same money income (or increase it of course) so they just want to check more often that everything keeps going well.

 

 

Hmm, legal websites are not always accurate or clear, and I do wonder if you misunderstood - it seems quite common for people to confuse the validity of a visa with the period of authorized stay (which may be longer or shorter depending on visa/when you use the visa). My understanding of the E2 visa was that while the visa is valid for 5 years - meaning you have up to 5 years to use it before it expires, for both initial entry and re-entry if you travel elsewhere - your period of authorized stay is two years at a time. This seems to be backed up by the official USCIS website:

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/e-2-treaty-investors

Period of Stay

Qualified treaty investors and employees will be allowed a maximum initial stay of two years. Requests for extension of stay in, or changes of status to, E-2 classification may be granted in increments of up to two years each. There is no limit to the number of extensions an E-2 nonimmigrant may be granted. All E-2 nonimmigrants, however, must maintain an intention to depart the United States when their status expires or is terminated.

An E-2 nonimmigrant who travels abroad may generally be granted, if determined admissible by a U.S. Customs and Border Patrol Officer, an automatic two-year period of readmission when returning to the United States. 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

Further to above, from another legal website, FAQs on E2

 

https://www.vpimmigration.com/e2-visa-faqs.html
 

The US Consulate gave me a Visa valid for 5 years but the Immigration Officer at the airport said I only have permission to stay in the United States for 2 years – why is that?

This is because a visa only gives you permission to come to the United States and ask for entry in the particular category of your visa. The length of time that the visa is valid for is the length of time in which you can leave and re-enter the United States and ask for permission to enter on the particular visa category. For an E2 visa, the customs and border protection officer can only permit you a length of stay in the United States of a maximum period of 2 years. It is extremely important that you never overstay the date on your I-94 card. You should plan make a trip outside of the U.S. to return prior to the expiration of your E-2 visa to receive an additional two years of E-2 status. We suggest a short trip by plane to the Bahamas, Canada or back to your home country. We don’t recommend a cruise for this purpose.

[Alex03 0]

Ah ok, then I misunderstood what you were saying. Yeah that's absolutely right, visa is 5 years but the I-94 is valid for 2 years, so even if the visa is valid the holder still has to leave the country and come back to get 2 additional years, which is what I did as well. Leaving the country for a few days would't be a big deal, you can take advantage to visit the family, go on holiday, etc, the important thing are the 5 years of visa, those give you a lot possibilities.