Border entry with Thai national wife on B1/B2 visa

[HRQX 4,145]

7 hours ago, Unlockable said:

"Oh, I am gonna wait and see when i return".

Exactly. Once a B-2 traveler says that it's easy for CBP to refuse entry per the INA. For example, INA 212(a)(7)(A)(i)(I) means she would be determined to be inadmissible for being an intending immigrant without a visa that permits immigrant intent.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

15 minutes ago, HRQX said:

Exactly. Once a B-2 traveler says that it's easy for CBP to refuse entry per the INA. For example, INA 212(a)(7)(A)(i)(I) means she would be determined to be inadmissible for being an intending immigrant without a visa that permits immigrant intent.

...and once she’s refused entry once on a tourist visa that makes it very hard to get to visit again. She may or may not get the B visa actually cancelled, but the denial of entry is on her record forever.
Perhaps also worth noting that a denied entry could affect other tourist visas she might need - the UK, Canada and Australia visit visa applications among others ask if one has ever been denied entry/refused a visa anywhere. Maybe she never plans to visit those countries and it’s not a concern, but just something to mention in case it is.

[milktea 0]

11 hours ago, Calicolom said:

Everyone has larger pros and cons, and unique, situations. What, When, and Where, is what the border patrol will ask.

You forgot "Why" 

[milktea 0]

11 hours ago, Loren Y said:

Why come all the way to the US. I have renewed My Type-O spousal visa ( I am assuming you are living there on this, as I have) and I would always just make a quick run/trip to the Thai embassy in Cambodia. I would plan for 3 days, but IF I dropped everything off in the morning I would pick up my new visa at the latest the next morning, maybe the next day in the afternoon, and then make my way back to Thailand. I would reccomend this, and avoid the US all together. You don't want to come here now, trust me, I am so close to jumping ship as the lock-downs and curfews begin again. I would stay where you are.

 

No legal job prospects that pay sufficiently for me outside of moving across the country to BKK, though, and converting to a B work visa.  Leaving the country to do that runs into the quarantine, expense, and downtime problems listed below.  And as I've researched, both according to actual law and all anecdotal evidence from reliable sources, attempting to get a B visa in-country or convert to an O visa by reason of work is technically legal, but too dicey, too open to arbitrary interpretation and rejection by the authorities on any given day, and just too uncertain.  You know how it works here: every immigration office here is a kingdom unto their own and has tremendous leeway to (mis)interpret the national law as they see fit.

 

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On a side note, I know of at least 3 Thai friends of my wifes and that I know that have entered within the past 3 months on tourist visas with no issues.

 

The $64,000 question is if they had a US national spouse at the time of entry, though. 

 

 

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As another side note, I have found it easier just to keep 400,000 Baht in a savings account at Bangkok Bank, and I just renew while in country. I am thinking you don't have the income to renew in Thailand, so that is why you want to leave and return, I recommend Cambodia.

 

Correct.  We don't have the income to convert my multiple-entry O visa in-country to a standard O that can be renewed yearly in-country.  The only SE Asian Thai embassies that offer the multiple-entry O are Savannakhet, Laos and HCMC, Vietnam, and both of those countries have a 14-day mandatory state facility quarantine, plus mandatory tests, insurance, and Fitness to Fly certificates.  Then I get to repeat the process on re-entry to Thailand, so what was formerly a 3-day outlay of time is now one month.  When you have a chronic illness--as I do--that requires a strict diet or facing a relapse, that's a serious concern for 28 days at a glorified hotel where you're locked in your room all day and dependent on them to prepare (sight unseen) and bring you your food.  Btw, Cambodia has similar COVID restrictions in place as well, which, while understandable, narrows my path considerably.

 

I hear you on avoiding the US for now, and you're preaching to the choir, but right now it's the best crappy option among several crappy options.  It is what it is.

In the US, at least I'll be in a part of the country in the top 20%, COVID-wise and job-wise, and can do any job I can get there without the red tape of dealing with Thai uber-protectionist employment red tape.  And I'll have a comparative advantage for the amount of money I can save every month compared to what's likely in Thailand.  The glaring problem is being away from my wife for God knows how long, especially if Biden lowers the proverbial COVID boom on border crossings after taking office.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by milktea
mistake in quoting

[milktea 0]

10 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

...and once she’s refused entry once on a tourist visa that makes it very hard to get to visit again. She may or may not get the B visa actually cancelled, but the denial of entry is on her record forever.
Perhaps also worth noting that a denied entry could affect other tourist visas she might need - the UK, Canada and Australia visit visa applications among others ask if one has ever been denied entry/refused a visa anywhere. Maybe she never plans to visit those countries and it’s not a concern, but just something to mention in case it is.

Yes, I've reached this sad conclusion as well.

[Loren Y 2,755]

10 minutes ago, milktea said:

 

No legal job prospects that pay sufficiently for me outside of moving across the country to BKK, though, and converting to a B work visa.  Leaving the country to do that runs into the quarantine, expense, and downtime problems listed below.  And as I've researched, both according to actual law and all anecdotal evidence from reliable sources, attempting to get a B visa in-country or convert to an O visa by reason of work is technically legal, but too dicey, too open to arbitrary interpretation and rejection by the authorities on any given day, and just too uncertain.  You know how it works here: every immigration office here is a kingdom unto their own and has tremendous leeway to (mis)interpret the national law as they see fit.

 

 

The $64,000 question is if they had a US national spouse at the time of entry, though. 

 

 

 

Correct.  We don't have the income to convert my multiple-entry O visa in-country to a standard O that can be renewed yearly in-country.  The only SE Asian Thai embassies that offer the multiple-entry O are Savannakhet, Laos and HCMC, Vietnam, and both of those countries have a 14-day mandatory state facility quarantine, plus mandatory tests, insurance, and Fitness to Fly certificates.  Then I get to repeat the process on re-entry to Thailand, so what was formerly a 3-day outlay of time is now one month.  When you have a chronic illness--as I do--that requires a strict diet or facing a relapse, that's a serious concern for 28 days at a glorified hotel where you're locked in your room all day and dependent on them to prepare (sight unseen) and bring you your food.  Btw, Cambodia has similar COVID restrictions in place as well, which, while understandable, narrows my path considerably.

 

I hear you on avoiding the US for now, and you're preaching to the choir, but right now it's the best crappy option among several crappy options.  It is what it is.

 

True, I guess the quarantine would make it more lengthy and costly. Even if you don't get a multi entry visa, if I know I'm not leaving Thailand many times, you can just get a standard O single entry, and if you have to leave you can get a reentry permit for 1000 baht. 

I do understand your headache with the Thai immigration offices, that's why I find a good one and stick with it. Like I do with my Thai driver's license, I always go back to the office that I originally got it at because they seem on top of their game and I never have any issues, even if it is a drive for me, but it's only every 5 years now, so not too bad.

[milktea 0]

1 minute ago, Loren Y said:

True, I guess the quarantine would make it more lengthy and costly. Even if you don't get a multi entry visa, if I know I'm not leaving Thailand many times, you can just get a standard O single entry, and if you have to leave you can get a reentry permit for 1000 baht. 

I do understand your headache with the Thai immigration offices, that's why I find a good one and stick with it. Like I do with my Thai driver's license, I always go back to the office that I originally got it at because they seem on top of their game and I never have any issues, even if it is a drive for me, but it's only every 5 years now, so not too bad.

Oh, man.  I've lived in 6 cities around Thailand in almost 10 years, and our current jurisdiction is the worst of the bunch.  Whereas the other places were firm but fair, this place is just obstructionism and nasty attitude to farang the whole way.  Politeness, calmness, and professional dress on my part seems to make little difference.  The second-worst was the previous town we lived in.  I mention these two places to my other long-term expat friends living here, and they just shake their heads slowly and say, "I'm sorry." 

[Loren Y 2,755]

3 minutes ago, milktea said:

Oh, man.  I've lived in 6 cities around Thailand in almost 10 years, and our current jurisdiction is the worst of the bunch.  Whereas the other places were firm but fair, this place is just obstructionism and nasty attitude to farang the whole way.  Politeness, calmness, and professional dress on my part seems to make little difference.  The second-worst was the previous town we lived in.  I mention these two places to my other long-term expat friends living here, and they just shake their heads slowly and say, "I'm sorry." 

I have probably been to one of those 2 you mentioned, and never go back. I am like you, dress respectively, be nice, stick the the old adage you get more flies with honey than vinegar or whatever that is. I have dealt with what you say myself. I've been back in the US for a while now so I am a little out of the game. But I had it pretty sweet where I was living, and will go back to. I could basically phone in my 90 day check-in ( not that it's heavily enforced) and I have found to have little issues as long as I keep a low profile and don't make any waves. I've found I am pretty much left alone.

Another option, though you don't want to hear it, is to leave the wife at home and go to work for 6 months or whatever, make some cash, then move back after all the hoopla is done. Yes, your apart from your loved ones, but sometimes it's the best option. I left my wife in Thailand for 3 months when I left to do a contract job in Dubai ( couldn't pass up the money) and I was able to get her a tourist visa to come to Dubai before I left after work was done, and we had a great time on a little holiday before back to home. She has done the same thing. She went to work in St. Petersburg russia for about 4 months one time ( once again, couldn't pass up the money). It's things like this that can test your relationship, but it seems to have made ours better. Everyone here has had to be separated usually for more time than they want to, but it's the price you pay. While it sucks, I'm not saying it's a good thing. As they say, when life gives you lemons.... You know. LOL. Good luck with whatever you decide.