Thai spouse tourist visa to US denied.

[Just Paul 4,595]

2 hours ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

He completed the spouse visa start to finish in 155 days. 

I don't know why you keep quoting him.  You can't do it that fast:

1) DCF is now long available as there is no longer an  USCIS international Field Office there

   https://www.aila.org/infonet/uscis-to-close-all-international-offices-by-2020#:~:text=USCIS will permanently close its field office in Bangkok%2C Thailand,public is October 18%2C 2019.

2) you don't have exceptional circumstances

3) you haven't filed so you can't expedite

 

We realize you want to bring her here but you don't want to hear or learn the basics of the spousal process.

 

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

4 hours ago, Paul & Mary said:

I don't know why you keep quoting him.  You can't do it that fast:

1) DCF is now long available as there is no longer an  USCIS international Field Office there

   https://www.aila.org/infonet/uscis-to-close-all-international-offices-by-2020#:~:text=USCIS will permanently close its field office in Bangkok%2C Thailand,public is October 18%2C 2019.

2) you don't have exceptional circumstances

3) you haven't filed so you can't expedite

 

We realize you want to bring her here but you don't want to hear or learn the basics of the spousal process.

 

You have missed the point of my original post, which is clearly defined in the title. I DO NOT want to bring my wife there to live. I have not applied to do so.  I have not been to the US since 2003. I only want to take my wife with me on a visit to meet family and for me to reconnect with kids and a few grandkids I have never met. The discussion was only meant to be about the "visa denial process". The whole I130 discussion has been an offshoot someone suggested as an alternative. 

 

We only just settled in here after returning from Australia in December 2018. My wife was in the middle of the spouse visa process while living in Australia and would have gotten citizenship and a passport next year. But she decided she would rather live near her family. So I retired and imported my whole garage from Australia, including tools, motorcycle lifts and my classic Harley. If we wanted to leave Thailand permanently, we would go back to Australia. Fantastic public health care system. You will never see a bill for any hospital treatment from emergency room to cancer surgery. Moderate climate. Free old age pension at 66. Friendly embassy. 

 

I do rather suspect that if we went back to Australia, she could get a visitor visa to the US without much trouble, as she wouldn't need to show compelling reasons to return to Thailand.

 

The problem with the visitor visa denial process is they deny the visa with the simple statement, "You failed to demonstrate compelling reasons to return". That is overly vague. And I am being kind in that assessment. To further state, "You may reapply at any time, but it is not recommended to do so unless your circumstances change", is a pointless statement, as it makes no point at all. How is a person to know if their circumstances change, if they won't tell you on what basis you were denied?  It is rather like having your doctor tell you, you will die soon if you don't change. But he refuses to tell you how long you have to live, what you are dying from, or what you need to change.

 

Further, in an email to me from the consulate, it was stated, "The official has typically made a decision before the interview, based only on what is on the application form". Based on that statement, the interview is just a formality to say there was one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by rickbechard@gmail

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

5 hours ago, Paul & Mary said:

I don't know why you keep quoting him.  You can't do it that fast:

1) DCF is now long available as there is no longer an  USCIS international Field Office there

   https://www.aila.org/infonet/uscis-to-close-all-international-offices-by-2020#:~:text=USCIS will permanently close its field office in Bangkok%2C Thailand,public is October 18%2C 2019.

2) you don't have exceptional circumstances

3) you haven't filed so you can't expedite

 

We realize you want to bring her here but you don't want to hear or learn the basics of the spousal process.

 

Not trying to be argumentative here. Really just trying to have a discussion about the visitor visa process. Regarding the I130 process, as the current popular phase goes, "this isn't my first rodeo". In 1990 I submitted a petition under the UNHCR to bring my then wife's daughter from Vietnam. Got the girl to the US, then into Malaysia where I lived and worked. In 2002 I did my own immigration from the US to Australia. In 2017 my wife's immigration to Australia. Understanding forms and following directions isn't really that hard. I do however feel compelled to call out areas I find flawed at a basic level. 

Going back to the visitor visa denial explanation given, it seems grossly unfair to take 5000 baht from a Thai time and again, while denying the visa time and again, without the slightest explanation. Perhaps the embassy website should list things (secure job, home ownership, bank account records) that would qualify the applicant for the visa. But then, my wife had evidence of all those, but they neither asked for them or were interested when offered. 

[Boiler 45,557]

52 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

Not trying to be argumentative here. Really just trying to have a discussion about the visitor visa process. Regarding the I130 process, as the current popular phase goes, "this isn't my first rodeo". In 1990 I submitted a petition under the UNHCR to bring my then wife's daughter from Vietnam. Got the girl to the US, then into Malaysia where I lived and worked. In 2002 I did my own immigration from the US to Australia. In 2017 my wife's immigration to Australia. Understanding forms and following directions isn't really that hard. I do however feel compelled to call out areas I find flawed at a basic level. 

Going back to the visitor visa denial explanation given, it seems grossly unfair to take 5000 baht from a Thai time and again, while denying the visa time and again, without the slightest explanation. Perhaps the embassy website should list things (secure job, home ownership, bank account records) that would qualify the applicant for the visa. But then, my wife had evidence of all those, but they neither asked for them or were interested when offered. 

What is 5000 baht compared to the cost of a multi month vacation in the US?

 

I personally agree that making people attend the interview seems pointless when it is just to receive a denial, but to be fair to the Consulate they have no choice.

 

I was actually refused a B, still have a UK bank account, property etc but obviously live in the US.

[SusnOwen 159]

15 hours ago, Paul & Mary said:

DCF is long gone, only for exceptional circumstances.

DCF is not long gone when the petitioner lives overseas.  There is a way to request a waiver based on exceptional circumstances.  At the very least, it is worth a try.

[Boiler 45,557]

4 minutes ago, SusnOwen said:

DCF is not long gone when the petitioner lives overseas.  There is a way to request a waiver based on exceptional circumstances.  At the very least, it is worth a try.

You quoted what you said.

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

What is 5000 baht compared to the cost of a multi month vacation in the US?

 

I personally agree that making people attend the interview seems pointless when it is just to receive a denial, but to be fair to the Consulate they have no choice.

 

I was actually refused a B, still have a UK bank account, property etc but obviously live in the US.

To me 5000 baht is not so much. But to your everyday Thai that is perhaps a third to half a months pay. That is why I said, just list minimum requirements on the website. Point out the reason for denial. For instance, "You don't have any evidence of a secure job, home ownership or bank account showing you have funds to support yourself on this trip". Something that would at least dissuade a person from reapplying with the same circumstances. To be vague as to the denial, accept another application and fee deny and repeat is just a bad look for America.

[Boiler 45,557]

Just now, rickbechard@gmail said:

To me 5000 baht is not so much. But to your everyday Thai that is perhaps a third to half a months pay. That is why I said, just list minimum requirements on the website. Point out the reason for denial. For instance, "You don't have any evidence of a secure job, home ownership or bank account showing you have funds to support yourself on this trip". Something that would at least dissuade a person from reapplying with the same circumstances. To be vague as to the denial, accept another application and fee deny and repeat is just a bad look for America.

Why would you everyday Thai with such a low income look to vacation in the US? 

 

And having been refused once why would you apply again?

 

 

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

2 hours ago, SusnOwen said:

DCF is not long gone when the petitioner lives overseas.  There is a way to request a waiver based on exceptional circumstances.  At the very least, it is worth a try.

Don't know what a DCF is. Don't really think I have exceptional circumstances. Well, my mother (85) who I have not seen since 2003 was found unconscious in her apartment a couple of months back, which started the whole drive to make a visit. But she seems to be doing OK now. Still, time to go home and have a long visit before it is too late. Just want a visitor visa to take the wife along.

[Mystery 2020 30]

OP, I understand your frustration but there's one thing you really need to understand. There's no guaranteed way to get granted a B2 regardless of life circumstances, and it's that way on purpose. It gives the CO at the interview the power to decide for whatever reason they want whether to grant or deny. By law they assume every applicant has immigration intent.

 

I got a B2 visa a few years ago in my EU passport (live in UK, my EU country is not part of VWP). Asked the usual questions, approved no problem. My work colleague, who has the exact same job as me as well as the exact same salary, similar circumstances (Non EU passport but lived in UK same length as me) got denied for a B2. On paper we are the same, but he got denied and I didn't. Why? Who knows... Maybe because his passport is African.. or maybe the CO didn't like the way he answered the questions. It really doesn't matter though, the CO made the decision, whether it's fair or not, like they can.

 

The US has its rules, if someone wants to visit then they follow those rules and apply and find out if they can.

 

For your wife's specific case, having a USC husband made it harder for her. Is it fair? Probably not, but it's not up to us to decide how to grant or deny visas. If you don't like the law then do something to get it changed. Otherwise accept the facts.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Mystery 2020

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Why would you everyday Thai with such a low income look to vacation in the US? 

 

And having been refused once why would you apply again?

 

 

Oh...I don't know. The same reason Mexicans risk crossing the border. The same reason people get on boats out of Indonesia bound for Australia. The same reason my grandfather crossed the border from Canada in 1907. Everyone wants a better life. And there is that pesky invite on the Statue of Liberty.

 

As for reapplying, the letter they give them says, "you can reapply anytime". There are also quite a number of people who say they were denied in Chiang Mai, reapplied and were approved in Bangkok. So that says an approval is subject to the mood, disposition, bias of one official or the other.

[Boiler 45,557]

7 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

Oh...I don't know. The same reason Mexicans risk crossing the border. The same reason people get on boats out of Indonesia bound for Australia. The same reason my grandfather crossed the border from Canada in 1907. Everyone wants a better life. And there is that pesky invite on the Statue of Liberty.

 

As for reapplying, the letter they give them says, "you can reapply anytime". There are also quite a number of people who say they were denied in Chiang Mai, reapplied and were approved in Bangkok. So that says an approval is subject to the mood, disposition, bias of one official or the other.

This is to visit not immigrate, sounds they are confused.

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

27 minutes ago, Mystery 2020 said:

OP, I understand your frustration but there's one thing you really need to understand. There's no guaranteed way to get granted a B2 regardless of life circumstances, and it's that way on purpose. It gives the CO at the interview the power to decide for whatever reason they want whether to grant or deny. By law they assume every applicant has immigration intent.

 

I got a B2 visa a few years ago in my EU passport (live in UK, my EU country is not part of VWP). Asked the usual questions, approved no problem. My work colleague, who has the exact same job as me as well as the exact same salary, similar circumstances (Non EU passport but lived in UK same length as me) got denied for a B2. On paper we are the same, but he got denied and I didn't. Why? Who knows... Maybe because his passport is African.. or maybe the CO didn't like the way he answered the questions. It really doesn't matter though, the CO made the decision, whether it's fair or not, like they can.

 

The US has its rules, if someone wants to visit then they follow those rules and apply and find out if they can.

 

For your wife's specific case, having a USC husband made it harder for her. Is it fair? Probably not, but it's not up to us to decide how to grant or deny visas. If you don't like the law then do something to get it changed. Otherwise accept the facts.

You might think a 64 year old would have figured all that out at least 20 years ago. And you'd be right.

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

16 minutes ago, Boiler said:

This is to visit not immigrate, sounds they are confused.

Sorry that made me chuckle. Lots of confusion to go around in this thread. Should really put it to bed before it becomes bigger than Ben Hur.

[Just Paul 4,595]

40 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

Don't know what a DCF is.

The variant that your friends @jamesandor did by filing at the now closed Bangkok USCIS office.

 

35 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

So that says an approval is subject to the mood, disposition, bias of one official or the other.

She has to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent. Her presentation and demeanor at the interview is critical since you can't provide documentation before the interview and a consulate officer is not required to look at or consider anything brought into an interview.  If there is a large age gap it may be hard to overcome unless you have significant assets in Thailand.  Maybe the 3rd time is the charm.

 

3 hours ago, SusnOwen said:

DCF is not long gone when the petitioner lives overseas.

Exceptional circumstances is always allowed for consideration at any consulate.  DCF when filed at an (remaining) USCIS International Field Office is no longer allowed by USCIS policy.  Bangkok USCIS is permanently closed.