Thai spouse tourist visa to US denied.

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

I am an American originally, but hold Australian citizenship as well. My Thai wife and I have lived in Thailand for 2 years. I am retired. Prior to that, she lived with me in Australia for 15 months with a spouse visa there in progress. That was before I retired. I have not been to the US since 2003. My wife applied for a tourist visa to accompany me on a trip for 3-6 months. She presented evidence of our home here, our motel business registration here, her university degrees, marriage certificate, house registrations, even her previous 6 years work as an interpreter for the Bangkok Drug Squad. Still denied the visa. She was only given a letter that stated she "failed to show she had compelling reasons to return".

 

In a somewhat terse email exchange with the consulate in Chiang Mai, I explained that if we wanted her to stay in the US, I would just do a I130 immigrant application. No need to prove you will return. I also pointed out that as an Australian, I and my wife could easily be back in Australia within a week if getting out of Thailand and not returning was the goal.

 

This seems ignorant to me. The application requested my contact information, email, phone number etc. They had the application for 1 month before the "interview". Yet, there was no attempt to verify anything with me. What is the point of asking? The email from the consulate stated that the officer has typically made a decision before the interview, solely based on the information on the application. In the interview, she was asked how many cars she has and where will she park them when she is gone. I fail to see the relevance of that. As to "compelling reasons to return", those are fleeting at best. Once a visa is granted, those reasons can evaporate. Your business closes, etc.

It isn't a financial issue because while she was carrying her bank book, there was no request to see it. The guy did ask to see the business registration, looked at it and said "denied". 

 

My wife said there was a guy in front of her who had been to the US a few times and was denied this time. Another a woman who was a doctor also denied. There seems to be some falsehood in the statement on the embassy website that they are now issuing visitor visas. Either there are only a few available or none at all. Either way they are taking a lot of application fees that they don't refund.

[JFH 12,190]

It happens to many spouses and other family members of USCs. All I can say is, you can “thank” her fellow country folk who also presented evidence of why they need to return home to the visa officer but then, as you are well aware, these reasons “evaporated” and they subsequently overstayed or even adjusted status. 
 

There is a school of thought that suggests applying for an immigrant visa (although this does require multiple hoops to be jumped through) and then entering the US and returning the green card that is issued to the embassy with the remarks that she “had the opportunity to immigrate legally but still came home to Thailand”. Would I recommend that? Not necessarily but other people have done it.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

As above. Many people have taken the shortcut of “visiting” and then adjusting status rather than waiting the year or do it takes to process spouse visas, and this affects others applying for tourist visas who are able to do the same thing.  So suspicion on your wife from what others have done. Unfortunately, a trip that can take up to 6 months (you said 3-6) does often imply there is nothing pressing to return to... even 3 months is quite long to be away from running a business, etc. If you don’t need to physically be there to do it, it isn’t a tie.
 

32 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

 

My wife said there was a guy in front of her who had been to the US a few times and was denied this time. Another a woman who was a doctor also denied. There seems to be some falsehood in the statement on the embassy website that they are now issuing visitor visas. Either there are only a few available or none at all. Either way they are taking a lot of application fees that they don't refund.

If they are scheduling tourist visa appointments then they are issuing visitor visas. The fee is for the visa interview, so it makes no difference to them from that perspective whether they approve or deny, and they will do so on what they consider the merits of the case. It sounds like they have become more strict with Thai visas if what your wife heard on her visit is typical these days - the refusal rate for b visas last fiscal year was 23%, which is not low but not particularly high either.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Loren Y 2,755]

I'm impressed, from what you said your wife actually got to sit down in a chair for a few minutes. When my now wife applied for a tourist visa she went for the interview and when they called her she didn't even get to sit down. The CO just handed her the denied paper and sent her on the way. Living in Vegas I have blown 160 dollars pretty fast at the tables or slots, but not as fast as I did with the tourist visa application. 

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

8 hours ago, Loren Y said:

I'm impressed, from what you said your wife actually got to sit down in a chair for a few minutes. When my now wife applied for a tourist visa she went for the interview and when they called her she didn't even get to sit down. The CO just handed her the denied paper and sent her on the way. Living in Vegas I have blown 160 dollars pretty fast at the tables or slots, but not as fast as I did with the tourist visa application. 

No sitting. Just stand at the window. The interview is (removed). The guy asked if she had a copy of the business registration for her motel. Most likely expecting she wouldn't. She did. he looked at it and pushed it back and said denied. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Unlockable
language

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

1 hour ago, SusieQQQ said:

As above. Many people have taken the shortcut of “visiting” and then adjusting status rather than waiting the year or do it takes to process spouse visas, and this affects others applying for tourist visas who are able to do the same thing.  So suspicion on your wife from what others have done. Unfortunately, a trip that can take up to 6 months (you said 3-6) does often imply there is nothing pressing to return to... even 3 months is quite long to be away from running a business, etc. If you don’t need to physically be there to do it, it isn’t a tie.
 

If they are scheduling tourist visa appointments then they are issuing visitor visas. The fee is for the visa interview, so it makes no difference to them from that perspective whether they approve or deny, and they will do so on what they consider the merits of the case. It sounds like they have become more strict with Thai visas if what your wife heard on her visit is typical these days - the refusal rate for b visas last fiscal year was 23%, which is not low but not particularly high either.

 

 

Well....thinking logically about it, which they don't, if one were being dishonest, they would say 1 week, knowing they plan to disappear. So if the person says my husband said he would like to stay 3 months, that probably is the plan. As I understand it, what is given is a 10 year entry permit. The length of stay is set by the immigration officer at the port of entry. The first one is almost always 6 months I am told. So why the shock if a person knows this and says I want to stay 3 months?

She also has two exit stamps from Suvarnabhumi, which means she has travelled international and presumably returned. Again logical thinking required.

It's like the 5 page security questionnaire. Are you going to the US to engage in terrorist activities? Are you going to the US to engage in prostitution? Are you going to the US to engage in espionage? Seriously, who is going to answer yes to any of those, even if they had those intentions. But as long as they feel you have "compelling reasons to return" they are going to accept those answers. Because of course if you were going to conduct a bit of terrorism, you would be compelled to return as soon as you did it.

She told them her husband said he would like to stay 3 months as he had not seen his mother in 17 years. And to repeat my earlier point, when you have an applicant who gives you a 3 year old marriage certificate to an American, if you are thinking logically (already explained above), you would know that if the couple wanted to stay in the US they would just do the immigrant visa and be done. 

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

2 hours ago, JFH said:

It happens to many spouses and other family members of USCs. All I can say is, you can “thank” her fellow country folk who also presented evidence of why they need to return home to the visa officer but then, as you are well aware, these reasons “evaporated” and they subsequently overstayed or even adjusted status. 
 

There is a school of thought that suggests applying for an immigrant visa (although this does require multiple hoops to be jumped through) and then entering the US and returning the green card that is issued to the embassy with the remarks that she “had the opportunity to immigrate legally but still came home to Thailand”. Would I recommend that? Not necessarily but other people have done it.

Yes, I understand the problem of illegal immigrants. We happen to know a much younger woman than us who tried for a visitor visa last year. She was denied , because of course she had no reason to go, no job here, no house here, and frankly she just wanted to go find a husband. Was happy to hear she got denied. But when presented with a documented 3 year marriage to an American, there should be a different approach. If it was a 2 week old marriage ok. But 3 years on a 5 year relationship, with the husband in Thailand on a marriage visa, that should indicate they are settled here.

[Sparkle Sparkle 914]

29 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

Well....thinking logically about it, which they don't, if one were being dishonest, they would say 1 week, knowing they plan to disappear. So if the person says my husband said he would like to stay 3 months, that probably is the plan. As I understand it, what is given is a 10 year entry permit. The length of stay is set by the immigration officer at the port of entry. The first one is almost always 6 months I am told. So why the shock if a person knows this and says I want to stay 3 months?

She also has two exit stamps from Suvarnabhumi, which means she has travelled international and presumably returned. Again logical thinking required.

It's like the 5 page security questionnaire. Are you going to the US to engage in terrorist activities? Are you going to the US to engage in prostitution? Are you going to the US to engage in espionage? Seriously, who is going to answer yes to any of those, even if they had those intentions. But as long as they feel you have "compelling reasons to return" they are going to accept those answers. Because of course if you were going to conduct a bit of terrorism, you would be compelled to return as soon as you did it.

She told them her husband said he would like to stay 3 months as he had not seen his mother in 17 years. And to repeat my earlier point, when you have an applicant who gives you a 3 year old marriage certificate to an American, if you are thinking logically (already explained above), you would know that if the couple wanted to stay in the US they would just do the immigrant visa and be done. 

First of all I understand how you feel...but I must point out that as far as she is not a citizen or a legal resident of the USA ,a visa is not a right. Most times after they review cases they have already made up their mind and highlighted areas and questions to ask to justify denial those are the VO with conscience...But others will just go straight ahead and deny the visa without questions. 

 

Its true the DS 160 is filled with questions that might sound irrelevant, but they are control questions that is fashioned to work against you later....If you read them properly you see the are guarded questions dictating terms of your visa .

 

How long you allowed to stay is determined at the POE. However short visits are logical as against longer visits ....if you are working you cannot take 6 months leave and spend it in another country while paying bills in your country of origin. If you are self employed you face even harder scrutiny ....If your work is internet based or something you can do from anywhere they get concerned if you will work in the USA.

 

You have a fiancé/fiancée or a spouse....they they will ask you if you plan to stay or get married to trap you with the substantial misinformation fraud. 

 

Either why you look at it US visa is a privilege not a right.

 

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

First of all I understand how you feel...but I must point out that as far as she is not a citizen or a legal resident of the USA ,a visa is not a right. Most times after they review cases they have already made up their mind and highlighted areas and questions to ask to justify denial those are the VO with conscience...But others will just go straight ahead and deny the visa without questions. 

 

Its true the DS 160 is filled with questions that might sound irrelevant, but they are control questions that is fashioned to work against you later....If you read them properly you see the are guarded questions dictating terms of your visa .

 

How long you allowed to stay is determined at the POE. However short visits are logical as against longer visits ....if you are working you cannot take 6 months leave and spend it in another country while paying bills in your country of origin. If you are self employed you face even harder scrutiny ....If your work is internet based or something you can do from anywhere they get concerned if you will work in the USA.

 

You have a fiancé/fiancée or a spouse....they they will ask you if you plan to stay or get married to trap you with the substantial misinformation fraud. 

 

Either why you look at it US visa is a privilege not a right.

 

A visa for the spouse of an American citizen should warrant some higher level of reason to deny. Doesn't mean it is a right for the foreign person, but the citizen should be accorded some right in travel with their spouse. As for security questions, not a single one of those is in the I130 form. So, does that mean you can be any of those and slip on through? 

Different people have different situations. My wife's parents live at the motel. They do most of the work along with an aunt. They prefer it that way, probably so I don't throw out all the junk they have collected in various corners. So it is not an issue if we go away for 3 months.

Honestly, it isn't that much of a privilege. I lived in Australia for 16 years. Great public health system. I have been admitted through emergency numerous times, spend a few days for one thing or another. I have had knee surgery and cancer surgery. I have never received a bill for any hospital treatments. In 2 years if I still lived there, I would qualify for the free public pension system. After our wedding at the end of August 1017, we filed for a spouse visa and visitor visa for Australia. My wife was in Australia on September 21. If I/we wanted to leave Thailand that is where we would go.

 

[Sparkle Sparkle 914]

15 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

So, does that mean you can be any of those and slip on through?

1. Thats why you submit police reports and go through vetting

 

17 minutes ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

I have had knee surgery and cancer surgery. I have never received a bill for any hospital treatments. In 2 years if I still lived there, I would qualify for the free public pension system. After our wedding at the end of August 1017, we filed for a spouse visa and visitor visa for Australia. My wife was in Australia on September 21. If I/we wanted to leave Thailand that is where we would go.

2. Then maybe you both should reconsider moving to the USA. Australia is obviously better for both of you.

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

1. Thats why you submit police reports and go through vetting

 

2. Then maybe you both should reconsider moving to the USA. Australia is obviously better for both of you.

You didn't read my original post. We were only asking for a visitor visa. Nowhere did I mention moving to the US. Just think after 17 years, I should spend some time with my mother, kids and grandkids for a bit once a year or so.

[Sparkle Sparkle 914]

1 minute ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

You didn't read my original post. We were only asking for a visitor visa. Nowhere did I mention moving to the US. Just think after 17 years, I should spend some time with my mother, kids and grandkids for a bit once a year or so.

Am sorry, I did read your post....but what I meant is that Australia is obviously better than the US having the conditions you mentioned in mind.... I know your wife is seeking a US visa and I hope she gets it...Somehow I thought Australians were allowed in without a visa?....Covid times have changed alot

[rickbechard@gmail 5]

5 minutes ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

Am sorry, I did read your post....but what I meant is that Australia is obviously better than the US having the conditions you mentioned in mind.... I know your wife is seeking a US visa and I hope she gets it...Somehow I thought Australians were allowed in without a visa?....Covid times have changed alot

That's ok. Hard to get all the details down without writing a novel. She only lasted 15 months in Australia and decided she like being near her family more. So she did not complete the 4 years to citizenship. What she found, which most Thais don't know, is that in America and Australia and pretty much every western country, most people live payday to payday. Yes, nice salaries, but nice big prices to soak it all up. Taxes take care of the rest.

 

America should be able to have a similar health system to Australia. My daughter has ACA. Took her son to emergency. Cost her $500. 

 

Australians have to go online and apply for an ESTA, same as Americans do to go to Australia. 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

I understand you’re upset, but you’re missing the point. Spouse of a US citizen can apply to adjust status immediately on arrival. “Applying to immigrate” via i130 takes 12-18 months to get an immigrant visa. It’s nothing to do with illegal immigration, it’s about misrepresented intent to jump the line, with no consequences for spouses of USCs to do so. US law requires that there is a presumption of immigrant intent that the applicant has to overcome to be granted a visit visa, and it is harder, not easier, for spouses of citizens to clear this bar for reasons mentioned above. 
 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

3 hours ago, rickbechard@gmail said:

As for security questions, not a single one of those is in the I130 form. So, does that mean you can be any of those and slip on through? 

They are all on the DS260 that needs to be filled in to get an immigrant visa, plus fbi background checks are run. I130 is just the first step in a long process, and it is not a visa application. It just establishes a qualifying family relationship for a visa. The ds260 is the actual visa application form. 
 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by SusieQQQ